Blog
Bio
The Technician
No Imperfections Noted
The Jeff and Casey Show
Jeff and Casey Time
Casey Muratori
Seattle, WA
A World Without Sports or Commercials
"If front wasn't working, you gotta go backwards."
Original air date: August 25th, 2014
Subscribe. If you’d like to have the latest episode of The Jeff and Casey Show delivered fresh to your computer every Monday, you can check out our list of RSS feeds and other subscription options here.
Transcript
Casey:
Ocho Cinco…
Jeff:
Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Jeff & Casey Show.
Casey:
Hello, and welcome to the Jeff & Casey Show. So to start off, Jeff…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Again, we have been trying to legitimately… Last week, I feel like we made progress in the topics pile.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
We made positive forward progress.
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
And so, we’re trying to keep that momentum going. Ride the wave…
Jeff:
As it will…
Casey:
Yeah, as they say in movie business. So let’s just go right into it.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
Let’s just go right into it and say put mentally, if you can… Put yourself, close your eyes… Are closing your eyes?
Jeff:
I’m actually closing my eyes.
Casey:
Close your eyes. Imagine. Use all of your focus and mental agility, which I know you possess great amounts of imagination, Jeff. You are a font of imaginative creativity.
Jeff:
I don’t like where this is going.
Casey:
Imagine yourself at a party.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
You are at a party, okay? You are having a grand old time. Maybe it’s one of your fancy New York parties that you go to now. 2 people are having a conversation that you can overhear.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
There are plenty of seating opportunities. There’s seats, stools, there’s plenty of things they could be sitting on but instead, they are sitting on the floor. Right near some chairs, just sitting on the floor, having a conversation. Good/No Good? It’s from Hamish Todd…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
One of our classic Good/No Good-ers, in fact.
Jeff:
Okay. Conversation-wise, no good. They’re not gonna be talking about anything you want to hear.
Casey:
Okay. So you…
Jeff:
Comfort-wise, I’m a fan of sitting on the floor.
Casey:
Oh, really?
Jeff:
I eat on the floor, generally.
Casey:
You do?
Jeff:
I call them floor eggs. I eat my eggs on the floor.
Casey:
What? Really?
Jeff:
I do. Every morning, I eat floor eggs. It’s been driving my mom crazy.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But that’s a little bit because when I get up…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It takes me a while to get going. I don’t want… This isn’t fun time with Jeff…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Breakfast…
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
Breakfast is Jeff sits on the floor…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And hunches over and eats his eggs quietly.
Casey:
Why don’t you sit at a table?
Jeff:
Because they’re floor eggs. You sit at the floor and eat your eggs.
Casey:
Okay. I know they’re called floor eggs but you’re calling them that because you are sitting on the floor.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
The eggs do not cause the sitting on the floor.
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
It’s the other way around. So why did you decide the first time to sit on the floor and eat the eggs?
Jeff:
I don’t know. I’ve sat that way for a decade at least.
Casey:
Are you serious?
Jeff:
Yes, I always sit on the floor for breakfast.
Casey:
You just like to stay low?
Jeff:
I stay low, uh-huh.
Casey:
Now, you’re a tall individual. So is this your way of getting in touch with the ground at the beginning of the day?
Jeff:
It’s probably so I stay… Keeping it real…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So like, I…
Casey:
Where the little people sit?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Where the little people are… You want to stay in touch with the 1%?
Jeff:
But, no, I feel like that conversation’s going to be terrible.
Casey:
Okay, now, why is that? Couldn’t it just be conversation between two people who, like yourself, enjoy sitting on the floor?
Jeff:
No, because I don’t sit down to talk. I only sit down to eat eggs.
Casey:
So if someone was talking with you, you’d stand back up again?
Jeff:
Yeah. If somebody tried to engage with me, I’d be like, “Let’s go sit at the table.”
Casey:
“Alright, let’s go to the table.”
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
It’s like solitary time.
Casey:
What did you think that the two people would be talking about? You seem like you had…
Jeff:
I feel like you’d be talking… You’d be down there talking about sandals. Like..
Casey:
Oh, okay. Alright.
Jeff:
You’d be talking about that.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
You’d be talking about…
Casey:
I figured the first words out of their mouth would be like, “So, my acupuncturist is really good.” That was what went in my mind when I thought of 2 people sitting on the floor talking is like… Yeah…
Jeff:
Let me show you this.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
I have flat arches.
Casey:
“Oh, you do Sun Pose? I do Sun Pose, as well.”
Jeff:
Dawn told me a funny story at a party last night…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Where there was a guy that was kinda hitting on her.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And he was not really good…
Casey:
You weren’t in New York last night.
Jeff:
No, no. It was a work party.
Casey:
So, you mean she told you about a party last night?
Jeff:
Yes, sorry.
Casey:
Not at a party last night.
Jeff:
I didn’t this happen.
Casey:
Right. Okay. Yeah.
Jeff:
So anyway, he’s been hitting on her all night and she’s just like, “Ah, whatever…”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Ignoring him… But while he was danc--… So there was dancing and they’re at a bar…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And she’s sitting at the bar.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
He would dance right behind her on the bar and keep bumping her with…
Casey:
On the bar?
Jeff:
No, no. He’s on the edge of the dance floor bar area…
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
But keeps bumping into her with his butt like… Back dancing…
Casey:
Oh, yeah. He was backing into her?
Jeff:
Kind of backing into her.
Casey:
You gotta back into it.
Jeff:
Backing into her…
Casey:
That’s the thing.
Jeff:
And I was like, “So, did it work?” And she was like, “No. It didn’t.” So…
Casey:
So here’s the thing, I mean, if I may, there are only really 2 primary sides to a human. So if front isn’t working, you gotta go backwards.
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
That’s the logical conclusion. If front wasn’t working, you’ve got to back into it.
Jeff:
He tried that… Well, there’s 4 directions, like…
Casey:
You could sidle in.
Jeff:
If you face the person…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And try to talk to them and it’s not working…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Then you try turning around.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And then you wait for them to turn around…
Casey:
Oh, right, there’s a… There’s 4…
Jeff:
And then you… There’s 4 directions.
Casey:
But you can’t control… There’s only 2 directions you can control.
Jeff:
Yes, that’s right.
Casey:
Because they can still go however they want…
Jeff:
Well, no, but you can kinda wait…
Casey:
Until [inaudible 5:02] and pounce?
Jeff:
And then pounce. Right.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s like… And forward…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Alright. So people having a conversation on the floor, no good?
Jeff:
No good.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So again, I want you to sort of use your mental facilities because as you know, Good/No Good is about putting yourself…
Jeff:
In the situation…
Casey:
In the situation…
Jeff:
Having empathy, yes…
Casey:
And then making a judgment about what it happening… So imagine yourself in the situation where you have entered a store in which browsing is a possibility. So you are going to a store, not like a tanning salon where there’s only one thing you can do, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
But in a store that has merchandise or things available that you can peruse… But the people who are working at this store would like to follow you around and watch what you are looking at before you buy them.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Now, they’ve not necessarily commented but they’re looking. Good/No Good?
Jeff:
Now, the easy thing to say is No Good.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Like, there’s a lot of… I mean, there’s a lot of sketches about like, “Can I help you? Can I help you? Can I help you?”
Casey:
Right. Right. Right. Yeah. In this case, the thing that made this Good/No Good interesting was that they actually literally just said “watching you”.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
The exact text is “having the shop assistants follow you around and watching you when you check the items before buying them”. He didn’t even say they engage because I think I asked you before about engagement. And this is like… This is a tough… Of all Good/No Good’s we’ve had, this one is particularly difficult because I don’t know what he’s getting at here.
Jeff:
I think I’m gonna call that good.
Casey:
Holy shit.
Jeff:
And here’s why, alright?
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I think it’s good…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Because I imagine myself in a situation where I’m looking around…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
At stuff…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And I get confused…
Casey:
You do.
Jeff:
And there’s a lot of stuff… And usually, if it’s a closed place, there’s music playing…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Sometimes there’s even lights in these fancy places…
Casey:
Right. Yep.
Jeff:
I might go straight up to the women’s clothing…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And start, like, “Oh, this shirt’s probably fine.”
Casey:
Right. It would fit you.
Jeff:
Yeah. And I’m a thin person.
Casey:
You are.
Jeff:
And it would just be, like, a plunging neck or something…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
When I got home…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
I think they should be watching out for you.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I think they should be just like…
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
“Are you buying something for your girlfriend?”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
You’d be like, “Oh, shit. Are you serious?”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And then I’d go over there.
Casey:
So you also would like them to maybe approach you with a non-accusatory phrase that lets you know you’re in the fucking women’s section? Like that one you just said was a perfect example. “Oh, can we help you find something for your wife or girlfriend,” right?
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Instead of, like, “Yo, idiot, you’re in the women’s section,” and you’re like…
Jeff:
You could… I wouldn’t even mind that, to be perfectly honest. I just don’t want to buy it by accident.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I just need help at places where there’s… So there’s two things I’ll say about this.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I had a mental breakdown at a furniture store once…
Casey:
You did?
Jeff:
Oh, I had a full meltdown.
Casey:
I did not know that.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I’d remember this.
Jeff:
Dawn took me to go look at furniture. And I was like, “I don’t like buying furniture…”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
“Why don’t we hire a designer?”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And she’s like…
Casey:
And you weren’t kidding when you said you didn’t like it, apparently.
Jeff:
So I got there and they’re starting to bring fabric samples of this thing…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And I finally, like… I went into full Rainman, rocking my head like…
Casey:
Are you serious?
Jeff:
“I just want to go.” And like, just to the lady…
Casey:
You’re like, “I’m sorry. I need to leave right now. I need to leave right now.”
Jeff:
So… Yeah. Because I hate having to envision something…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Like, “Here’s a couch…”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
“Envision it not brown but gray…”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
“And not on a green rug but a black rug…”
Casey:
Right. “And the surface texture is not gonna be this way…”
Jeff:
“It’s different and…”
Casey:
“It’s gonna be smoother…”
Jeff:
“But it’s okay. Here’s a 6-inch square for you to see what it’s gonna be like.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Right?
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
In a book that kind of folds out so you don’t even… You can’t even really… It’s just bent…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
The book is full of fabric samples…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Of all that they can put on there.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And they kind of like… And pull it out and then have you look at it. I prefer a full-service shopping experience…
Casey:
I see.
Jeff:
Where, like, they’re like, “This is what you should get, sir.”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
They ask me a few questions and they just say, “This is it.” Don’t even… Don’t look at everything here.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
Do not browse… [inaudible 9:34] I’m like… So if I go in there and they’re looking at me and I look lost, I want them to come up and say, “What do you need?” And I’m like, “I need a jacket and I need a shirt for a thing tonight…”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
“It’s semi-fancy…”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
“And I don’t know what to get.”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And they just tell me what to get. Now, yes, you get… Occasionally, you get the rare love…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It happens.
Casey:
Oh, it happened. I remember.
Jeff:
But it is the price you pay…
Casey:
You’d rather have that than the alternative.
Jeff:
The uncertainty is so stressful for me.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And here’s the reason exactly why. Psychologically, it’s better for me if I buy something that somebody told me to buy and it sucks because I go, “They’re an idiot.”
Casey:
It’s their fault.
Jeff:
It’s their fault.
Casey:
You can externalize the blame whereas if you bought it…
Jeff:
If it’s me and I put it in and it’s like, “Oh, my God. It’s purple in this room…”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Like, it’s all on me. There’s no one else to blame.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So I want that.
Casey:
So there’s a fear of failure almost that you can avoid by knowing that there is someone else responsible for this mistake?
Jeff:
Yeah, because I’m not the type of person that, when they fail, that I go, “Oh, well, shucks…”
Casey:
Okay, you can’t handle it? You can’t handle it.
Jeff:
No, I’d just be like, “You know what? I’m wearing this fucking shirt anyway.”
Casey:
Wow. So if it’s a hair shirt, literally… It’s like a hair shirt…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You’re putting on a shirt that reminds you of how you have sinned…
Jeff:
Yes, that’s exactly…
Casey:
And that… Right.
Jeff:
And so, I don’t like that.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So I prefer a situation where I walk in, if I start browsing, you come in and help me. Please help me.
Casey:
This is interesting. So, I have a different problem with shopping for, say, furniture.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Which is that, for me, shopping for furniture is like one of the most depressing experiences because I actually have the opposite problem. I look at something… I look at this place wherever. . .
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
The thing I’m shopping for, the apartment, let’s say… I know exactly what it should look like. I can tell you exactly what I want in here down to the millimeter, what I want in here.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
And so, when I go shopping…
Jeff:
You can’t find that.
Casey:
It is just an exercise in finding the thing that is the least shitty approximation for the thing I actually wanted.
Jeff:
Right. Okay.
Casey:
Right? Which fucking blows.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You just go there and you’re like, “Yep, this is a couch that has 50 things wrong with it that I can tell you right now what they should’ve been,” and it’s like…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
“I can’t have that thing.” Now, I have had one time (one time in the history of life) when that didn’t happen to me. And that was in Japan.
Jeff:
Oh…
Casey:
So in Japan, I went to a place called Toyo Kitchen Space. That’s what it’s called.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I was just in Kyoto, walking around, it was Ginger and I… We’re walking around. I don’t know why we went in there but the just went because she likes design shops and stuff like that. So we just went into this place called Toyo Kitchen Space. And it’s like… We have here… Now, if you go into a kitchen store, like a one of those…
Jeff:
You’re talking like a….
Casey:
Kind of like a high end kitchen store. You know the kind I’m talking about.
Jeff:
Okay, Williams-Sonoma?
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
Okay. Sur La Table?
Casey:
No. The kinds that sell the furniture. So, you know when you go into one of those places…
Jeff:
Like dishwashers? What’s the furniture?
Casey:
I’m trying to think of how to explain it. So in Seattle… Maybe they don’t have these out here in Kirkland or something… In Seattle, there’s a number of these places, and I forget what their names are but they’re basically like these high end European sort of places. You go in and they’re like, “Oh, let’s show you all… Here’s the fancy tub and the fixtures for the tub…”
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
“And here’s the kitchen sink and the different faucets for the kitchen sink…” And this sort of…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
You know what I’m talking about?
Jeff:
Okay, sure.
Casey:
Have you ever seen a place like this?
Jeff:
Yeah, I’ve seen and walked around.
Casey:
They’re like, you go in and you have… You have a discussion with the person about planning the kitchen that’s right for you.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
There’s a… You sit down in a little counter, Jeff, and you talk to them about the possibilities for a kitchen. You know what I’m talking about?
Jeff:
They’re not really selling sinks there. They are demo spaces.
Casey:
It’s a fucking kitchen experience.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
You know what I’m talking about.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
If you’ve been in this store, you know what I’m talking about. If you haven’t, there’s no way you’re gonna understand it unless you fucking go in one of these.
Jeff:
Alright. I’m with you.
Casey:
Right? “And by the way, the faucet’s $5,000.”
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Let’s just get that out in the open. You’re not getting out of here with a faucet less than $5,000.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
This kitchen will cost as much as your car. That’s just the way that it goes, right?
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
So anyway, there’s these places in Seattle. You go in there and there’s not… You don’t want anything from these. They’re crap.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
You go in and it’s like a $5,000 faucet where the person hasn’t thought about the fact that having the nozzle on the faucet higher means that when you wash the fucking dish, the water will go everywhere.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Like, they haven’t even done basic fucking ergonometric design for this kitchen.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So that’s what I expect when I go into one of these stores is just crap, like high-priced crap.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Toyo Kitchen Space, totally fucking different. Toyo Kitchen Space is like walking into the mothership that I imagine is what dropped me on this planet in the first place. It was amazing. Like, I walk in and they have like a demo sink there. And it’s like they fucking worked out everything about how a sink should be. It’s like they took… They were like, “Oh, you know what, most of the time, what you do with sinks, right, is you’re preparing things or washing dishes.” So they’re like… They worked it out so there are these plates that you just kind of like slot into a notch… It’s a giant basin, first of all, which is what I always want for a sink…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Because that’s what you… These fucking separated sinks where one side’s higher…
Jeff:
Yeah, yeah, yeah…
Casey:
There’s all this crap, like, this just sucks. No. It’s a giant basin. And then, there’s these plates you can slot in and they slide back and forth in the sink laterally. And they take up maybe a quarter or a third of the sink in total. Right?
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
And there’s multiple layers of them so they can slide… You can leave them in and they all would slide over to the side and telescope into each other, basically. And they each have different surfaces that are good for certain things. So there’s one that’s slotted so you can work on it and it will just drip through to the sink below…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
But it’s like a working surface for you, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
There’s other ones that are made so that they could hold dishes and stuff… It’s just like… You’re like, “Holy shit, it’s like a workspace for my cooking.”
Jeff:
Right. Okay.
Casey:
You’re just like, “Holy shit.” The nozzle is super positional, it can hold itself down low so you could wash stuff without having it fucking spray all over the place. The nozzle can be below the level of the sink line. It was like… It was amazing. I was like, “This is fucking amazing.”
Jeff:
Could you buy one here?
Casey:
I don’t know but I took and scanned all of their materials. Like, if I ever have a house, I will buy all of my kitchen supplies from this place…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Even if it means going to Japan to shop for them…
Jeff:
And then shipping them back…
Casey:
Because they were so fucking awesome compared to the crap that you see here.
Jeff:
And everything was like that?
Casey:
Yeah, everything was like… Well, no. They also had some, just like, kitchen tables that were whatever… Like, they also had just some… But their…
Jeff:
But they did stoves and all that? Or is it mostly plumbing?
Casey:
So, I didn’t… So, one of the problems is I could only directly relate to the things that were obvious because I can’t really read Japanese.
Jeff:
Oh, right.
Casey:
Kanji or anything like this… So things like a stove are really hard for me to evaluate in any particular way.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
It was really difficult to tell whether a stove was good or not. And one of the other problems, too, is, of course, that like… I suppose this is difficult since I don’t know how much stuff in Japan is even fitted for…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Gas in that way…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Earthquakes probably make that annoying, too, and so on. So yeah, it’s…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s tough to say. But the stuff that I did play with was just fucking awesome.
Jeff:
That’s crazy.
Casey:
But anyway…
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
Alright… So that has nothing to do with the Good/No Good.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So one more for you to imagine…
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
And this one doesn’t really have as much of a lead in that I can do. Normally, we have sort of a mental projection…
Jeff:
This is just a situation Good/No Good…
Casey:
Imagine in your head, if you will…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Close your eyes. Picture yourself. You are going to go… You’ve decided… You’ve made the decision…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
To go watch a sporting event. You’re going to spectate, Jeff.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
You’re going to spectate. And you go to a competition where there’s a number of events such as the 100-meter dash…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
These sorts of things… But everyone in it is, for example, missing their legs. Paralympics…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Good/No Good?
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Chuck V. asks, “Paralympics, Good/No Good?” And he was not specific. I don’t even know what about the Paralympics, like the fact that they exist, would you like to watch them… I have no idea. All I know is, “Paralympics, Good/No Good?”
Jeff:
Okay. I’m gonna say Paralympics…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
I’m gonna do it from my perspective because that’s the easiest thing…
Casey:
Right. It’s just you. Straight Jeff Roberts.
Jeff:
I’m gonna split this.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Anything where the person is augmented…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Good.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Anything where they’re just overcoming natural problems…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Or just, like, their issue…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
No good.
Casey:
Alright. I got it. I understand.
Jeff:
I want to see guys run on robot legs…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And blades…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
All about that.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I do not want to see… I don’t really care to see, like, the halfsies swim or whatever that is where… They’re good swimmers…
Casey:
Okay. Alright…
Jeff:
But they’re not…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I want to see some augmentation
Casey:
So if they were people who ran on their stumps for 100 meters, no good. If they’ve got robot legs, great.
Jeff:
Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Right.
Casey:
I see.
Jeff:
If they ran on their hands…
Casey:
Right, not interesting?
Jeff:
No good.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Yeah. But if they have robot legs…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Or blades…
Casey:
So you want to see the bionic man. You want to see Robocop. You want to see like, “We rebuilt this dude better than a human…”
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
“When he lost his legs.”
Jeff:
Yes, exactly.
Casey:
Okay. Yes, alright.
Jeff:
I want to see that kind of thing.
Casey:
You want, like, Cyborg Olympics?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Is what you basically…
Jeff:
I actually would like that even if they weren’t paralyzed… Like, if they just had Usain Bolt on…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Kangaroo shoes…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Right? So he’s, like, literally, like, crossing…
Casey:
Yeah. Boing, boing, boing…
Jeff:
Yeah, exactly.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Yeah, I want to see that kind of thing.
Casey:
Yeah. Okay. Yeah, Augmented Olympics. I like that.
Jeff:
Yeah, Augmented Olympics.
Casey:
We already have that… I mean, people may poopoo this but what the fuck? You don’t ski down barefoot.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You put on fucking giant ski things to make you go down the hill faster…
Jeff:
Yes. Yeah, we just…
Casey:
Why don’t we have that for everything?
Jeff:
Yeah, exactly.
Casey:
Why don’t we have roller-skating the 100 meters? It’s faster.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I actually don’t know if it’s faster. 100 meters, you probably wouldn’t be able to get up to speed quick enough.
Jeff:
But certainly, the 5,000 meters… When those guys are going around on the skates in the circles, they would go much faster.
Casey:
They need a 100 meters anything goes. So it’s like, strap a rocket to you, whatever…
Jeff:
Yeah, whatever you dare do.
Casey:
We just want to see how fast you can get 100 meters in a roughly straight line. Like, you can’t be wiggly.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
You gotta go straight.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
But you can do anything else that you want.
Jeff:
Anything’s allowed.
Casey:
That, I want to see. It’s like an episode of “Jackass” or something…
Jeff:
I mean, the general thing of just me being uncomfortable around situations where I have no…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Psychological basis to handle…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It’s like, me watching from the stands, I would feel isolated from it, right?
Casey:
Because you’re removed enough…
Jeff:
But if I was, say, at a Blackjack table at an amputee convention…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
I would lose my mind
Casey:
Okay. Okay. Okay.
Jeff:
It would be nuts.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Nuts.
Casey:
You’re like, “I think the stump is touching me.”
Jeff:
I would be like…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Yeah… And then when he put the stump down to lift up his 2 cards in poker…
Casey:
Right. Yeah…
Jeff:
I’d be like…
Casey:
Right. Hit me…
Jeff:
Ahhh… Like, the amount of brain energy would be focused on all that stuff versus the cards.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Like, they’d take me for everything I have.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
So that may be what he was trying to get to…
Casey:
“Cost me an arm and a leg…”
Jeff:
Of like… Of the psychological problem of me dealing with, like, that which, yes, is crazy.
Casey:
Well, I think that’s it for Good/No Good’s. We. . . You know, people don’t send those in very much anymore, which is interesting.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I would say.
Jeff:
You are wearing your “No Good” shirt.
Casey:
I am wearing my “No Good” shirt.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
So I think we’re gonna try now, ‘cos we’ve got 38 minutes here…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
We’re gonna try a Topics speed round…
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
Best we can do. [ Chi Yu, Wonchon’s ] wife…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Meditation. She wants us to talk about meditation.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Do you want me to let you start?
Jeff:
Well, we’ve talked about before personally before. . .
Casey:
Yeah, personally but never on the show.
Jeff:
Right. Right. There’s a lot that meditation encompasses, right?
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Certainly, quiet thinking time…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Is very important. At least for me.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Like, I have to think… I have to have quiet and then just be able to think.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Which would fall under the meditation umbrella.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
The mystical, like, chant, “think of nothing”, imagine…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
“Focus on your breath”…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
All fucking goddamn nonsense… Like…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Certainly, being aware of using some of the techniques to calm yourself down when you’re angry where you’re like, “Okay…”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
“Just breathe. Don’t go punch the guy.”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Like, that, I’m totally behind because you have chemical processes…
Casey:
You don’t necessarily do it but you’re behind it…
Jeff:
You have chemical processes that you sometimes have to keep under control…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
That being aware of them and mentally focusing on them helps…
Casey:
Right. In fact, I was just reading about that in the Ocho Cinco book before you came in.
Jeff:
Oh, really?
Casey:
Yeah, that’s what I was reading. He had a section where he was talking about how he got his first domestic violence report.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
It was…
Jeff:
His first? Yeah…
Casey:
I don’t know if it was his only…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Or his first or what exactly…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
But yeah…
Jeff:
Yeah. Well, we’ve all been there, you know, where you’re just like…
Casey:
No, we haven’t but some of us have, it’s true.
Jeff:
No, so the… But the separate thing…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Which we’ve talked with John about because he is a fan of the longer term meditation…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Up to weeks where you’re, like, spending a lot of time…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
I don’t see a lot of… I think it’s a lot of silliness.
Casey:
So here’s what I will say about meditation. My preference…
Jeff:
It is very slow masturbation, in my opinion. Get that shit over with.
Casey:
My preference, meditation-wise, would be if we had a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. That would be my preference with meditation because I’ll tell you what. I don’t really care if people meditate or not.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It doesn’t matter…
Jeff:
Doesn’t hurt us.
Casey:
It doesn’t matter to me at all. But here’s the thing. If you want to tell me the fact that I don’t understand meditation, we have a problem because you don’t know what I do and don’t understand about mental things. We can never be in each other’s heads.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Right? So you pretending that the reason that I don’t want to go meditate for several hours or something is because I just don’t understand what it’s like/how important it is/whatever… It’s just annoying.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Like, so let’s get past that and just accept the fact that, like, let’s not talk about this. If I wanted to meditate, I would.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
The fact that I’m not should suggest to you that maybe…
Jeff:
I think it’s retarded.
Casey:
I don’t need to understand it in the way that you think that I don’t understand it or I already do and don’t think it’s worthwhile.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
That’s what I would say.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So “don’t ask, don’t tell” would be my policy on meditation.
Jeff:
Yeah, and also meditation..
Casey:
It’s DADT.
Jeff:
Yeah, meditation rapidly gets into the… Even aside from the people who just do it like, “Oh, I find it to be calming and, like, I find it to be good for when I’m in stressful situations,” whatever…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But meditation rapidly gets into the metaphysical nonsense of like, “No, no, no. I felt myself drifting away and floating…”
Casey:
“To the astral plane. We’re in the astral plane…”
Jeff:
And you’re just like, “No, you didn’t do anything. Every single bit of that is horse shit. And if you believe it, then you’re borderline psychotic in my opinion.”
Casey:
I don’t know about any of that and I don’t care. That’s my thing.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s like that is why I want a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, because I feel like…
Jeff:
I don’t mind a tell policy because if I hear that of someone, I’m like, I just automatically put them in this other bin. I slide the drawer open that’s labeled “Crazy People”, and I place them in and slide the drawer closed. And I will interact with them differently from then on because I’m like, “I don’t want to trigger the crazy to come out.
Casey:
So, I don’t think that’s true. And the reason I don’t think that’s true is because I do know people who I obviously do have respect for and do have conversations with who do do it. And so, I don’t feel like that’s… I basically think of it as just something like equivalent to some things that I do that they probably don’t appreciate or find are useful, right? So to me, it’s just like, yeah, it’s like, whatever… That’s a separate thing…
Jeff:
But I’m splitting the difference between… As soon as somebody says, “No, no, no, wait. You don’t understand. When I meditate, I can leave my body and I can feel myself rising in the collective unconscious,” I want them to tell me that shit because I want them in the crazy drawer.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Because I don’t ever want to lend them money or, like, anything where I’m like…
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
We have to have a rational…
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
Relationship… Like, I know a hundred people that are crazy and I don’t have rational relationships with them.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
It’s like, oh, you’re just hanging out with them and wacky and silly and drinking, whatever…
Casey:
Okay. Alright.
Jeff:
But you don’t ever get in a relationship like…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
We’re never gonna move in together.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Or we’re never going to buy a car and share it. Like our situation… We won’t buy a co-op. Like, these kinds of situations where we have to be adults together…
Casey:
Right, okay.
Jeff:
Because they’re in a different world than I am. They’re in the crazy drawer. And so…
Casey:
Well, I guess. But also… I mean, I feel like there’s a little bit of… I mean, it would be great if you always only interact with people who are 100% concrete about everything or something like this. But I don’t know how realistic that is. I mean, let’s put it this way. Hopefully we can both agree. If you were really into meditation, that’s certainly no worse or no different than thinking that God exists or something.
Jeff:
Oh, sure.
Casey:
Right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So you’re talking about 90% of the world or something like that…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Right?
Jeff:
Oh…
Casey:
So at some point, you kind of have to do business dealings… You can’t not do business [inaudible 28:22] in the world.
Jeff:
I have the exact same thing for that which is you can believe that God exists.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
You can pray to him.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You can do whatever you want.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
As soon as you believe He is talking back to you…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Into the drawer.
Casey:
Really? Okay. Okay. I see. Alright.
Jeff:
Because that gets crazy quick.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So…
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
Anyway…
Casey:
I’m just saying there’s… Like I said, if the mother ship comes and takes me back to my home planet someday, I will be the happiest person. I really will be. But until then…
Jeff:
Because there’ll be the best sinks.
Casey:
This is the thing is, like, I think that’s the part that people don’t understand about narcissism is I really would be happy in a world of me. They think that’s not true. They’re like, “Oh, no. You would… You know? I mean like, you would…” It’s like, “No, honestly. If everyone was me, I’d be the happiest fucking person. I would be so fucking delighted. That is what that means. That’s the difference…”
Jeff:
“Hey, Casey.” “How are you doing, Casey?” “I’m doing fine, Casey.”
Casey:
Exactly.
Jeff:
“Hey, Casey.” “Casey…”
Casey:
That’s the difference between egotism and narcissism. If you’re an egotist, you will have a big problem in a world full of you.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
But if you’re just a narcissist, you’ll be very fucking happy. And that’s the thing. I’ve never really been an egotist. I’ve always been a narcissist. And I feel like that’s a good way to go because we can all, us narcissists, we can have our own thing…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Planet of us? Works great. Everyone’s happy.
Jeff:
That’s awesome.
Casey:
Yes, things are maybe not going that great because we have a lot of faults and they cause problems but we love each other. We love each other.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
That’s the thing.
Jeff:
Like, you have this ocean that no one gets near.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Right? The ocean’s…
Casey:
Yeah. That’s true. There’s no travel by sea.
Jeff:
Really terrible. “We have no idea what’s over there.”
Casey:
There’s no travel by sea.
Jeff:
No, nothing.
Casey:
Everything was the… Tigris and Euphrates… When the continents split apart, wherever the people were, that’s where they were.
Jeff:
That’s where they were
Casey:
Like, that’s it… You’re not changing…
Jeff:
Casey-town…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Is isolated.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
I would love… That’s a good mental… Like, the World of Casey would be such an interesting… There’d be no sports what an amazing world that would be. A world free of sports? And no commercials. The world would be so cool. No sports or commercials… I’m getting excited just thinking about how awesome that world would be, right? That would be great.
Jeff:
That’s awesome.
Casey:
Okay. So moving on from meditation…
Jeff:
Okay. Because we’re speed rounding.
Casey:
Yes. Daan Nijs… I don’t know how to pronounce that at all. “More extensive process design in daily life.” And he’s referring here, I believe, to the thing where I was talking about how I had different laundry baskets set up for quick swapping…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Do you know what I’m talking about? So he’s wondering if we have any other tips, like ways to optimize things you do in daily life that was kind of a programmer-y, sort of an algorithmic way…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And I don’t know because I felt like we sort of said the ones that we have. I’m trying to think if I’ve got any [ other money ] in there. I don’t think I do.
Jeff:
Well, let me talk about… I can talk about something specific.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Which is, like, more of a way that you live.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
When you live around optimization.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And that is you will be placed occasionally in weird situations.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I am technically homeless right now.
Casey:
You are.
Jeff:
Because my other place sold before the new place is ready…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So I have 2 weeks.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And so, I’m going back to New York tonight.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But in the meantime, I had to stay at my mom’s.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Okay. And so, I’m in an unfamiliar environment with thing where I don’t know where anything is.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Okay? So I have to deal with that in the way… In my way, right?
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And so, there’s a whole bunch of stuff that isn’t the way I would like it.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Bedroom’s upstairs, washer and dryer downstairs… The fridge is downstairs. The sink’s… So there’s a lot of going up and down the stairs.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And so, what I found today… Like, when you called and said, “I’m already at RAD. You need to get here.” I’m like, “Shit. I’ve got to do a lot of stuff quickly.”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
You quickly plan out all of the things that you do on both floors…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
That you need to do to get ready…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Where the things are…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And so, I would do things like… Alright, first thing, I go into my bedroom and I get the socks and I set the socks in the bottom of the stairs. And from there, I go directly to the fridge and I get out the little supplements I take.
Casey:
I see. Yeah.
Jeff:
Then I go over to the sink, drink the things. Put the supplements into a different drawer, close that drawer.
Casey:
Right. Yeah.
Jeff:
Go back out there. On the way, my shoes… I pick up the shoes. I put the shoes back next to my socks.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I go back upstairs, put my clothes… Change out of jammies…
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
Go downstairs, grab the socks and shoes which are next to the mics…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And go out the door.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
As far as I can tell, there was no wasted effort that I would not have had to do things…
Casey:
You feel like you nailed it.
Jeff:
In an order that would have caused me to go up and down the stairs an extra time… So that’s one thing.
Casey:
[ Were you feeling pretty proud of that? ]
Jeff:
That was a good moment of Jeff.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Here’s a bad moment of Jeff last night. When I’m thinking about going to the airplane…
Casey:
Okay. Today?
Jeff:
Today. So you do the thing where you’re like, “I’m leaving at 9. I gotta be there at 8 or I gotta be there at 7…”
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
“That means I gotta leave here…”
Casey:
Ginger calls that the work back. Like, she does that, gotta do the work back…
Jeff:
Yeah. Okay, the work back. Right.
Casey:
She goes like, “Okay, [inaudible 33:43]” She’s the master at that. She’s always like, “Yes, we need to leave here at 7:32.”
Jeff:
Alright. I do the work back…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Because it’s like, it’s an optimization problem.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But like, I’m stressed out because there’s a lot of things that are in flux.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
There are a lot of things that are just like I don’t know, like…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
When we hadn’t decided when we were podcasting and all that stuff…
Casey:
Right. Yeah.
Jeff:
So I work it out. I’m like, alright, so we gotta [ eat ] at 5.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And then I go, “Okay, so the airplane leaves at 9…”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
“So, I gotta [ be at ] 8…” So I do the work back all again…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And like, okay, it’s 5. It’s at 5. It’s at 5.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
We start watching a TV show. About 15 minutes later, it’s like, “We gotta leave at 9…”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And I did the work back probably 9 times. My mom was like, “Why do you keep… You’ve done that and come up with 5. Like…”
Casey:
Just write down 5.”
Jeff:
“Like 6 times…” And I’m like, “It’s just… It’s just what I have to do to, like… It’s the only thing I can order right now.”
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
“Everything else is… I can’t… I have no idea what’s gonna happen between now and 5. So this, really thinking about how orderly that’s gonna be, is satisfying.”
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
“So just let me do it.” And I just continue. So that’s the bad part.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So I thought of one for this. I don’t know that I have that many. So one that I thought of is, when cooking, a lot of times, I will… If there’s recipes that I’d done multiple times, like things that I like to cook, I will start to try and optimize the number of things that are involved like the pots or utensils…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
To try and get it down to the smallest number of things…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Including weird shit like, “Oh, the pasta finishes so I put it out into the strainer but I make the sauce in the thing…”
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
“I gotta do that fast enough so the pasta doesn’t get cold. Then I put it back in the thing…” So I get it down to the one pot solution… If I can get things down to one pot, I’m usually pretty psyched, right, things like this sort of stuff…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Oh, wait, you used that spoon… There’s contamination already. Like, once that’s been in the sauce, it can’t be in this. So you always use this spoon in the sauce last and do the other thing with the spoon first.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
You can’t do the meat… If you do the meat after the vegetables, you don’t have to wash the knife…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
There’s like, all these things like that, right? So…
Jeff:
I did that when I was moving out on Tuesday.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
I was like, “Alright, I’ve got Tuesday morning, Tuesday night, Wednesday morning…”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
All I have to do is that. So I’m like, “Alright,” I pull one steak out of the thing for dinner…
Casey:
Okay. Yeah. Right.
Jeff:
I pull out… I have the eggs ready. I have an egg pan, my normal pan, 2 plates, 2 knives… No, I’m sorry. 2 paper plates…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
2 paper bowls for the eggs, 2 knives, 2 this… It’s perfectly planned out.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Everything else got packed up.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Cooked every… So I cooked the steak the first night and it becomes immediately obvious that I cannot cut the steak with the plastic knife. I’m like… And I’m not making any progress.
Casey:
You just gotta tear into it.
Jeff:
So I’m like, “Fuck.” And so… Yeah. So I pick it up…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And I’m doing it. It’s dripping everywhere…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So I have extra napkins…
Casey:
But you have. . . Okay.
Jeff:
And then I put that away.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Next morning, I go… And I go to make the coffee and I’m like, “I’ve left no cups.”
Casey:
Oh, whoops.
Jeff:
I forgot one of the steps!
Casey:
Yep. Yeah.
Jeff:
I optimized it right out.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So I had this… You remember the money drawer full of change?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
For like… I took that down to the Coinstar and it was awesome. I love Coinstar.
Casey:
Okay. Yeah.
Jeff:
But it was 2 huge cups full of money.
Casey:
You did not…
Jeff:
So I’m like. I don’t… So I…
Casey:
You didn’t drink out of that shit.
Jeff:
I dumped the change out.
Casey:
You don’t know what shit is in there. That’s why you got sick.
Jeff:
No. I washed it many times.
Casey:
You cannot wash away the stuff that was in there. There are things in there that mankind has never seen before.
Jeff:
I washed it.
Casey:
There’s shit in there that’s like…
Jeff:
No, it’s a plastic…
Casey:
[inaudible 37:29] doesn’t even know what it is.
Jeff:
It’s a plastic cup, by the way.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So I do the coffee. And the plastic cup kinda goes… And then I’m like… So I stop the coffee.
Casey:
This is not good.
Jeff:
And then do a little more coffee. Stop it. So the cup kind of did this weird, like, pottery thing…
Casey:
Oh, God. You need to spin it.
Jeff:
And then I drank it. Cleaned it out. Put the money back into that. So, yeah… It’s hard trying to… It’s hard, I think, sometimes when you are always trying to do that and you’re in a… And you’re not in your comfort zone.
Casey:
Right. Like anything with coding, you know…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You do something where the first… If it’s not a thing you do very often…
Jeff:
Right. Right.
Casey:
You’re kind of [inaudible 38:17] fuck it up.
Jeff:
It’s a C#. . . I had a C# kitchen situation.
Casey:
Yeah. So I’ll tell you one thing that’s bad process optimization-wise that I do a lot, like, way more often than I would prefer, which is that… And this is probably because in programming, I’m used to this not being a problem. In programming, right, like if I’m gonna make modifications to something, the existing one is still running. So, like, if I ship a version of my product, I can ship another version of the product and I don’t have to worry about it being running continuously the whole time.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I can just… You know… So the order in which I make changes is not that important. But that’s not how life works at all, right? So what I often find myself doing in life is I’ll use the programmer skill of thinking through all of the possibilities and selecting ones based on a set of criteria. It’s like, “Okay, I figure out what the optimal solution is, right?” So it’ll be something like, you know, “Oh, I worked all this stuff out,” and I’m like, “Okay, the optimal solution is,” right, like recently or whatever I’ll be like, “Okay, you know, I need to get office space. In the office space, I need this desk, this chair, this set of computers set up this way, like here…” I’ve got it all worked out. I’m like, “Okay, this is how this needs to be.” Now, I disregard the fact that that won’t be ready for, like, 2 months, right? In the meantime, a bunch of shit will happen like I sell my chair…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Because I don’t need the chair anymore. That’s not part of the end goal.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And then I have nothing to sit on.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
That is very, very common. Like, I don’t plan for the interim stages at all.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
It’ll just be like, “Yeah, why is Casey sitting on the floor, computing or whatever the fuck?”
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s because he neglected to think about the fact that until he actually got the office space, maybe he shouldn’t sell all of his office equipment…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Because he doesn’t need it anymore or something like this, right?
Jeff:
Yeah. That happens a lot.
Casey:
That is very common with me. Very, very common.
Jeff:
Yeah, because you think that… And I don’t know if this is programmer or engineer or just modern person. You think that everything happens instantly.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
So you’re like, “Oh, yeah. Get rid of that. We’ll get a new one.”
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And it’s like, “Oh, the new one doesn’t come for 6 months.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like, “Wait, that’s not a thing.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
They’re like, “No, you have to make it.” You’re like…
Casey:
It’s like, “No, I need it now. I got rid of my old one…”
Jeff:
“That’s not a thing. I don’t have anything to sit on.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
That’s very, very common for me.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And bad. Alright, so…
Jeff:
Okay. Next.
Casey:
Moving on. Richard [ Mitton ], in fact…
Jeff:
[ Mi Tong ]?
Casey:
[ Mitton ] would like to know if Jeff could bitch about WinRT some more.
Jeff:
Oh…
Casey:
I suspect that [ Mitton ] must’ve been bitten by RT himself and would like to vicariously rant through you, Jeff Roberts, because he doesn’t feel like he’s gotten enough of it yet.
Jeff:
Well… There’s so much…
Casey:
Now, I have never used WinRT so I can’t participate, unfortunately.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I’ve only heard that it’s horrible but I don’t actually know.
Jeff:
Well, and the awesome thing now…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Is the thing that bit me recently is somebody asked for an 8.1…
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
Version of the DLL…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And I’m like, “What are you talking about? Our DLL is the same.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And they’re like, “No.”
Casey:
Oh, no.
Jeff:
You have to now…
Casey:
Don’t be silly, Jeff.
Jeff:
Right. Nowadays…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
When you go to Windows 8.1, they changed the C runtime…
Casey:
Of course they did.
Jeff:
And all of the user files… You know, User32, the version of that…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I don’t know what it’s… Windows Assembly, I think it’s called.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
[ Is also version ].
Casey:
Oh, good. Yeah, good job, guys.
Jeff:
So you cannot ship a DLL. So I’m like, “Alright, fuck. Okay. So I just link with that.” They’re like, “No, no. It also requires Visual Studio 2013,” which is in Beta…
Casey:
Oh, good. Oh.
Jeff:
At the time. Maybe it’s released now.
Casey:
Good. Yeah.
Jeff:
I assume it is. It’s 14, so yeah… So I’m like, “Alright.” So I install that. Now, in A.1…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
They now don’t have a platform ST… I’m sorry. In the 2012, they don’t have a platform STK.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
It comes as part of Visual Studio.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
You can’t even select where it goes.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
It goes into Program Files.
Casey:
Right. It’s a good place for it.
Jeff:
So you need in your link line…
Casey:
Considering that it’s not a program…
Jeff:
And you need in your link line, like, Program Files…
Casey:
Yeah. Right.
Jeff:
X86…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Microsoft…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Microsoft STK’s…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Windows…
Casey:
Yep. . .
Jeff:
And these are so many slides, just…
Casey:
[ 7.0A or whatever the fuck, yeah… ]
Jeff:
And then it’s like, [ 7.0A ]…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And so I’m like, “Alright, fuck. That’s retarded but like, yes, my link line is now astronomically long.”
Casey:
Right. Yes.
Jeff:
So then I’m like, “Alright, in 8.1, I just go and set that to 1.” They’re like, “No, in 8.1, they changed the entire layout…”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
“Of that.” They’re like, “Okay, now it’s not under Windows. It’s like, Windows STK/Windows Store--…” They changed the whole outlet.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
You’re like, “Alright, that’s fucking retarded.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
“I don’t want to fucking deal with this. Fuck it.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Go to build up my stuff and it’s like, it fails now because it rewrites the directories where the other shit used to be. So like, the act of installing Visual Studio 2013…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Reorganizes the platform layers…
Casey:
Awesome.
Jeff:
Into a new format.
Casey:
Awesome.
Jeff:
So none of my shit ran.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So I’m like, “Goddamn it.” So I put all that back in there.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
All that.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Finish it all done.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Get it all finished. The entire DLL is identical except for, like, 3… The CodeGen changed a very few set of functions, 90% of a hex diff was identical. It was mostly just the, like… And my initial plan was I would take the Windows 8 one, write a program that just rewrote the thing…
Casey:
Oh, twiddles it, yeah.
Jeff:
But they changed it from Microsoft Library or Microsoft Runtime Library 1.2.Lib…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
[ Or ] DLL to Microsoft Library App. So they added letters.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So you couldn’t [ hex ] at it.
Casey:
You can’t just [inaudible 44:09] it.
Jeff:
Yeah, so… Great.
Casey:
Good job, guys.
Jeff:
So it’s actually a completely new project. You have to build them… Oops… I have to build them both. I had to go back, change the old one to build with that one, and yeah… They’re completely different for no reason. I didn’t… And remember, I’m not shipping it out.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
This isn’t like…
Casey:
It’s just a DLL. You just kind of link with…
Jeff:
This is a… And I have, like, 3 hooks to the outside world.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
I’ve had very minimal exposure.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
But it’s like, “Hey, I do need to create a thread…”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And that’s part of the thing that needs its version so… Yeah. Welcome to the shit.
Casey:
Fucking Microsoft…
Jeff:
Oh, it’s… No idea…
Casey:
And their controlled [ flight into frame. ]
Jeff:
Oh, there’s one more awesome thing.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And I haven’t fixed this yet.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Somewhere along the line, they changed the linker so that when you call… The linker is a sub-process that gets called from link.exe.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So if you call 10 links from 10 threads, which I do in our build system…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
They block because it all goes to the one link.
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
And you’re like, that sucks. You’re retarded. Email them. I’m like, “Why would you change this?”
Casey:
Why did they do that?
Jeff:
“All links used to happen simultaneously. Now, it’s like…”
Casey:
Why did they do that?
Jeff:
I have no idea. No idea.
Casey:
Fucking A, man.
Jeff:
So like, all of the links go through a link process.
Casey:
That makes no sense.
Jeff:
I even experimented with this, like, renaming the thing so that maybe I could get two of them. But, like, it launches a process that it then communicates…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
You’re like, “Alright, that’s retarded.” At least for things like Xenon and Durango, they get their own linkers so Windows overlaps with the other platforms.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But if you’re just building Windows, it’s really annoying. I just get right up to the link…
Casey:
Right, right, right…
Jeff:
And then it waits.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And I use Link-time code generator. Maybe if you don’t use that, it wouldn’t but who knows?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Anyway, the awesome thing that just changed is because they build different versions of the compiler and the linker…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
For every output. So there is a directory in [ VC Bin ], one that has CL link, all those tools for X86…
Casey:
Right. Okay.
Jeff:
There’s another directory for X64.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
There’s also an X64 that can build 32, you know, so you can build that. And then finally, there is [ arm ]. Link all that shits in there. So if I build…
Casey:
Why the fuck… That doesn’t make any goddamn sense.
Jeff:
Don’t get me started. They’re all completely separate executables.
Casey:
It’s CodeGen. Why would you need another…
Jeff:
No idea…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I have no idea. So the awesome thing here is now, when I run the [ arm ] at the same time as e Win32 is running…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
One time in 100… And I can’t get the right thing to happen enough to track down what’s happening…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
The [ arm ] one blocks on the X64 and I get this error of, like, the PDB for [ arm ] is unavailable because you’re using the X86 compiler, even though I’m like… I’m looking in process manager and I’m like, “No, it ran the [ arm ] one but it got linked and directed into the process that did the linking was the other one somehow.”
Casey:
Oh, fuck’s sake.
Jeff:
One time in a hundred. And so, I build. If I get it, I’m like, “Fuck.” And I do full build, just hit it again, and it happened. So yeah, it’s just amazing engineering all the way around.
Casey:
That company needs to fail out of this industry. They really need to fucking fail in this industry.
Jeff:
The thing of having multiple… Like, I can understand, like, you have 32 and 64-bit compilers, sure, because like… Not for the output but based on the host that you’re writing on.
Casey:
Yes. Yeah.
Jeff:
It makes no sense to have multiple ones for [ the gen ]…
Casey:
For the output. Yeah, makes no sense whatsoever.
Jeff:
Yeah, that’s like…
Casey:
That’s completely ridiculous.
Jeff:
Yes, it’s nuts.
Casey:
I mean, I guess… So the… Okay, I’m just trying to think of, like…
Jeff:
I assume it’s because, like, the X86 one has been so tweaked that nobody wants to touch it.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
So like, “Oh, that’s just… We just leave that one alone.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
But yeah, I have no idea.
Casey:
They’re probably because… You know, they’re like, “Well, to get this compilation speed up, it all needs to be tightly, you know, coupled through the whole pipeline. You’re like, “You guys know you’re the slowest compiler, right?” Like…
Jeff:
It’s bananas.
Casey:
Well, I guess they’re not the slowest. GCC is slower but still…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Clang fucking annihilates that, though.
Jeff:
Clang is crazy.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Clang, I always think something broke because it’s like, scrolls faster than it compiles.
Casey:
Right, it’s just like bang and you’re like, “Wait, that looks like 10 seconds in [ VC ],” and Clang is just like, you hit return and it’s done. And you’re like, “No, that’s just what happens when you’re not an idiot and you write the compiler.” Yeah.
Jeff:
Alright, next topic.
Casey:
Oh, Microsoft.
Jeff:
It’s worse. I’m actually gonna do a post on…
Casey:
Oh, WinRT sucking?
Jeff:
Windows 8 sometime soon.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Of like, “Here are the 10 things I think they should fix.” I have a list of 8 and I’m waiting for 2 more.
Casey:
Well, I still think that we need, like… Microsoft needs to go away. Let’s be honest. People need to be more serious about this. I say it all the time. People need to be more serious about them going away because if they don’t, we’re in big trouble. Like, if you keep allowing them to make decisions for the PC industry, there will be no PC industry. Like, I think that’s really actually pretty true.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I mean, nobody wants…
Jeff:
Linux is not ready yet.
Casey:
Nobody wants to…
Jeff:
Linux is another… I mean…
Casey:
I don’t even care about Linux. I just want people to understand, people to finally accept the fact, right, that somebody… That that… To see what is coming down the tunnel, right? I want people to understand that if we keep relying on Microsoft to deliver the PC platform, there will be no PC platform. As soon as people understand that… If they want to accept that and say that’s okay, that’s different than not accepting the fact that, “No, Microsoft will destroy the PC in not a lot of years if you let them.”
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Trust me. If nobody does anything about this, 10 years from now, there will be no… It will be just a thing that’s like, “Oh, you mean that thing that runs like, you know, plumbing inventory systems and stuff?”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
“And stuff like that? Yeah, oh, no. People, they don’t use PC’s, they use stuff from, like, Apple and stuff. They use Android. They use Chrome books, right? I mean, that’s what… They don’t… I don’t know what you’re talking about. Windows on a home computer? On a home computer? Is that a thing? Like, you mean like not a tablet that you dock into like your TV?” So like, seriously… And the reason for that is, like… It’s two-fold. One, because they’re just destroying the platform. I mean, Windows 8 is a disaster…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And you can’t even ship for it. It’s like, it’s just complete disaster. So forget about that, right? But the other reason is they’re not doing anything exciting. You need people to be shipping great things. Like, if it wasn’t for fucking Steam and shit, if it wasn’t for, like, people shipping games on the PC that people get excited about like DOTA or whatever the fuck or “League of Legends” and things like this, there’d be no more… You wouldn’t even have this fucking thing.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
There wouldn’t be graphics cards that people buy for $800. You think that shit exists if… Microsoft hasn’t shipped an exciting thing for PC in fucking 10 years.
Jeff:
I don’t think they need to ship the exciting thing. And I think they think they do.
Casey:
They need to enable it is my point.
Jeff:
Yes, they need to enable it.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And they don’t.
Casey:
They do the opposite.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
They handicap it.
Jeff:
They think they need to do the exciting thing and they’re not good at exciting. But they’re good enablers, I think.
Casey:
Used to be.
Jeff:
Used to be.
Casey:
Used to be.
Jeff:
Right. They got one time where, like, “No, this is a platform that’s…”
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
“The best one to develop for.”
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And they need to get back to the fact of, “We need to enable people instead of trying to do it ourselves because we end up with these stupid Windows 8 commercials…”
Casey:
Yeah. But I guess my point is I think they jumped the shark. I think the shark has been jumped. I don’t think there’s any way that good people could go back there and do that. I don’t think that’s possible anymore.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
That ship has sailed. When you see decisions like the Microsoft Store, like the Windows Store App… When you see decisions like that being made, you know the shark’s jumped. It got jumped.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So anyway, moving on from the fact that Microsoft will destroy the entire PC industry if nobody does anything about it, let’s go to Matthew Van Devender who simply says, “The inevitable virtual reality apocalypse…”
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I feel like we covered this.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Can we just say that we covered this? Because we said… You were arguing that everyone would end up just sitting in their VR drooling all day. I said that’s ridiculous.
Jeff:
Well, yeah… Well, what we should probably talk about, not today, because we don’t have enough time…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Is the really interesting [inaudible 52:51]
Casey:
You want to talk about [inaudible 52:52] okay.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Matthew, we will talk about that when we get to [inaudible 52:55]
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Stuart Harper. “Are any of the things that Google does an invasion of privacy and/or are such things illegal?”
Jeff:
All of the things that they do are invasion of privacy.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
No, we choose to use these shitty things everyday and we should…
Casey:
[ I guess ] they’re not illegal?
Jeff:
Yeah, they’re not illegal. And we choose that. And I think that a lot of times, people aren’t informed about that choice very well.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Which isn’t illegal. It’s just people are just… Want to use the stuff.
Casey:
I don’t really know…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And so one thing… I guess what I would say about the legality or illegality of a lot of these things is that I feel like the perspective of most people about legality and illegality of stuff like using the internet is very uninformed from a legal perspective, actually, which I think is bad.
Jeff:
Wait are you saying… Okay, keep going.
Casey:
Okay. So the reason I say that is because they take the approach. They believe that what the law is is a bunch of shit that got written down somewhere and that you go look at that and go, “If nothing in here was violated, then it’s legal.” And that’s the extent to which the law is supposed to function. And they’re happy with that, right? So it’s like, “Oh, you know, the Privacy Policy at Facebook said they could [ experiment ] on people, whatever, it’s legal and whatever,” right? That is a very myopic and not very constructive way of looking at the law in general. And the reason that I say that is because most things you do in life would not work at all if that was actually the way the law actually worked. The way the law’s actually supposed to work is that all of your transactions are supposed to have sort of agreed upon common law things that happen, sort of implicit contracts in them that are established in law. And they’re established in law because these are things that have existed for a long time. For example, if you go into the store and you buy a piece of gum, you did not have to sign a contract that says that that person is providing you with 8 sticks of Wrigley gum and they will taste delicious.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And if they do not taste as delicious as the previous set of Wrigley spearmint gum, then the store person will give you a refund equal to the amount of the gum blablablablabla, right? The reason that stuff doesn’t happen is because it would be ridiculous if that is how transactions in daily life had to actually occur. So instead, we just have a set of implicit contract that we all accept is what happens and it’s all reasonable and fair and works in a reasonable way so that people can shop. The only reason we don’t have that for the internet and your cellphone and the other things is because they’re new. And my opinion is that that shit should be fucking taken care of, right? That shit should be in common law. There should be no such thing as a [inaudible 55:31] EULA. That would be like if when you bought the fucking gum at the supermarket, they handed you a 7-page contract…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
That you had to implicitly agree to by buying the gum. That doesn’t make sense. It has never worked in society to have that be true. It should not work. And the reason for that is because contracts are business to business things. Contracts are things when you have lawyers involved. When lawyers aren’t involved, they shouldn’t be there. So I think this is a temporary anomaly. If we didn’t have a bought and paid for congress, this shit would’ve been over a long time ago because really, it’s not in the people’s interest to not have common law designing the internet. So are the things that Google does illegal? Absolutely. Are the things that Facebook does illegal? Just wait 20 years.
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
And if our system returns to functioning properly the way it does, the common law will be absolutely “all this shit is completely fucking illegal”.
Jeff:
Right. Okay.
Casey:
Sound good?
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Next.
Casey:
Next thing. Hamish Todd. “What’s the best thing to use chicken stock for?”
Jeff:
What’s chicken stock?
Casey:
Chicken stock is when you boil down chicken carcass.
Jeff:
Like skeleton soup?
Casey:
Yes. So basically, the reason this is the case is because I think at one point, I posted something on Twitter about the fact that I was making chicken stock.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I have 2 pro tips on chicken stock.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
The first one is if you want to make good chicken stock, ignore absolutely everything you fucking read about making chicken stock. It is all 100% wrong.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Period.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
The way to make chicken stock is after you carve your chicken… So you go to the butcher. You buy a chicken. Make sure it’s a good chicken. Get the real Heritage chicken. They taste better. It’s true.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
If you buy the fucking shitty Perdue bullshit chicken at the store, it tastes like ass. That is just the way it goes.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
But a good Heritage chicken at the store. It is worth the extra money. Take it home. When you carve your chicken, do the 10-piece cut like you normally would do. You cut your chicken into parts. You’re ready to go. Take everything that is left of your chicken. Put it into the pot. Pour water in. That is all. No aromatics. Don’t put celery in there. Don’t put onion in there. Don’t put all the shit they tell you to put in. Don’t do it. Just cover it with water. Boil it for 5 hours at least. Boil it until there is no chicken left in the chicken pot. It basically fucking just turns the bone into broth if that makes sense, right?
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Add more water if you have to but boil the living fuck out of your chicken. This is the way for example…
Jeff:
There’s no skeleton that comes out?
Casey:
Very little. You’d be surprised.
Jeff:
Oh…
Casey:
It just fucking dissolves that shit. You will be left with a delicious super thick, super awesome chicken-y broth. You pour that into a thing and you freeze it. You keep some in the fridge, some in the freezer, basically. That is now an awesome thing to use instead of, say, butter. Anytime you want to do something that you would’ve done with butter and you want some good nice flavor in there, like if you’re gonna make couscous, you’re gonna make rice, something like that… Dump some of this in there. It becomes a gelatin when it’s in the fridge. It’s like a solid. Scoop that out. Dump it in there. Absolutely delicious. Saves a lot of space. Tastes deliciously chicken-y and it doesn’t waste all the money on the onions and the carrots and all that other shit that people tell you to make chicken stock out of. So don’t do it.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
What to use it on? Stuff like that. Any time you would’ve used butter, you can totally use this and it’s great. That’s what I have found to do with chicken stock. Saves you a ton of money and is absolutely delicious.
Jeff:
Next.
Casey:
Next thing. Marco Mustapick says, “Launch codes to the US nuclear weapons being set to all zeroes.”
Jeff:
All zeroes, right. Yeah.
Casey:
I don’t know very much about this story. I think you read it.
Jeff:
Yeah. I have read it.
Casey:
What do you think about that?
Jeff:
I think the funny thing about it wasn’t that they’re all zeroes because apparently, most hotel safes are also the code that the hotel uses to get into them when the person forgets the code. It’s all zeroes…
Casey:
Right. Okay. Alright. Really?
Jeff:
Yes. But that… It was like, a long time. I don’t remember how many years but it was decades that they were set to zero.
Casey:
It was probably 00000 years.
Jeff:
Right. And I feel like that probably wasn’t the safest thing.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But also, people couldn’t program their VCR’s for a good decade, either.
Casey:
Right, exactly.
Jeff:
And now, they just figure it out for you so…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
One would hope that it’s better but it’s probably not.
Casey:
My feeling on that is it’s nuclear weapons, people. If the problem is that you think e launch codes are…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
The launch codes are the primary thing that’s the problem…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Like, how about the fact that our presidents are fucking lunatics all the time and they can launch them with the code? They have the code.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
The people who have the codes are more dangerous than people who don’t have the codes most of the time.
Jeff:
What I would like to see is the point in the movie, the really intense point where they’re like… They break open the code and he’s like, [inaudible 60:03] your code…
Casey:
Code, sir…
Jeff:
“0000 000.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And then, “Vice President, your code, open the key.” He cracks it open.
Casey:
Yep. “00…”
Jeff:
“000…”
Casey:
And then they’re like, “Hey, guys, are all the keys all zero?”
Jeff:
“All zero?”
Casey:
“Did anyone know that the codes were all zeroes?” And they’re like, “So, yeah… I… It was in a memo…”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
“I mean, we buried it in page 170 because we were a little embarrassed about it. So we never really got the encryption thing working exactly the way that we had hoped it would…”
Jeff:
“Well, listen. We were gonna do it…”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
“But then, we printed all these…”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
“Sealed envelopes…”
Casey:
Yeah. “They cost a lot of money… Appropriations…”
Jeff:
“You know, they’re a lot of money… I don’t know if you’ve seen that.”
Casey:
“There was the thing so it’s all zeroes…”
Jeff:
“They say they’re really cool when you break them open, right?”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
“We opened a lot of them because we knew they’re all zeroes so we tried it.”
Casey:
All zeroes, yeah. “It’s pretty fun.”
Jeff:
“We took them home for the kids…”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And they were like, “Oh, they’re all zeroes,” and we go, “Yeah, yeah. They’re fake but they’re not but they’re fake…”
Casey:
Yeah. Right. Exactly.
Jeff:
“Kidding. Don’t go…”
Casey:
And no one would ever guess all zeroes.
Jeff:
Yeah, that’s alright.
Casey:
So here’s the thing that I find kind of interesting…
Jeff:
I also would imagine that it would be like 1979-level microwave technology where it’s like…
Casey:
Oh, right.
Jeff:
Not one-touch…
Casey:
Right, right.
Jeff:
It’s not one-touch. It’s like a crazy, like…
Casey:
There’s like latches and shit. Yeah.
Jeff:
Latches, timer…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Ten, heat level…
Casey:
Yeah. Right.
Jeff:
55.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Fan level… You have to set 10 things.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So it probably isn’t the fact that the code was zeroes. It was so jank-tastic to start it. And every time you do it wrong, it resets back to the initial part that even if you have the code…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It’d be so frustrating…
Casey:
Well, the primary thing…
Jeff:
“Oh, damn it.”
Casey:
So here’s the thing I’m worried about is, like, if… It’s a good thing we never really launched a nuclear weapon at somebody that required one of these codes. I’m assuming the test ones didn’t require the codes because if we did, anyone could just go in there and look at the keypad and all of them are dusty except for zero which has, like, it’s totally worn out. And you’re like, “Well, we know what the code is now,” right? It’s like, you don’t even have to guess the order. It’s just like 000000000, a lot. And the thing just, like, launches into the air and you’re like, “I guess we got it.”
Jeff:
“Well, Mr. President, here’s the situation…”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
“The pads with 9 numbers are really expensive…”
Casey:
Right. Right, yeah.
Jeff:
“So we just, it’s really the number… Everyone has a different length of zeroes.”
Casey:
Oh, right. Oh, so there is a code…
Jeff:
So really, right…
Casey:
The code is the number of…
Jeff:
You just don’t get it.
Casey:
Yeah, you don’t understand, Marco.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Zeroes is totally secure because you still have to guess the number of zeroes.
Jeff:
Right. Right. You can encode any number in that number.
Casey:
Yeah, exactly. But it’s a one-bit system.
Jeff:
Yeah, it takes a long time.
Casey:
It’s like, whether there is a bit or not is how you code things.
Jeff:
And where it ends, yeah. Alright.
Casey:
So… Well, I don’t mean one bit. It’s a uni-ary encoding.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
We have one thing we can encode. We just have to encode the number of them that there are. Base 1, if you will. So I had a thing I wanted to mention about nuclear weapons that I thought was kind of interesting these days which I don’t hear mentioned very often but, like, it’s kind of interesting… Like, I don’t think nuclear weapons are really as concerning as people make them out to be and probably never actually have been. And the reason that I think that is because it seems to me that, like, armed conflict nowadays is this weird thing that people just do. Like, it’s clear to me now that when 2 countries engage in warfare, it’s not about doing the most damage somehow…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Because they all have mass--… Like, there’s countries with nuclear weapons and they never fire them. They’ve got tons more ammunition than they actually are expending. There’s all these weird things, like, was has become this thing that you do and it’s somehow… They’re like, “We just want the right amount of inhumanity but not too much.”
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s really fucked up when you think about it in your head.
Jeff:
Well, it’s more…
Casey:
It’s really disturbing.
Jeff:
It’s more wars of public opinion…
Casey:
Yes. It’s very strange.
Jeff:
Sometimes in their own country, sometimes in the world…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
But it’s done for strategic reasons that aren’t necessarily deaths.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
The deaths are side effects of what it takes to get opinion…
Casey:
It’s super disturbing…
Jeff:
To get pulled the right way.
Casey:
I think… Like, my understanding of war has been drastically changed based on sort of, like, just seeing more history stuff, more accurate histories, and more stuff about, like the modern age where we have so much weaponry that could be deployed at any time and isn’t even when you have an “armed conflict”, right? And it’s so interesting to see, especially like…
Jeff:
I think that’s…
Casey:
One of the most telling things recently that I was reading about was the thing where they were talking about how, like, the safest place for Jews in World War II in the dangerous countries was in Germany because it didn’t have its political structure destroyed. Like, Jews that remained in Germany were way safer than the ones…
Jeff:
The fled?
Casey:
Who were exported or who were in countries who had their governments destroyed because the red tape in Germany was still operating in this sort of half-assed way that meant that the amount of time it took them to actually get someone basically, like, sent to their death, if you will..
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Was way higher than when they’d go to some place like in the middle of, like, you know, sort of a border zone like between… You know, somewhere in Eastern Europe where there’s just no functioning government at all anymore because the government had been destroyed. They just mow people down. It’s like, they’d shoot everyone. They’d just walk in, shoot everyone in the village and everyone was dead, right? And so, it was this weird thing of going, “Holy shit,” like, “No, no, no. We don’t…” The whole mass atrocities thing, like, I have not been understanding it correctly. Like it is way more fucked up than we think it is. It’s way, way different than we think it is. And like, there’s this really complex human psychological things that happen…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s one of those things, too, where you start to appreciate… I appreciated bureaucracy so much more after reading about actually the things that happened in the Holocaust. I was like, “Red tape is one of the things that saves us from atrocities.” It’s really weird…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Like, it’s really disturbing when you actually start to read it.
Jeff:
Or slows them down.
Casey:
It’s the thing… ‘Cos like, it’s almost like the wolf is always at the door. There’s always someone who wants to exterminate somebody. There’s always this, like, this human thing of, like, sort of this bad element in the human psyche that there will be these people who want to eliminate, who want to murder, who want to do these things. And it’s almost like states are sort of this thing that we’ve developed to stop those people from doing it. It’s really weird. It’s kind of odd because you think of it the other way around and it really isn’t. It’s almost… You think of states as being the thing that allows those people to do it. But in actuality, it’s the opposite. It’s the breakdown of states that do. It’s fucked up.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s really, really fucked up. And so, yeah… Point being, that’s a topic for a longer podcast ‘cos it’s like… It’s such a complex and nuanced subject but it’s really disturbing because it means things are so much less simple than we think they are when it comes to killing.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
It’s really scary.
Jeff:
Well, I think it’s also why people… Why governments fear terrorism so much is because they’re not playing the… In this kind of theater of war…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
They don’t play… They’re not public opinion-based. The way they wage that war is very different. So it’s like, it’s not asymmetrical in the sense of death. It’s asymmetrical in the sense of what the… They’re like, “We can’t respond in the way that we’d like to respond because it would not look good whereas you don’t care about what it looks like. So I feel like there’s this frustrating part of fighting terrorism that has nothing to do with, like, the deaths involved. It’s just like, “Wait, you’re not killing people fair.” You’re like, “If you kill people the fair way like everybody else kills people, then we’d be fine.” It’s just a weird thing to think about the sense of what people are comfortable with, right, in terms of, like…
Casey:
I don’t know. I don’t think that’s true. So I’m gonna have to disagree with you.
Jeff:
Yeah. Well, let’s save it… Let’s do a whole podcast on that.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You want to a whole podcast on that?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Alright, okay.
Jeff:
You want to get one last one?
Casey:
One last one? So…
Jeff:
Is our file gonna be nice and tidy?
Casey:
It’s not gonna be nice and tidy but it’s gonna be tidier.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
So Doctor Lasagna asks why I don’t carry a smart phone anymore.
Jeff:
Doctor Lasagna?
Casey:
That’s what it said. Doctor Lasagna asked. The reason I don’t carry a cellphone anymore is because I feel like… And I feel like there’s no hard evidence way that I can prove this or not prove this.
Jeff:
A smart phone?
Casey:
A smart phone.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
’Cos I do still have a cellphone. It’s like an… I think it technically can connect to the internet using WAP.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
The old wireless… I’ve never actually tried to make that happen but, like, so that’s [inaudible 69:04] but it cannot browse the web. It cannot read Twitter, for example. It can’t do anything that you would want to do with it. The reason I don’t carry is because I found that having a smart phone just invaded my mental space too much. And I did less time thinking about things and more time reading new things. And I find that that’s just not that productive because there… I feel like probably an hour or two a day reading the internet would be all I would really need to do most of the essential communication that I need to actually do and to read most of the things that I actually need to read these days versus the amount that I actually need to do, work-wise or think about new things. And so, I really wanted it to be the case that when I, for example, went out to eat even by myself… You know, when I went out to eat even by myself, like I just go to lunch or something, I want to sit there and think. I don’t want to be consuming things all the time. So getting rid of the smart phone was a way to make that happen. And I have been much happier since I got rid of it. I can only say good things about getting rid of a smart phone. If you’re not an introspective person and you don’t like thinking about things, it won’t apply to you.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Smart phones are probably great because you need that distraction. But I like to think about things. I feel like it’s productive when I do. And so, that’s how I got that back.
Jeff:
I got rid of mine for a year and a half and just walking around feels better. Like, it just…
Casey:
But then, you’re off the wagon. You’re off the wagon right now.
Jeff:
Well, the big thing for me is I have to have maps in New York because I don’t know where anything is in New York.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And if I could get a phone that was Maps and phone and nothing else… And that’s why I uninstalled all the crap…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Then it’s good. But you still… Like, if it’s there, you will find your cellphone…
Casey:
Exactly…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Yeah, [ you’ll do it ].
Jeff:
It’s hard to get rid of it.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Alright, is that it?
Jeff:
You want to do one more?
Casey:
One more. Jesus, you keep egging me on. You say one more…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
But then when I do one more, you say, “One more.”
Jeff:
One more.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Keep going.
Casey:
Well, alright. Alright. Okay. I’m trying to think of which ones here are not… So how about we… Oh. So Pablo [ Zarrida ] asked, “Why did Jeff rage quit Twitter?”
Jeff:
Oh, that’s a huge topic.
Casey:
That’s a huge… Okay. Alright.
Jeff:
I will just say simply this — 90% of what I get out of Twitter is this… Is the quippy… Like, okay, you go on. You get your feed and it’s a whole bunch of people that you follow. Most of the people are re-Tweeting the same stuff.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
The other big chunk of it is little quips about those things.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Like, “Hey, I post this.” And someone posts like, “Yeah, blablablabla…” And it’s like…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
There’s no information given there…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And 1 in 10 of those will insult you accidentally.
Casey:
It’s like if MSCT3K was like… The whole theater was doing it, basically.
Jeff:
Yeah. And so, I just found I’d wake up in the morning and get angry at someone I knew and be like…
Casey:
That’s what the Block button is for, bitch.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
How many times I gotta tell you this?
Jeff:
I told you. I Blocked a lot of people…
Casey:
Block button. I Blocked someone today, it was great.
Jeff:
I Blocked a lot of people and then I will say just removing it completely is just better. And also, I still read…
Casey:
Maybe you’re right. I haven’t tried it. Maybe you’re right.
Jeff:
I still read you, Sean, and Fabian. And so, I get things that are, like, “Hey, if everybody’s talking about a particular subject, I still see those.”
Casey:
I see.
Jeff:
And even then, not having a Twitter account, it’s easier to read Twitter when you don’t.
Casey:
I see.
Jeff:
Like, the interface is better because I see… I just go on. I see…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Scroll down. Boom. Done.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
And that’s nice.
Casey:
Alright. Alright.
Jeff:
So that’s why. And there’s more complicated stuff but it is like a smart phone. I just mentally find myself better at 9:30 in the morning, not being angry at something stupid somebody said…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
It could be a psychologically better place to be.
Casey:
Interesting. That’s a good point.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I’ll have to consider it.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Is that it?
Jeff:
Yeah, that’s it.
Casey:
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us for another episode of the Jeff & Casey Show. We hope we have gotten through a fair number of topics in the topics pile. I know that it'll probably be at least, like, half the size now.
Jeff:
Awesome.
Casey:
Which is pretty good.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
But there’ll still be a lot of stuff in there. Hopefully, we will get to more of it.
Jeff:
Yeah, you can give us more topics…
Casey:
Next time…
Jeff:
At Podcast@JeffAndCaseyShow.com.
Casey:
Yes. If you would like to refill it up again, Podcast@JeffAndCaseyShow.com and we will see you next week.
Jeff:
Thanks, everybody.
Site design and technology © Copyright 2005-2014 by Molly Rocket, Inc., All Rights Reserved.
Contents are assumed to be copyright by their individual authors.
Do not duplicate without their express permission.
casey muratori
the jeff and casey show - season 4 - episode 27
prev
next
mollyrocket.com