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The Technician
No Imperfections Noted
The Jeff and Casey Show
Jeff and Casey Time
Casey Muratori
Seattle, WA
A Sloppy Kiss and a Hairy-Armed Hug
"His body quickly adjusted to my temperature."
Original air date: July 28th, 2014
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Transcript
Jeff:
Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Jeff & Casey Show.
Casey:
It’s been a long time since we had an off MegaTimer start.
Jeff:
Sorry. I pressed the up button wrong. Okay. So we recently had to go to Nebraska…
Casey:
Ah, yes.
Jeff:
You and I… And…
Casey:
You know, can I interject something real quick?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So there’s one thing I was thinking about, like…
Jeff:
Wait, just before we started, we’re…
Casey:
Yeah, before you started ‘cos I was thinking about this… Well, I had two things that I wanted to talk about, actually…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
So I’m gonna just throw those out there on the Jeff & Casey Show. So first things first, I decided that I wanted to switch shampoos.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Well, I didn’t decided that I wanted to switch shampoos per se…
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
What I decided was I wanted to potentially switch shampoos.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
It’s been a while. I’m gonna see what shampoos are available.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I’m gonna see what’s out there in the world of shampoo-conditioner combo…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
That I might switch to.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
I use a peppermint-based shampoo. It smells like peppermint.
Jeff:
Okay. Alright.
Casey:
It’s organic. It’s from the Whole Foods.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
And Ginger doesn’t love peppermint smells.
Jeff:
Okay, that’s bad news.
Casey:
So I was thinking, like, maybe I’m gonna switch to a different smell.
Jeff:
Yeah. Alright.
Casey:
Now, Ginger also doesn’t have a very good sense of smell at the end of the day so it really doesn’t cause a problem.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
But I figured that couldn’t hurt.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And I’ve been looking to maybe make a change anyway.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
So I started off at the Whole Foods…
Jeff:
Alright, we’re getting this. You’re not Amazon.com-ing this.
Casey:
I didn’t Amazon.com it.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
I went across the street to the Whole Foods…
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
And I looked in the section under “Shampoos & Conditioners” and I noticed that they have a store brand there that is fragrance-free.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
And I don’t really like fragrances.
Jeff:
So it’s neutral.
Casey:
So I was thinking, “Maybe I will get this fragrance-free.” Now, the problem with fragrance-free things… And I already knew this going into it… So my hopes were not high.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
The problem with things that are fragrance-free is that literally just means that they didn’t add a fragrance.
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
But the shit still smells.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I mean, I have a fairly sensitive nose. It’s not like a Hecker level nose.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Right? Like, I remember the time that me and Hecker went into…
Jeff:
Hey, all I…
Casey:
[inaudible 2:11] office and he sniffed out an old, moldy cup of coffee behind, like, 3 bookshe--… I mean, the story is legendary. The dude…
Jeff:
He threw my plant away…
Casey:
Away, yes…
Jeff:
Because he realized that it had started rotting under the dirt.
Casey:
Yes. Right. I am not at that level.
Jeff:
Now, that said, he says… He talks about his amazing nose all the time.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And I was like, “Chris, your nose [inaudible 2:30]” And he’s like, “You’ve got to give me this one thing.” That was so…
Casey:
But I am going to give it to him.
Jeff:
Yeah, I…
Casey:
I am going to give it to him.
Jeff:
I was laughing but then I was like, “You know what, you’re right. You have an amazing nose.”
Casey:
Yeah. I am going to give it to him because I feel like I have a relatively sensitive nose…
Jeff:
Yes. I have a terrible nose.
Casey:
And it is very clear to me that he can smell out things that I can’t smell out. So I know he’s at least better than average because a lot of people I know can’t even smell as good as I can and I can’t smell as good as Chris.
Jeff:
Oh, yeah.
Casey:
So he’s got a sniffer that you could put to use in an industrial setting if necessary.
Jeff:
Alright. Yeah.
Casey:
I’ve read things in the past about like there’s a woman who works for BMW, sniffing out car odor problems or whatever the fuck…
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
In their production facilities or stuff like that…
Jeff:
I gotta get Chris on my dishwasher.
Casey:
He could do that shit.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
He could solve… He could actually be an employee of a company whose job it was to sniff out problems, literally.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Anyway, that said, I buy this shampoo.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
It is the store brand Whole Foods fragrance-free shampoo and conditioner…
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
In case you want to reproduce this experiment at home. I get in the shower. I open up the bottle. I flip the little thing and I put some out on my hands and I start lotioning my scalp, okay, with the “fragrance-free” Whole Foods shampoo.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And I am not exaggerating at all when I say that it smells exactly like… Exactly… And the more you lather it, the more it smells, okay?
Jeff:
Come on. Tell me.
Casey:
To a T… And I think anyone would agree with me who has had this experience…
Jeff:
Stop it.
Casey:
Smells exactly like the smell you get when the motherboard has fried.
Jeff:
That weird…
Casey:
Do you know the smell I’m talking about?
Jeff:
Yeah, like that weird…
Casey:
It’s like shit melted that should never be melting.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s like the solder smell or something like that, that burnt metal something…
Jeff:
That burnt plastic… Yeah.
Casey:
I don’t know what it is, plastic/metal… Exactly like it. Like, it’s not a little bit. It’s not like, “Oh, I could see that being a burnt out motherboard or electrical component.” It’s like, “Nope. An electrical component has fried in my hair.”
Jeff:
That’s amazing. That’s awesome.
Casey:
That is what it smells like.
Jeff:
So that’s not… You’re not keeping that… Or you’re keeping it? Sometimes that smell, like…
Casey:
No. I don’t think… I mean…
Jeff:
That smell of fireworks is a good smell but I wouldn’t want it on me.
Casey:
It’s not fireworks. It’s not fireworks, though…
Jeff:
No, but I mean that kind of…
Casey:
It’s not gunpowder or sulfur… What is that that you smell after fireworks?
Jeff:
Probably like sulfur oxidizing…
Casey:
I don’t know what that smell is but it’s not that smell…
Jeff:
But that’s an example of a smell that people say, “Oh, that smell good.”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But you wouldn’t want to smell like that.
Casey:
Probably not, no. But anyway, this doesn’t smell good, either way. I don’t like that smell of motherboard.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Plus it’s like… I’m immediately… Like, my hindbrain…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
’Cos I used to… You know, when I was in the 1980’s and stuff when we had computers…
Jeff:
Well, I was gonna say my…
Casey:
Shit breaks and I’m terrified of that smell. That meant the hard drive’s dead.
Jeff:
I will say one of my saddest days was the first time I could get a 486 100…
Casey:
Yeah…
Jeff:
And I got it and I put it on my machine and it was rotated ninety degrees. I turned it on and immediately cracked all the way through and I’m like…
Casey:
Oh, my God.
Jeff:
And that smell… I didn’t remember that of like…
Casey:
Yeah, this is what I’m saying. I don’t want to smell that.
Jeff:
Oh, and you’re just like, “There’s $600 down the drain.” Yeah.
Casey:
The smell of disaster is not what I want in my hair.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Right? Like, I don’t want… I want my hair to smell at least like neutral if not success. Success rather than failure is a good smell for your hair, in my opinion.
Jeff:
So there’s an interesting there is everybody smells a little bit different.
Casey:
Probably.
Jeff:
So if you want to be totally neutral, what you need is some sort of Web 2.0 thing…
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
Where you put a little device on you that gets the essence of Casey and then makes that what your shampoo smells like so that it’s completely neutral.
Casey:
Is this like an Adobe color corrector thing? Is this like a thing you put on the monitor to like…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
“Let’s calibrate your hair…”
Jeff:
Right, calibrated shampoo…
Casey:
Right, okay.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So it’s like, “What’s the hair smell temperature…”
Jeff:
Yeah, exactly…
Casey:
“That you’re emitting right now… Okay, let’s get the pantone cards out…”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
“Where are we at? Let’s make this all work out.”
Jeff:
Do you remember that…
Casey:
I’m not done yet.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
So that’s the shampoo. And I’m like, “Well, let’s see what the conditioner smells like.” The conditioner smells like sawdust. So basically, the showering experience with the Whole Foods…
Jeff:
You got a lot going on in there.
Casey:
“Fragrance-free” shampoo and conditioner was melted motherfood followed by sawdust.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You know what they should say. . . I feel like on the… If you look at the bottle, it should say like… Instead of fragrance-free, it should say “melted motherboard” and the other one should say “sawdust”, neither of which are particularly attractive…
Jeff:
That’s awesome.
Casey:
Yeah, but there you go. So anyway, okay, that was thing 1.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
And the thing…
Jeff:
So the thing I was gonna say…
Casey:
That I wanted to…
Jeff:
What I was just gonna mention on the fragrance thing…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Do you remember about 3 years ago, when I first started seeing Dawn…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
I got… Somebody gave me a bottle of cologne. I can’t remember who I got it from. It was near my birthday.
Casey:
Okay. I don’t remember this.
Jeff:
Well, you remember the story, I think…
Casey:
I do?
Jeff:
Of when I… I was like, “Oh, I have cologne now. I should use it. I should try it…”
Casey:
That was wrong move # 1.
Jeff:
And I went to grab the cologne, like with my hand, like this. And when I grabbed it, I pressed the plunger…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And it shot, like, a shit ton right on the palm of my hand. And it was so much, it was like… ‘Cos it’s like a spritz and this was like a ker-chunk. And it was soaked. I’m like, “Aah!” And I was late coming… It was for Ginger’s birthday.
Casey:
This is amazing.
Jeff:
Like, holy shit. And I’m like, the room just stinks up. So I’m washing my hands. And if I put my hand, I’m like, “Oh, my God. It totally stinks.”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And so then, I went to Ginger’s party. And the whole night, I’m like, “I’m sorry. I’m sorry I know I smell like cologne…” ‘Cos it was so… It was, like, soaked into the…
Casey:
Ugh…
Jeff:
It was bad.
Casey:
You trying to, like, burn off the outer layer of skin. You’re like, “Where’s the blowtorch?”
Jeff:
Exactly. Yeah, it was something like that. Where’s sawdust then?
Casey:
It’s like that scene from “Andromeda Strain” where you, like, go into a chamber and stuff…
Jeff:
Yeah, the light… Yeah, burn the skin off.
Casey:
So what I was just gonna say just to finish up is one of the things that we used to do on the podcast a long time ago and we haven’t done in a while is giving away free ideas.
Jeff:
Oh, I see. Yes.
Casey:
I don’t know if you remember that. We used to be like, “Here are free ideas for you to go make money on.”
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
And so, one of the things that I feel like we could give away to the listeners now to continue that tradition here so many years later is a new concept I have, right… It’s a new product idea, a new way to fill a niche in the market, if you will, which is… I call it samploo.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Okay? And what samploo is, it is a sampler of shampoo.
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
Because here’s the thing, Jeff. You go into the supermarket.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And you see all these shampoos. You don’t know which one you want. So what this product does is we are a place that buys one of every shampoo and we put just a little bit into little capsules. You buy our sampler. You try out the different shampoos. And then you know which one you want.
Jeff:
Well, Casey, here’s what I would say to that.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
I want a more interactive experience.
Casey:
Oh, do you?
Jeff:
Right. I would rather there be a woman who stands at the shampoo aisle…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And just can spritz out a little shampoo…
Casey:
Okay. Right.
Jeff:
So you just try it and then maybe a little basin there…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
You know, and…
Casey:
So she’s got a ‘poo spritzer.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And she spritzer you with a little bit of each ‘poo. And you’re like…
Jeff:
And you choose. Alright.
Casey:
“Oh, yeah. Okay.” It’s like, “Oh, that’s melted motherboard.” And like…
Jeff:
“I don’t like that…”
Casey:
What’s the conditioner like? It’s like, “Sawdust.”
Jeff:
“Sawdust. No, I don’t want that.”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Alright, well, that’s fine. Then you know, if… That’s your… We’ve given the listeners 2 ideas to make money on now.
Jeff:
They don’t overlap. We could want both. We want…
Casey:
Right, right. Yeah.
Jeff:
A pretty woman dispensing shampoo at the store, as well.
Casey:
Well, it’s upscale/lowscale. Like, maybe mine is for the low-end market. It’s like, oh, you know… It’s like Zappos…
Jeff:
Oh, right. And then, Nordstrom shampoo. Yeah, sure.
Casey:
Or something… It’s like, “We are a shampoo portal and basically what we do is we make money selling shampoo.” So what we do to encourage you to buy different shampoos is when you sign up with us, we send you our samploo…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
You can try them all. Go crazy. Have a wild night of shampooing.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And then, you pick out some, you order them from us, and we make money on that transaction. And the recurring ‘poo transaction that happens, right?
Jeff:
Exactly. Right.
Casey:
Yours is for the upscale department customer service…
Jeff:
The shampoo experience.
Casey:
The shampoo experience.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
You go in there and it’s like everything is backlit with diffused lighting, right? It’s like, “This is going to be the kind of shampoo that is a lifestyle choice, Jeff.
Jeff:
Exactly.
Casey:
You did not just buy a shampoo. You did not just buy something to wash your hair. You bought something to wash your life with.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Okay? Your life is getting sudsy and massaged at this point…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
With this shampoo…
Jeff:
And cleaned.
Casey:
Exactly. And cleaned.
Jeff:
So have you ever read the stories of the people who go shampoo-free?
Casey:
You mean like for making dreadlocks and stuff?
Jeff:
No, no, it’s… There’s a number of stories that you don’t have to wash your hair every day. You have to rinse it, certainly. But your…
Casey:
I’m Italian. That shit gets oily, though.
Jeff:
So that’s the point. They talk about this. They’re like, the first two weeks is insane. You feel like you’re gonna go crazy.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
Your hair gets really oily and filthy.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But just like everything else, your body is always reacting to that. And supposedly, after you go a couple of weeks without putting huge amounts of soapy chemicals in your hair, your body calms down and reacts. And in fact, it’s supposed to be way, way better for your hair if you do that.
Casey:
But what does that mean?
Jeff:
I’m just saying that’s what… I can send you one of these articles and see. Like, most people will have much nicer looking hair if they shampoo apparently once a month. You rinse every day. Like, you get in the shower. You take a shower like normally. You just don’t put a shit ton of shampoo in your hair every day. The problem is you have to get past two weeks of like… You’re gonna… You’ll be hating life. But…
Casey:
So basically, you’re saying that what you should be doing currently is you should get in the shower, you should rinse your hair…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And then just leave it alone.
Jeff:
Leave it alone. If you get through 2 weeks, which is apparently bad, they’re like, “Put a towel down on your pillow. You’re gonna have a bad time.” You get through that period of time, your hair will look a thousand times better. It’s much shinier. It’s cleaner. It feels better. Everything about it is better. In fact, people with long… The article talks about all these celebrities that do this and it’s the reason their hair looks so nice. That’s all I’m saying… So you could try this…
Casey:
So here’s what we might want to do then, should you and I pick a two-week period at some point and fucking just go for it. It’s like, here’s what we’re doing — Neither me nor Jeff will wash our hair…
Jeff:
Oh, my God.
Casey:
For 2 weeks. We will take a picture every day of what our hair looks like.
Jeff:
I put a lot of product in my hair. I’m a little scared.
Casey:
I’m just saying. If you’re throwing this out there.
Jeff:
Should we try this?
Casey:
Are you prepared? You are talking the talk. Will you walk the walk? That is the question.
Jeff:
Okay. I tell you what. We will look at the calendar. We will find out when there is, like, no weddings, birthday parties…
Casey:
Right, nothing crucial…
Jeff:
Like, we can’t do anything crucial ‘cos we show up at one point in [ eight ] weeks…
Casey:
Right. Yeah.
Jeff:
And we’re looking like a homeless guy…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Then that’s bad news. We’ve got to find a nice window in which we do this.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
I’d be down for that.
Casey:
Now, I also feel like we could time it…
Jeff:
I’m thinking maybe mid-August. Like, August 15th through the end… Like, we just try to do it.
Casey:
That’d be perfect, too, because that just taps out… Right at the end is [ Packs ]. And nobody there has hygiene…
Jeff:
So they won’t notice.
Casey:
There’s not a lot of hygiene there, anyways…
Jeff:
We’re gonna fit right in.
Casey:
So even if there’s a problem, we’re sailing straight through. We’re just totally fine.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’ll be like, “Hey, look. It’s another 2 unkempt dudes at [ Packs ].” No one bats an eyelash.
Jeff:
Then we just go, “It didn’t work out. Jeff read the article wrong.”
Casey:
It turns out it has nothing to do with hair. It was about eyebrows which we don’t wash anyways.
Jeff:
It’s about waxing cars.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You don’t wax your car every day.
Casey:
Yeah, 400-pound hairpiece.
Jeff:
No, I heard this from multiple people. I’ve heard this from a person who actually does it and her hair looked fantastic.
Casey:
Who’s that?
Jeff:
It’s an actress friend of Dawn’s.
Casey:
An actress friend? Okay. But here’s the thing…
Jeff:
She also uses oiling… Do you know what that is?
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
This isn’t gonna help. So it is a thing that people do instead of brushing their teeth. It’s actually a popular thing people do right now.
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
You take… It’s not olive oil but it’s like… It’s coconut oil.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So at night, when you go to brush your teeth, instead of brushing your teeth, you take a tablespoon of coconut oil, which is oil, like real oil…
Casey:
Yeah, I know what coconut oil is.
Jeff:
And then you… For 10 minutes…
Casey:
You cook with it.
Jeff:
You just go… You, like…
Casey:
Swish it around…
Jeff:
Swish it… You push it through your teeth. You’re, like…
Casey:
Right, you’re just flossing it up there, get it all in there.
Jeff:
And then at the end of 10 minutes, you just spit it out…
Casey:
How many… 10 minutes?
Jeff:
It’s a long time. You have to spend a long time. They’re like, it takes longer than brushing your teeth but you’re not putting all this other crap on your teeth or whatever. And I’m also like, if you swish something in your mouth for 10 minutes, [ you’d probably use Mountain Dew ].
Casey:
That’s what I was gonna say.
Jeff:
It doesn’t matter what the thing is but, like, coconut oil is the thing. So she does a lot of these kind of little [ counter-y ] things…
Casey:
And this is for what, like, whiter teeth or something?
Jeff:
Their teeth are supposed to be whiter… Well, I mean, in that crazy way, people talk about like, “I’ve never felt better,” like, “Oh, my dad’s tumor went away.” They use it to, like, insane…
Casey:
’Cos that’s what I was gonna say. So what I was gonna say is, like, I feel like actors and actresses are… Their opinions on practices such as these are literally completely irrelevant…
Jeff:
Possibly…
Casey:
Because they are fucking superstitious motherfuckers.
Jeff:
They are superstitious but they also look so much better than the average person. And this could be why. They walked into…
Casey:
But that’s reverse. No…
Jeff:
But they walked into superstitions that happened to work.
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
We don’t know.
Casey:
That’s complete reverse bullshit.
Jeff:
We don’t know.
Casey:
For every actor or actress who looks great, who’s like, “Oh, yeah, you’ve got to rub the monkey glands on your skin every day,” there’s 9 others who are all fucked up looking because they were doing weird ass shit to their skin and it’s like it’s totally random, dude.
Jeff:
Here’s what I would say about that.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
There is a friend of Dawn’s who is on “The Walking Dead”, the zombie show.
Casey:
Right. Yeah.
Jeff:
Is it walking or waking?
Casey:
I have no… I don’t care.
Jeff:
Anyway, he’s on the TV show. He’s a regular on the show.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
He plays a haggard, like… Roar… Whatever crazy man…
Casey:
A zombie?
Jeff:
He’s not a zombie.
Casey:
He’s not a zombie.
Jeff:
He’s one of the survivors.
Casey:
A crazy survivor.
Jeff:
He’s a survivor and… I don’t want to get too much [inaudible 17:47] I don’t want to… Like, ‘cos the story’s gonna be a little weird.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
But he plays the character…
Casey:
Wait, but they’re gonna know who we’re talking about. They already know who you’re talking about. You’ve ruined it already if you’re trying to [ keep him anonymous ].
Jeff:
No, I’m just saying he’s supposed to be playing this bad guy and his character is supposed to be dirty and filthy and scummy and craggly and evil.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And when you see him on the show, you’re like, “Oh, my God.” That is a freaky looking guy.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
In person, I’m like, “That’s one of the most attractive men I’ve ever seen in my life.”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I’m like, that makes no sense at all.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
I mean, he still is not conventionally attractive.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But he’s, like… His hair is perfect.
Casey:
Right. Yeah.
Jeff:
All the things you can do to make yourself look good…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
He’s perfect at.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And you’re just like, “That’s the best that person could look.”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And it’s far beyond… So it is that weird thing of… I bet you run into Steve Buscemi or somebody or Buscemi, what’s his name…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And then you’d go, “Oh, yeah. He’s a pretty good looking guy.” You’d be like, “That’s so weird. He plays ugly, weird characters. He’s a good looking dude.”
Casey:
Well, I have nothing to say to any of that other than I’m in it…
Jeff:
Alright, so August 15th maybe we’ll try this if you’re down.
Casey:
Maybe. We’ll look at the calendar and actually verify that we don’t have to do anything because, you know, August 15th is very close to my wedding anniversary.
Jeff:
Oh, okay.
Casey:
I don’t…
Jeff:
You can’t show smelling like…
Casey:
I try to remember if we did… ‘Cos we have plans to go away for the weekend and I don’t necessarily know that I want my hair all fucked up. But I don’t remember which weekend… We did not… We had to move the weekend around a little bit…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
So it may be clear…
Jeff:
We will look at…
Casey:
But it is not clear. I might call the ball on that one but, you know…
Jeff:
Yeah, I’m fine with that. But I actually think if we do the experiment, it will be better to do it with somebody else so when we go to something, [ Wild Wednesday ], and we look completely hagged out…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
We can be like, “We’re in the middle of an experiment.”
Casey:
Right, right. Yeah. So we’ll time it.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
We’ll do a double.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
We’ll double it up. But we just need to make sure that we pick the right time with this.
Jeff:
I like that. I’m down for that.
Casey:
So we’ll do that and we’ll find out what happens. And maybe this will just be like, “Hey, this solves the hair problem.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
The only thing I do wonder, though, is so you rinse the hair and you let it… And it gets back to whatever but does your hair smell good at that point? [ Or does it get a “smells like you” ] smell?
Jeff:
They… Yes. And I’ll send you the article…
Casey:
Did you sniff the actress’ hair?
Jeff:
She smells fantastic all the time. This is a joke I make all the time.
Casey:
You smell fantastic.
Jeff:
Here’s a joke I will make all the time.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
’Cos I meet these actor people…
Casey:
Yes, you do.
Jeff:
All the time.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
One thing I will say, as a general rule…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
They small fantastic always. Guys and girls are like… I don’t… ‘Cos I hang out with a lot of programmers and I never… It’s neutral. I never… Occassional you [ see ] some guy at [ Packs ] where you’re like, “Oh, he kind of smells…”
Casey:
Right, right. Yeah.
Jeff:
Like, you can actually smell his body odor.
Casey:
There’s a stink problem.
Jeff:
But mostly, it’s just a neutral… You don’t smell like anything.
Casey:
So I…
Jeff:
They always smell like… You smell like…
Casey:
I see.
Jeff:
What is the… Vanilla… You’re like… And it’s not like they smell like perfume. But they… Which is good… I mean, ‘cos they’re working with people, they have to figure that shit out.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I don’t even think they intentionally do it. It’s like, to be successful at acting, you are a person who is nice to be around in all weird ways. And so…
Casey:
So do you think it’s something like if programmers had to French kiss each other as part of their job like actors do, we would all smell good?
Jeff:
I think if we all pair programmed…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Hygiene would… We would be… Everyone would go, “Programmers are just, like… They’re so together.”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Like, “They look great. They smell great.”
Casey:
But for some reason, any time I try to talk to a programmer, they always kind of stand next to me and face the same direction. I don’t understand… Like, I don’t understand what’s going on. It’s really weird. Like, I wish they would face me but that’s just not a thing programmers do. They just don’t ever face you.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Okay. Putting that aside…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
For a second… I feel like I had a second thing that I wanted to talk about that has… Now that we spent 20 minutes talking about my shampoo…
Jeff:
You’ve lost it?
Casey:
I’ve lost…
Jeff:
Here, I’ll start talking and see if you remember.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
’Cos once I start talking about something else, it’ll come in.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And that was… We were on the way to Nebraska…
Casey:
Yes, we were.
Jeff:
We went there for a wedding.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And we were there on the 4th of July.
Casey:
That’s right.
Jeff:
And I had never done fireworks before.
Casey:
That’s true.
Jeff:
I’d never lived in a state where fireworks…
Casey:
Were legal…
Jeff:
Were legal…
Casey:
Yes. And I Tweeted about this. So most of the…
Jeff:
Oh, yeah.
Casey:
Most of the fans of the Jeff & Casey Show, like the hardcore fans of the Jeff & Casey Show…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Were following your exploits unbeknownst to you.
Jeff:
Oh, so you had pictures up there and everything?
Casey:
There was like… For example, there was a picture of you kneeling down, lighting a firework, while other fireworks were literally going off 5 feet from your face.
Jeff:
Well, I was trying to do… Like, having some… ‘Cos like, you’d light them one at a time, it’s like, Boom…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And then it’s like, fuss fuss fuss fuss fuss…
Casey:
Right. Yeah.
Jeff:
10 seconds. Boom. So I was trying to, like, get some pipelining…
Casey:
Yeah. Oh, I know what you were trying to do.
Jeff:
And that’s the one that made my ears ring for about an hour.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
’Cos I put in one of the grenade… Like, they have these ones that are kind of grenades. You drop into a tube and you light. The first stage shoots them way up…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And then they start falling for about 10 feet. And then, they completely explode.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And so, I set one of those off. And I was trying to set off this low one so we have a high and a low. And I do that and I was fussing with the lighter and I couldn’t get it lit. And then, that one went off the launcher. And oh, man. That was really loud. And that was… I knew I made a big mistake.
Casey:
I feel like the…
Jeff:
No, we didn’t have too big of mishaps.
Casey:
You didn’t have too much… Next time, I’m buying safety goggles for you [ before next time ].
Jeff:
I did get hit in the neck.
Casey:
Yes. And if that had been your eye, you would be blind. So next time, we’re getting safety goggles if we do it again for you.
Jeff:
Ginger… I made Ginger’s ears ring accidentally.
Casey:
Yeah, you did.
Jeff:
I was throwing firecrackers…
Casey:
Yeah, you were.
Jeff:
And she was sweeping and we were too close.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
[ I think she’s better now. ]
Casey:
I got mad at you for that.
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
So the other thing I was gonna say, though, is I feel like we could probably solve some of the safety issues, as well. Oddly enough, in a way that a sharper knife in the kitchen leads to less cutting not more…
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
You would think a dull knife would be less likely to cut you but the opposite is true because you start cranking down on the vegetable because you can’t fucking cut it with your dull-ass knife. And then, bam.
Jeff:
So I could have bigger fireworks.
Casey:
Well, it’s not the size of the fireworks I was gonna talk about. What I was gonna say is if the lighters are too wussy, they don’t fucking get a big-ass flame out there…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
If we had some kind of big-ass torch thing…
Jeff:
Yeah, that stayed lit with just a small flame…
Casey:
Yeah, and that was like a big-ass thing that was like, this is a serious flame that will light the wick on fire right away… It would actually be safer than the dinky little grill lighter thing that we had.
Jeff:
Yeah, I would say that’s true because especially when I was getting burning… We were all done and we had some firecrackers leftover and I didn’t want to store them so I was like, “Let’s light all these off.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Lighting those… You’re holding them in your hand while you’re lighting [ or on the ] ground…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Both times were… All of those seemed 10 times more dangerous to me than anything else because that’s the one that hit me in the neck is it blew up on the ground and shot a little piece of gravel and hit me.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
All that stuff, like, if you could just light them all instantly would have been safer.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You’re right. Maybe a cooking torch.
Casey:
So we need to up our game there. And we also need to have some safety goggles.
Jeff:
Yeah, we had a lot of good action.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But what I was gonna say about that is on the way there, you and I got a present.
Casey:
We did. We basically were the recipients of someone else’s, I daresay, grave misfortune that befell them.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
We sort of had a Karmic schadenfreude where we got to bask in the glory of someone else’s mistake.
Jeff:
Yes. And that is they got off the plane and did not bring the book they were reading with them.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And they left that book for us to discover.
Casey:
Yes. Now, these people, I think it is probably safe to say, are connoisseurs…
Jeff:
That’s right.
Casey:
Of fine literature. They were selecting from… I mean, I want to say they probably had… You know, they’d gone through the Pulitzer Prize winners that year…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Right?
Jeff:
Done those.
Casey:
Done those. They had probably looked at…
Jeff:
Read the Golden Finch…
Casey:
The Nobel Prize for Fiction. They probably kind of went through those. And then, they were like, “Well, I need something to read on the plane…”
Jeff:
“That will stimulate my intellect…”
Casey:
“That will stimulate my intellect and continue that trend of deep, insightful reading,” which led them to select James Patterson’s ghostwritten novel, “Zoo”…
Jeff:
“Zoo”.
Casey:
“Zoo”.
Jeff:
It’s called “Zoo”. So let me just say one thing. I didn’t know… So here’s a picture of James Patterson…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
He apparently… I’ll pull this page here. I didn’t really know the James Patterson thing. I’d never read anything by him.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
He is just kind of a brand.
Casey:
Yes. So if I’m not mistaken… And this is something that actually… This would be a good [ Sean links ] if we still had [ Sean links ] because I believe, if I’m not very much in error, that James Patterson is actually the bestselling author of all time…
Jeff:
Oh, okay.
Casey:
I mean, if you add up all the books that have been purchased under a single author’s banner or marquee, if you will…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
He is number one, like, more than Tolkien, more than Rowling, more than any of the people who’ve done the classic series that you remember, more than Dan Brown, all that stuff. And it was just like it’s because he shits out a thousand books a day.
Jeff:
Well, all I’ll say is, like, at the end of the book here, there are… It says, “Books by James Patterson…”
Casey:
And to be clear, when I “he shits them out”, he actually has… He’s like… Who was it, Monet or something? Whoever… Was it Monet who had the stable of painters who painted shit under him?
Jeff:
Yeah, I don’t know.
Casey:
I don’t remember. Art History people will know. But he’s like that for books. He just has writers who sit around, writing shit that he tells them to write, I guess.
Jeff:
And I’d heard that name but, really, I only knew… When I looked at these books, the only thing I knew is, like, the Alex Cross character.
Casey:
I don’t even know that but…
Jeff:
But like, this is his character, apparently, that like, was the one that kind of caught on…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And so, I would assume that he probably wrote the first one or the first couple, the one that kind of made his name…
Casey:
At some point, he had to have been actually writing.
Jeff:
But even then, it’s like… Here’s the [ list ]… “Cross my Heart”, “Alex Cross Run”, “Merry Christmas, Alex Cross”, “Kill Alex Cross”, “Crossfire”, “I, Alex Cross”, “Crosses Trial”, “Cross Country”, “Double Cross”, “Cross”, “Mary, Mary”, “London Bridges”, “Big Bad Wolf”, “4 Blind Mice”, “Violets are Blue”…
Casey:
This is amazing.
Jeff:
“Roses are Red”, “Pop Goes the Weasel”, “Cat and Mouse”, “Jack and Jill”, “Kiss the Girls”, and “Along Came a Spider”. That’s just with that character.
Casey:
Hey, man…
Jeff:
Now, that’s only… Now, look, that’s much of the page.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
We haven’t even got to the Women’s Murder Club which there’s 50.
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
And then there’s…
Casey:
What does that even mean, the Women’s Murder Club?
Jeff:
Yeah. And then there’s one featuring Michael Bennett who is another of his characters. Then there’s…
Casey:
This is amazing.
Jeff:
Then there’s the Private novels — “Private Berlin”, “Private London”, “Private Games”, “Private # 1”, “Private”… I like that there’s always one that’s Cross and then… But then there’s these Books for All Ages…
Casey:
Oh, my God. I’ve never seen this page. You just spun it around. That’s, like, 2 whole pages of tiny print…
Jeff:
2 whole pages…
Casey:
After the first page of tiny print!
Jeff:
So we have… The sections are Featuring Alex Cross…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
The Women’s Murder Club, which apparently is the most popular series right now…
Casey:
Wow.
Jeff:
Then there’s books featuring Michael Bennett. Then there’s the Private novels. Then there’s the Readers of all Ages which is the shit ton of them.
Casey:
Yeah, there’s a crazy… There’s at least as many on there as there were on the previous one.
Jeff:
There’s a bunch of Daniel X’s… Then there’s just other books. And other books…
Casey:
It just keeps on going.
Jeff:
It’s all of that…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And that’s where “Zoo” is.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
“Zoo” is in there.
Casey:
So “Zoo”… So if I’m reading you correctly, if you understand correctly…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
“Zoo” is not featuring any recurring characters yet.
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
Now, one of the exhilarating characters in this book could maybe…
Jeff:
Maybe…
Casey:
Go on to be a recurring character…
Jeff:
So let me just say…
Casey:
Let’s be clear…
Jeff:
I got the book…
Casey:
But hold on a second…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So just so we’re clear on this, so this is… This book, as far as I can tell from the cover…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Is not, in any way, actually written by James Patterson. It is a book that James Patterson’s name has been stamped on. And maybe, if we’re lucky, James Patterson gave the elevator pitch to his underlings…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Who is who… Who is the underling?
Jeff:
Michael Ledgwig.
Casey:
Michael Ledgwig, who actually wrote the book as far as we can tell.
Jeff:
So here’s what I’ll say…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So we were laughing at this book.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And I read almost the whole book on the flight from Minneapolis.
Casey:
You engaged your speed-reading [inaudible 31:14]
Jeff:
It was a 90… I got into it…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And read it. I will say I have never… And we made fun of the other book I read.
Casey:
We did.
Jeff:
That train book.
Casey:
Yes, we did.
Jeff:
This is the worst book I’ve ever… In terms of just writing…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like, concept, whatever…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
The actual… The tactical writing from page to page…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Is the worst I’ve ever seen.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Not only terrible…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
The chapters are generally a page and a half.
Casey:
Yeah, they’re really short.
Jeff:
They’re ridiculously short.
Casey:
And this is a paperback… This is not a hardcover.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
They are a page of, like, paperback text.
Jeff:
So I mark some but I want to just say one thing. So the over says, “Zoo”, and there’s a lion kind of by… Is that Big Ben?
Casey:
Let me see.
Jeff:
It’s a clock of some kind.
Casey:
Let me see.
Jeff:
It’s like… There’s a lion in the city.
Casey:
So yeah, that’s not Big Ben. There’s just a lion on top of a generic looking…
Jeff:
Clock tower?
Casey:
Like a classical architecture building and there is a clock on it.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
It’s not even a clock tower. It’s just a clock on a building.
Jeff:
So underneath the lion, there’s the big words, “Zoo”, bloody “Zoo”…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And then a ripped hole like something scratched through it. And in that, it cuts through to the page underneath…
Casey:
Yes, it does.
Jeff:
Which is all in red. And it says, “People around the world are panicking…”
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And then you open it…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And it says, “And this time, it’s not zombies.”
Casey:
Which I think is worth mentioning because a lot of times these days, it is zombies.
Jeff:
No, no, it is zombies.
Casey:
That’s the thing. It is zombies. And this time, it’s important to know it’s not zombies this time.
Jeff:
I just… There’s a lion on the cover.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
So I’m not originally thinking zombies at all.
Casey:
But it could’ve been a zombie lion.
Jeff:
It could’ve been…
Casey:
And what they want you to know is it’s not a zombie lion… Or is it?
Jeff:
Now, it opens… The second page is some, like, acclaim for “Zoo”.
Casey:
Yeah, can we talk about the acclaim for “Zoo”? Because the interesting thing about this book is no one should ever have acclaimed it for anything.
Jeff:
No, no, no.
Casey:
For any reason. So who is acclaiming “Zoo” and why?
Jeff:
I mean, some of these are… You’re getting… You’re having to work to find the good things. “I absolutely devoured this book, no pun intended. This was a book I could not put down.” I couldn’t put it down, either…
Casey:
Which is true…
Jeff:
But it was for another reason.
Casey:
Which could be true, yeah.
Jeff:
“Patterson poses some really poignant and timely statements and ideas and really makes you think about what would really happen to society if this were to really come true.” She used “really” 3 times in her sentence.
Casey:
Who is this?
Jeff:
This is “Just a Lil’ Lost”… You know when you say “lil’ buddies”?
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
JustaLilLost.com reviewed the book.
Casey:
What? I’ve never even heard…
Jeff:
[ That’s acclaims… ]
Casey:
Alright. Give me that. Let me see that book.
Jeff:
It’s acclaim.
Casey:
Are they all… Oh, my God.
Jeff:
They’re all dot coms.
Casey:
So they only have… One of them is a Blogspot.
Jeff:
Oh, yeah. Dude, to get the acclaim for this book…
Casey:
Okay. Alright… This is amazing. So the acclaims for this book…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
There are 4 of them.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
And they are all from… I’m sorry, 5 of them. They are all from sites you have never heard of.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
DeadTreesAndSilverScreens.com, MotherHoot.com, AlwaysWithABook.Blogspot.com, JustALilLost.com, and Examiner.com… To get to the other acclaims (New York Times, Larry King, Chicago Sun Times), they switched to “Raves for James Patterson”…
Jeff:
Yeah, they’re like…
Casey:
So they go… We know… There was a book some time that he wrote a long time ago that we can actually… Let’s have those out there.
Jeff:
[inaudible 34:43] other writers…
Casey:
Oh, my God.
Jeff:
Yeah. So, it’s amazing. Okay. So the prologue title is called, “It’s All Happenin’ at the Zoo”.
Casey:
So here’s… Can we talk about something just briefly?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So, one thing that I don’t understand at all in fiction books…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Is what is a prologue? I mean like, I know what it is.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I mean, right? Like, I’ve written books now so I understand… It’s not like I’m ignorant of what a prologue is.
Jeff:
I can tell you what it is.
Casey:
But it’s like… When you think about it, it’s like, this is a fiction book. There are a number of scenes that we are going to show you…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
That tell the story of this book. What makes the first one a… Why is it a prologue?
Jeff:
I can explain this for you.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
They use zero-based numbering, too. They just, instead of using the word, “zero”, they use “prologue” because it is, it’s chapter zero. That’s what it all is.
Casey:
Like, I don’t know how I would sit down and go, “Okay. . .” Now, once in a great while…
Jeff:
Generally, let me say what a prologue… I mean, what I understand a prologue to be in a book…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Is a prologue is something you’d show that the main character that you’d normally introduce in the first paragraph in the book…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Comes in the next chapter.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So the prologue’s saying, “Don’t pay attention too much. This is just setting some shit up. The real shit’s gonna happen in the chapter.”
Casey:
And see, that, to me, just smacks of amateurism.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s like, the first scene is the first scene.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You can’t tell me it’s not the first scene. But okay, so there’s times when I do think a prologue works which is when it’s fake. So like, for example, if the Princess Bride wants to claim that it’s a prologue when the dude is talking about how he went and got the book that he’s about to translate for you or whatever the fuck, that makes sense. Like, that’s a smart… Right? So once in a while, a prologue makes sense. But the times when it’s just like, the prologue is the first chapter of the book…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You’re just like, “Why is it a prologue?”
Jeff:
Well, I mean, here’s… We’re not… Structurally…
Casey:
Alright…
Jeff:
This is not [ Michael’s ] strong suit. I mean…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Look, there’s chapter 2. I can pull it up. It’s just one and a half pages…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Now, it is spectacularly poorly written.
Casey:
Right. Yeah, it was.
Jeff:
And so, the point of this book is that something is making animals go crazy…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And attacking the humans.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Okay. And…
Casey:
So which makes it…
Jeff:
And the hero of the book is someone who is realizing this is happening and no one believes him.
Casey:
Oh, no one believes him.
Jeff:
You know that situation?
Casey:
Now, here’s the thing, Jeff. I feel like there is a very closely related book to this that is like where Jeff Roberts is the hero. And that is that, like, something is making the animals in the world behave like humans. Like, they’re going into the bank and trying to open an account or they’re ordering a smoothie or whatever. And you’re the only person who thinks it’s awesome. That’s the, like… That’s the book about you. It’d be called, like, “Zoo!” and it’d be like, “Something is making…” What does the front of that say again? The very front. “Something is making…”
Jeff:
What are you talking…
Casey:
“People…”
Jeff:
“People around the world are panicking…”
Casey:
Okay. So it’s like, “People of the world just don’t understand…”
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And you open it up and like, “And this time, it’s not a monkey on a Segway.”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Or whatever… It’s like, that would be your book.
Jeff:
That would be my book.
Casey:
Sorry to interrupt you.
Jeff:
I actually thought about that. So…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
The hero goes around and he’s been tracking the fact that all these animals are attacking.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Now, he’s tracking these because they’re vicious animal attacks…
Casey:
Right, yes.
Jeff:
That are on the news and everything. He’s just the only person that puts it together. And so, he has an office with lots of TV’s.
Casey:
He does, does he?
Jeff:
And then he’s watching TV and then he’s taking notes. And he’s talking…
Casey:
So it’s like Sports Center. He’s got feeds. He’s got the feeds.
Jeff:
And he’s, like, writing notes and he’s, like, figuring this shit out when nobody else is putting it all together. And he calls this problem, this worldwide systemic problem, “HAC”.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Human-Animal Conflict, Casey.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And so he’s just…
Casey:
Because you know, humans and animals haven’t exactly been in conflict before.
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
It’s not like our whole fucking history has been a conflict with animals until we fucking won.
Jeff:
So here’s the thing, Casey.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
We need to, early on, establish the fact that he isn’t just some guy that hates animals, right?
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
So he has this one little bit. He’s like, “I sat up when Atilla knocked my ear buds out.”
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
“’Yo, Atilla,’ I said.”
Casey:
Yo.
Jeff:
“My roommate held out his hand for a high five. I gave it to him.”
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
“’Look at this craziness. Every time I think things are gonna calm down, the activity doubles. Sarah won’t even call me back. Boy who cried wolf. I feel your pain, you know?’”
Casey:
Yeah, I do.
Jeff:
“[inaudible 39:51] says Atilla. He then made a few panting hoots and scrambled into my lap and gave me a sloppy kiss and a hairy-armed hug.”
Casey:
Oh.
Jeff:
“Atilla, by the way, is a chimpanzee.”
Casey:
Well, it makes a lot more sense now.
Jeff:
My favorite sentence in the book is, “Atilla, by the way, is a chimpanzee.” That’s the end of chapter 4.
Casey:
That’s actually not my favorite sentence of that passage. My favorite one is the “high five, I gave it to him.” Do that one again.
Jeff:
“My roommate held out his hand for a high five. I gave it to him.”
Casey:
I gave it to him.
Jeff:
I didn’t leave him hanging.
Casey:
No. Yeah, because that is what establishes… You know how they have the screen writing rules that you talked about before, the save the cat…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Establish that the hero is a good guy by having him save the cat.
Jeff:
Save the cat.
Casey:
It’s like, what kind of hero denies a chimp a low five, right? You give that chimp a low five because that’s how we know you are a hero, you are a good person at heart.
Jeff:
That’s right.
Casey:
You don’t leave a chimp hanging.
Jeff:
Well, in the very next chapter, after he’s explained that he is a chimpanzee…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
That’s the hanging…
Casey:
Atilla is a chimpanzee.
Jeff:
That’s the hanging sentence in chapter 4.
Casey:
Now, is the main character a chimpanzee?
Jeff:
No, the main character…
Casey:
Is just a regular dude?
Jeff:
Is a guy named Oz.
Casey:
Oz? So Oz and the chimp.
Jeff:
Yes, Oz and the chimp.
Casey:
Which would have been a better name for this novel, by the way, “Oz and the Chimp”.
Jeff:
Interestingly…
Casey:
If it was a sitcom, that’s what it’d be called.
Jeff:
So it now goes into the, like, “Okay, now we’ve established some of the characters…”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And you think… By the way, when I’m reading about this and his pet or whatever, I’m thinking this is like, establishing this, Oz ends up being a really important part at the end of the book which is…
Casey:
You mean Atilla?
Jeff:
Atilla, I’m sorry.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
“For breakfast, I gave him a mango, a stack of Fig Newtons…”
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
“Which he went ape over, and half a leftover turkey club.”
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
“Today’s featured dessert was applesauce mixed up with crushed up Zoloft. That’s right…”
Casey:
I’m sorry. The antidepressant?
Jeff:
Yeah. “That’s right, Zoloft. Even apes need happy worlds in our crazy world but maybe just the ones who live in New York City.” That’s…
Casey:
Okay, so basically, the chimpanzee is, like…
Jeff:
Oh, my God. I forgot this part. The chimpanzee… “Atilla plays Wii and he can kick my ass in bowling.” That’s what it says.
Casey:
I don’t even… Okay. Alright. That’s fine.
Jeff:
Yeah. That’s good.
Casey:
Alright, that’s totally good. Does that come back in the end where, like, there’s a… The thing where, like, the chimp has to save the day by bowling a perfect 10 and he does?
Jeff:
No, it doesn’t. But the Wii is never mentioned again although… So the point of this, all of this, is that something’s happening to the animals and they’re going crazy and they’re attacking humans, specifically. They’re not attacking… They’re not just becoming violent animals.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And attacking everything in sight…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
They’re seeking out humans, Casey.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And they want to kill humans more than anything.
Casey:
Okay. Now, animals can’t really super differentiate that way. Like, they don’t necessarily know…
Jeff:
That’s why it’s so crazy. And that’s why nobody believes Oz, you see.
Casey:
But that’s why it’s hacked. That’s why this shit is hacked because this is the kind of situation that only someone with a lot of TV’s and note taking can figure out because otherwise, people would just be like, “Oh, this lion’s just crazy again like they are.”
Jeff:
“This is crazy.”
Casey:
Now, I have a question.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
I’d like to pose a question at this point. So lions…
Jeff:
We’re gonna have to be… Just real quick. There’s gonna be some spoilers for this. So the people who are gonna go out and buy “Zoo”…
Casey:
Oh, fuck.
Jeff:
You probably should just pause this.
Casey:
How did we not see that. You already spoiled it. So basically, you ruined the first 2 chapters when they don’t know Atilla is a chimp.
Jeff:
Yeah. I did ruin the first three and a half pages.
Casey:
Way to go, dude.
Jeff:
Slash four chapters.
Casey:
Way to go, dude. Spoiler alert. Maybe we’ll try to put that… Maybe the title of this will be “Spoiler Alert”…
Jeff:
“Zoo”, yes…
Casey:
So they don’t accidentally get mixed up here…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
And ruin the book for them. Now…
Jeff:
Sorry to [ interrupt ]…
Casey:
The thing that I wanted to ask at this point is [inaudible 43:50] is the person who wrote this book, which ostensibly is James Patterson but I think we both know has nothing to do with James Patterson.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
The person who wrote this book is aware, right, that lions would normally attack humans. Like, that’s actually not an unusual circumstance.
Jeff:
Well, now interestingly, Casey, he addresses these.
Casey:
Yeah, so how does he address that exactly?
Jeff:
Well, he addresses it by… He talks about the important thing… And in fact, I’m on that page.
Casey:
’Cos just so we’re all on the same metaphoric page as well as literal page, I’m just trying to point out the fact that you have to keep lions in, like, a cage and shit. Otherwise, they would eat humans…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Presumably.
Jeff:
So the book starts with 2 lions escaping from a zoo and eating the caretaker.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And…
Casey:
They went right for the caretaker, did they?
Jeff:
Now, zoos, in captivity, apparently do not attack…
Casey:
Because they get food every day…
Jeff:
Because they get food. We talked about this with the sharks.
Casey:
Okay. Right, yeah.
Jeff:
Like, they just don’t give a shit if there’s food just given to them.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like, it’s too much work. Like, why bother?
Casey:
Well, that was you projecting a bunch of shit on the sharks that we don’t know that’s fine.
Jeff:
Well, that’s what they said but yes.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
They said, like, they don’t attack you. They won’t even eat the other fish.
Casey:
No, no, no. No, the shark sat across from me on the therapist’s table and we were like…
Jeff:
He explained it.
Casey:
“You just don’t seem to have that same zest for life.”
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
And he was like, “Oh, I just get fed every day. What’s the point? What’s the point in all this, Jeff?” And it’s like, “Oh, yeah. It’s like, ‘cos, you know, I just don’t feel like…”
Jeff:
Wait. Stop it.
Casey:
“I want to feel like I’m making a difference in the world. And I feel like just eating this chum that comes down from the top, it’s like, is everything just manna from heaven? Is that what it’s all about? I feel like my ancestors had to work for their food. I don’t feel like I’m in touch with my species.”
Jeff:
Well, listen.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
In the ones that got out…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
They did attack the caretaker…
Casey:
The caretaker, yeah…
Jeff:
Who’s carrying in food. And they did not eat the food.
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
They just attacked the…
Casey:
They didn’t eat the food.
Jeff:
They really didn’t even eat a lot of the human.
Casey:
Yeah…
Jeff:
And that’s curious.
Casey:
That’s curious, indeed.
Jeff:
And everyone else just thought it’s a random lion attack.
Casey:
Yeah. But I don’t think so.
Jeff:
But he didn’t think so.
Casey:
You know why, Jeff? Because it doesn’t add up.
Jeff:
It doesn’t add up.
Casey:
It doesn’t add up, Jeff.
Jeff:
So he goes to Africa.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
To find out, with a friend of his, and see some of these lion behaviors in Africa.
Casey:
Wait, what?
Jeff:
He flies to Africa.
Casey:
But why would… Why would Africa… I don’t understand.
Jeff:
Because there are reports of more and more lion attacks I this African country.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So he flies to Africa to see for himself…
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
And he is set upon immediately by lions.
Casey:
Oh.
Jeff:
And what he…
Casey:
Oh, so he, like, walks off the plane and lions are just there. They’re like, the lions…
Jeff:
They get off the plane…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
They get into a jeep. And they’re almost immediately set upon by lions.
Casey:
Okay. Alright.
Jeff:
The jeep.
Casey:
I see.
Jeff:
Now, the things that are unusual about the lions attacking the humans…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Is all the males…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Many males, 50 or 60 male lions are attacking. And that is unseen behavior before.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Male lions do not hang with male lions.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
They kill each other.
Casey:
Yes. And not only that but male lions are like male humans in that, left to their own devices, they don’t do anything…
Jeff:
That’s right.
Casey:
They just sit around and watch females all day.
Jeff:
That’s right. And they talk about the fact of where… They don’t see the female lions anywhere. They’re missing. But the males are together…
Casey:
Where are the female lions, Jeff?
Jeff:
We don’t know where are at this point.
Casey:
So here’s what… You know what, here’s the thing. I can already answer the question for Oz. I can already answer the question for Oz and Atilla.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
I feel like…
Jeff:
[ ‘Til they come. ]
Casey:
I feel like if I am a male lion and all the ladies are gone, I’m gonna be all hot and bothered, as well. Of course, I’m gonna go around attacking things randomly.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s like, “Where are all the lion women at?” Right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You see what I’m saying?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So this is just a giant problem of blue balls. This is a lion blue balls problem that’s gotten out of hand, Jeff.
Jeff:
Well, here’s… This one I cut out… I mean, I flagged this…
Casey:
You flagged this one.
Jeff:
This paragraph…
Casey:
It’s a good paragraph?
Jeff:
’Cos it’s an amazing…
Casey:
Cuts to the heart of the matter, does it?
Jeff:
No, it doesn’t cut to the heart of the matter…
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
But it’s a great bit of writing.
Casey:
Okay. Yeah.
Jeff:
So he’s looking at the video of all the male lions that set upon him and attacked him.
Casey:
Okay. So someone was videotaping this?
Jeff:
He was videotaping it.
Casey:
He was videotaping it?
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And he had to drop the camera and run.
Casey:
Well, then how’d he get the tape?
Jeff:
He’s retrieved it and he’s watching it.
Casey:
He retrieved the tape?
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
He’s like, “We’ve got to get that tape back.”
Jeff:
“The footage was incendiary.”
Casey:
Incendiary? So it lit on fire?
Jeff:
“The footage had the power to change the conversation. This was a cute story to tell at a Molotov cocktail party.”
Casey:
A Molotov cocktail party?
Jeff:
Molotov cocktail party. He’s taken the Molotov cocktail…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And then he’s put another word… So cocktail party goes together and so does… See that, Casey, is writing right there. He’s done something there that’s pretty amazing.
Casey:
So here’s what I will say, giving him full credit for this breathtaking passage, is you’ll notice he kept his metaphor straight, though. It was incendiary footage…
Jeff:
Oh, that’s a good point.
Casey:
And that is a Molotov cocktail party. So I feel like, if I may, he is a… On the rail… He is staying on the rail with the metaphor.
Jeff:
I tell you it’s a great bit of writing.
Casey:
What happens after that, though? What’s the next sentence?
Jeff:
Then he goes on… He [inaudible 49:08] with the scientists and then he asks…
Casey:
No, what is literally the next sentence after, “This is a cute story at a Molotov cocktail party”?
Jeff:
“The scientific community wouldn’t be able to wrap their minds around this footage.” He’s used “this footage” in 3 times in the sentence.
Casey:
Yes, keep going.
Jeff:
“Or be able to explain it.”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
“’It wouldn’t just be the scientists, either,’ I thought. My gears were turning double time now. The world would have to listen.”
Casey:
His ears were turning?
Jeff:
“My gears were turning…”
Casey:
Okay. So basically, he only was able to hold it up for 2 sentences, though. He immediately… ‘Cos the right thing to say if it’s incendiary footage, you would say this would light the scientific community on fire…
Jeff:
On fire.
Casey:
Right? It’s like, you wouldn’t be like, “They won’t wrap their heads around it.” Like, if anything, you’d say, “They would not be able to extinguish it.”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Like, he totally loses it.
Jeff:
“They could not extinguish this idea.”
Casey:
I knew it. It’s like, this guy… I was surprised that he was able to hold it for 2 sentences so I was thinking it must go off the rails immediately thereafter. And it did. So I’m happy about that ‘cos I didn’t want to have to give him full credit. And I don’t.
Jeff:
Well, so then, this is… I marked this page because it makes no sense in the reality of the book…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And it’s never referred to again.
Casey:
Oh, okay.
Jeff:
Wait, let’s see. They’re sleeping.
Casey:
Who’s sleeping? Atilla and Oz?
Jeff:
No, Oz and this girl he picked up, this French girl he picked up over at the lions…
Casey:
Okay, so Oz and the French girl were in the jeep together with the lions?
Jeff:
No. He finds her being attacked by alligators. Coincidentally, alligators are not affected by this drug, only mammals. So the alligators just happen to be attacking her by accident.
Casey:
Wait, what?
Jeff:
She was running, if I remember, from hippos.
Casey:
Okay, please tell me you have misremembered at least one of these things.
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
This is amazing, Jeff.
Jeff:
He’s running from the lions…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Trying to get back to civilization.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
He has no water.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
He happens upon a French girl in the middle of a river…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Let me tell you the whole thing ‘cos it gets crazier.
Casey:
This is amazing.
Jeff:
She’s on a rock on a river and alligators are coming towards her.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Now, at this time, he doesn’t know that alligators, that reptiles are not affected.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
It’s only mammals.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Or maybe he didn’t remember this and he thinks they are at this point. So he’s like, “Oh, I’ve got to…” He yells at the alligator. He has one shot and he shoots and misses. The alligator’s gonna eat the girl.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So he decides, “I’ve got to do something.”
Casey:
Wait, he has one shot, he shoots and he misses at what? He can’t hit all the alligators…
Jeff:
He was trying to just shoot one of the alligators and he wasn’t able to do it.
Casey:
Why? What is one alligator…
Jeff:
One alligator less to deal with than 2. But hold on. We haven’t got to the…
Casey:
Wait, so there’s 2 total alligators?
Jeff:
There’s a whole shit ton but 2 are…
Casey:
There’s a shit ton of alligators.
Jeff:
2 are swimming directly towards her. And she is whimpering because she’s been missing for 2 days, on the run from all the animal conflict.
Casey:
Okay. So if I have you correct here, what you’re saying is there was a French girl.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
She is in Africa for some reason?
Jeff:
Yes, she’s a biologist or something.
Casey:
Okay. So she is in Africa, studying nature somewhere?
Jeff:
With a whole bunch of other people…
Casey:
A squad of hippos advances…
Jeff:
Kills everyone else.
Casey:
Kills everyone else.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
They just go hippo on the whole village.
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
The French girl runs away. She gets out somehow.
Jeff:
She gets out.
Casey:
She’s faster than the hippo. She is a live French girl.
Jeff:
Yes, something happens.
Casey:
She has beat feet…
Jeff:
Right, and she is on the… And she doesn’t know where she is for 2 days…
Casey:
The hippo stampede…
Jeff:
For 2 days… So she’s like…
Casey:
She’s on the run. She ends up, perhaps the way… Because as we all know, hippos will never go in water.
Jeff:
No, right.
Casey:
So she runs into the water to get free from the hippos, ends up standing on a rock.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Now, alligators, sensing her precarious position, decide that it’s time to move in for a snack.
Jeff:
Exactly.
Casey:
For a French snack, for a brie and a cracker and a baguette…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
This guy comes upon the scene. He has one shot left in a… What?
Jeff:
Right. And he’s been on… He’s…
Casey:
In a pistol? In a rifle?
Jeff:
He’s been on the run for about a day from the lions.
Casey:
Okay. He’s out of water, right? I missed that part.
Jeff:
He’s out of water. He’s dehydrated, whatever.
Casey:
He’s out of water. But he has a gun.
Jeff:
He has a gun.
Casey:
A pistol, rifle… What are you talking about?
Jeff:
He’s like, “I’m just trying to do something.” And he wanted… He thought maybe he’d scare them off, whatever…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
He takes a shot, misses…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
He’s like, “Oh, fuck, what do I do?”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And then he realizes…
Casey:
He has a brainstorm.
Jeff:
He just passed… I don’t know what they’re called…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But it’s when the huge, like, acres of ants…
Casey:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah…
Jeff:
You know, that just go through African plains…
Casey:
The red ants, fire ants or whatever?
Jeff:
And like, hey, if they happen upon anything, they just…
Casey:
Eat it.
Jeff:
Strip it down to bones…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
In minutes. He remembers he passed a big scene of these ants.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
And in the middle of that ants was, like, a water buffalo or a gazelle or something that the ants were going to town on.
Casey:
Alright…
Jeff:
So he… Without fear for himself, Casey, he runs into the ants…
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
Grabs the gazelle. And he’s running and the ants are biting him and going in his mouth and he’s coughing out ants. But he gets… And he throws that in the water and the alligators go eat the gazelle. And then he’s like, “Swim!” And then she swims to him.
Casey:
Now, hold on.
Jeff:
Yeah. And he’s got bites all over him.
Casey:
Hold on for just one second.
Jeff:
Oh, wait. One second. She comes out of the water going, “Thank you. You saved me.” He is freaking out with the ants. He is getting them all off.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
He undresses and he realizes that he is naked before her when he finally comes to his senses and has killed all the ants that are on him.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
He realizes and becomes embarrassed and pulls his pants up. And he realizes he’s shown her the goods.
Casey:
So hold on a second.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I have a slight issue with this. How long has the French girl been standing on the rock in the middle of the lake?
Jeff:
We don’t know how long she’s been… He just happens upon her. We don’t know how long she was on that rock.
Casey:
So, like, the alligators are, like, leisurely alligators? They have been waiting for a while maybe to eat her…
Jeff:
Or she tried to cross and then got stuck on the…
Casey:
But I’m just saying. They’ve been waiting for a while. And now, they are not in a particular hurry. So it’d be fine if he takes 15 minutes to run back to wherever this gazelle was…
Jeff:
Oh, it was right next-door. He could just run it.
Casey:
But what were the alligators doing? What were the alligators doing?
Jeff:
They were still advancing.
Casey:
They’re just kinda…
Jeff:
Slowly, you know, they’re thinking about it…
Casey:
Circling around, they’re like, “I don’t know about this. I don’t like French food.”
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
There’s freedom fries…
Jeff:
So as you can imagine, this is a bonding situation…
Casey:
Yes. Right.
Jeff:
With the girl. And they realize… I mean, she’s seen him naked. Like, they’ve seen all… They already know a lot about each other.
Casey:
Right. So was he acting like, “These are fire ants, not pubic lines.” He’s like, “I just wanted to let you know I am not… My hygiene is not as bad as it appears. But let’s be honest honey, you were on the run for 2 days. So it’s not like we’re gonna be nitpicking here about who didn’t wash the hair. And as we now know, your hair could actually look fabulous if you’ve been on the run for long enough, if you haven’t it in a long time.”
Jeff:
Here’s the important thing that the writer does…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
That is a little mistake…
Casey:
Oh.
Jeff:
Is that he is having girlfriend problems back in New York.
Casey:
The writer does?
Jeff:
No, Oz…
Casey:
Oh, Oz makes mistakes, not the writer, the hero…
Jeff:
No, no, no. This is a writing… This is what I felt was a strategic error.
Casey:
A strategic error… Now, it’s interesting that you could even discern strategic errors from intentional things in this particular book but okay.
Jeff:
Yeah. So he is having problems with his girlfriend…
Casey:
He is…
Jeff:
Because she is not… He’s flighty and he’s late all the time…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
He’s always talking about this HAC shit…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And she’s like, “It’s either me or the HAC,” right?
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Like, he’s saying all this shit and she’s like, “You’re making my friends nervous with all your crazy talk.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And she’s like, “I just can’t do this anymore.”
Casey:
“We’re done.”
Jeff:
“We really just need to break up.”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
He says, “Okay, I’m sorry. But can you please watch Atilla while I go to Africa?”
Casey:
What? You never leave the pets with the ex-girlfriends.
Jeff:
You never leave the pets with the ex-girlfriends.
Casey:
Never leave the pets with the ex-girlfriends.
Jeff:
Now, let me just say one thing.
Casey:
What is wrong with you? Because here’s the thing, Jeff. I bet at least once, Atilla went for the low 5 and she didn’t give it to him.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I between she has hung him out to dry on the low 5.
Jeff:
She’s not a fan of Atilla, anyway. She’s like, “He’s stinky.”
Casey:
Yeah, I bet.
Jeff:
But she still does it. Now, here’s the strategic error in my opinion, both in the nature of the character and in what the reader is supposed to feel about the hero of the character.
Casey:
Oz?
Jeff:
Yes. And that is he is a researcher who has come to believe that animals are randomly attacking humans. And then escalating, he refers to it as exponentially increasing…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And then you pointed out…
Casey:
[ Not what ] that means…
Jeff:
It was just doubling…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So that’s not exponential. It could be linear at that point.
Casey:
We didn’t know.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s like, it’s got to double again…
Jeff:
Before we…
Casey:
So we know it’s exponential, guys.
Jeff:
Yes. So he asks his girlfriend to watch Atilla who is a 4 foot 11, 150 pound male chimpanzee that lives in his apartment.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So he says that and leaves. I’m immediately already… And I am not an expert in HAC, Casey.
Casey:
But you’re sure to becoming so over the course of this book. I mean, you’re learning…
Jeff:
I am scared for his girlfriend. And, as you’d expect, while he’s off gallivanting with the fire ants and the French girl…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Atilla eats his girlfriend.
Casey:
Sweet.
Jeff:
Kills and eats her.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
There is even a hint of some sexual behavior that may have occurred.
Casey:
Right. Yeah.
Jeff:
While I’m reading this, I’m like… I’m laughing all the way reading through this book.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
But even then, I’m like, “What a fucking asshole.” Like… Right? You believe… In the reality of this book, you believe animals are doing this and you sent your ex-girlfriend to check on this dangerous fucking animal that you couldn’t even put… That you shouldn’t even have in an apartment complex, to be clear. He lives in a walk-up in Brooklyn and he’s got this fucking monkey. Alright…
Casey:
Well, here’s what I’ll say about that. First of all… I mean…
Jeff:
So you see why I’m like, I think it’s bad for the character because it makes him look like an asshole. I think it’s bad for the nature of the book because it makes you think, “Well, is he or is he not an expert in this?” I think it’s bad for both what the reader is supposed to feel because I think he’s an asshole. So…
Casey:
So, I think you may be misunderstanding… One of the most important things to understand when writing anything…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Is who you are writing it to.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
I mean, you can’t send the same letter that you would write to your fiancé to the power company.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s not right. It’s like the audience… The person receiving the verbiage that you put down on paper is a very important part of that sort of 2-sided process.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
It’s a dialogue.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
It’s a dialogue where only one side is talking.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Sorry.
Jeff:
Yeah. You couldn’t keep it together.
Casey:
I couldn’t keep it together.
Jeff:
But you did pretty well.
Casey:
Yeah. Sorry. So I guess what I would say about that is I feel like this book in particular is aimed at a certain reading demographic that may not be interpreting things the same way you are, right? This is the Transformers kind of book where it’s like…
Jeff:
So as soon they referred to her as an ex-girlfriend, they’re like, “Fucking bitch,” like that kind of…
Casey:
That’s exactly what I was gonna say. What I was gonna say is, like, this is the part of the book where people who have recently broken up get to be like, “Yeah, the chimp ate the bitch,” or whatever, right?
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
And like, there’s probably other scenes in this book that are totally just like, you know, whatever… And then now, there’ll be, like, a remorse scene so that they can have that stage of grief, as well. It’s gonna be like… There’s anger and denial…
Jeff:
It could be…
Casey:
And you know…
Jeff:
It is… All I know is I was reading this thing and like, “Okay, there’s a second love interest. Every book does that. Whatever.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Don’t have your ex-girlfriend eaten. Have your landlady eaten. Like…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
You just don’t do that if you want me to keep Oz in my corner here.
Casey:
Right. Well, maybe he’s supposed to be a conflicted hero.
Jeff:
Possibly.
Casey:
He’s supposed to be ambiguous. You know, this is advanced literature, Jeff.
Jeff:
Yeah, that’s true.
Casey:
You just want these things…
Jeff:
The anti-hero…
Casey:
Spoon-fed to you, okay?
Jeff:
I just want this in black and white.
Casey:
That’s not the way the world works.
Jeff:
Yeah, shades of gray.
Casey:
This is “Zoo”. This is not zombies, okay?
Jeff:
Right. It is not zebras, there’s gray. It’s not just black and white.
Casey:
Right. That’s the point. It’s not just black and white. Real hard-hitting novels, Jeff, are not about something. They’re not clear. It’s about the ambiguity and richness of life, Jeff. And sometimes, your fucking girlfriend gets eaten by a chimpanzee…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And people need to understand that and internalize it.
Jeff:
Yeah. Well, speaking of ambiguity, I’m gonna read you a little bit of a chapter that, as I said, just comes out of nowhere.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
There’s no further explanation for this.
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
I’m just reading it.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So he is asleep.
Casey:
He is.
Jeff:
And he says, “My eyes opened…”
Casey:
Uh-oh.
Jeff:
“to the sound of a bump. I drew back the sheet and was on my feet as the groaning hinges ripped free from the door frame. The door exploded inwards, smashing against the floor.”
Casey:
Oh, dear.
Jeff:
“An enormous shape filled the doorway. And then it didn’t. There was movement in the room. Then another huge shape darkened the door. For an instant it was gone inside the black room.”
Casey:
Uh…
Jeff:
“’Oz, are you there?’ Chloe sat up in bed, reached over to the bedside lamp, switched it on, and screamed. There were bears. 2 bears. 2 massive fucking grizzly bears filled the room five feet from the bed. The 2 bears moved forward on powerful legs, their fur rippling over their bodies in waves. Drool swum from their open mouth. Their beady black little eyes stared outwards, as blank and indifferent as death. I could not move.”
Casey:
I’m sorry. “As blank as death”?
Jeff:
“As blank and indifferent as death.”
Casey:
I can see death categorized as indifferent but…
Jeff:
Not blank…
Casey:
Blank?
Jeff:
Well, I’m just saying. Hold on. “I could not move. It was as if my feet had been nailed down. There was no thinking.”
Casey:
That does sound like you can’t move.
Jeff:
“No fight or flight. Even my lizard brain had checked out.”
Casey:
Oh, reptilian.
Jeff:
“Bear 1 won his [inaudible 64:23]
Casey:
“Bear 1, this is Bear 2, over.”
Jeff:
Yep. “Bear 1 reared back on his hind legs and swiped at me with his paw. I tumbled backward and felt bright hot wetness I knew was blood on my cheek and neck. My hand flew to my face. Blood…”
Casey:
Now, here’s the thing…
Jeff:
Wait.
Casey:
Couldn’t the bear have just been into some honey. I mean…
Jeff:
Listen.
Casey:
Maybe it’s not blood. Maybe we shouldn’t…
Jeff:
Listen.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
“My hand flew to my face. Blood poured between my fingers, covering my face and stung my eyes.”
Casey:
Oh.
Jeff:
“Then I awoke, on my back, in bed, screaming.”
Casey:
This is a dream sequence?
Jeff:
“My hands were flailing at the empty air.”
Casey:
Oh, it’s a dream sequence.
Jeff:
“No blood, no pain. It took me a moment to realize Chloe was screaming, too, beside me in bed.”
Casey:
Wait, what?
Jeff:
“[inaudible 65:11] she yelled in the dark. I grabbed her shoulders. ‘Get them off me. No,’ Chloe said, pushing me away. Her eyes were open but still seeing her nightmare. ‘It’s okay, Chloe. It’s a dream. It’s a dream.’ Her lungs sucked at the air. I held her and felt her body slowly…”
Casey:
Hold on.
Jeff:
Wait. We will come back.
Casey:
“Her lungs sucked at the air”?
Jeff:
They “sucked at the air. I held her and felt her…”
Casey:
It’s not the only thing sucking at this point.
Jeff:
“I held her and felt her body slowly loosen. ‘But it was so real. We were sleeping and then the door broke down and bears rushed in.’”
Casey:
“Holy shit, we had the same fucking dream.”
Jeff:
“’I watched one of them kill you.’”
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
“I clicked on the other light. You dreamed about bears?’ ‘Yes, they were huge. Two huge grizzly bears broke down the door.’ ‘Bullshit.’ I hopped out of bed and began pacing. ‘What is it?’ ‘I had the same dream. 2 grizzly bears knocked the door down and came in. One of them ripped off my face. How is that possible? How is it possible we both had the same nightmare?’ I’d heard of mutual dreaming before…”
Casey:
Oh, he had, had he? I didn’t realize he’d heard of this before. It’s not so unusual now, is it?
Jeff:
“But I’d always been skeptical…”
Casey:
Oh, he had but not of HAC.
Jeff:
“Never having experienced it…”
Casey:
Nope.
Jeff:
“Only in the most extreme cases were there reports of people dreaming the exact same thing.”
Casey:
The “most extreme cases”, Jeff.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
They are extreme.
Jeff:
“Was it because we were exposed to the same stimuli?”
Casey:
Could be.
Jeff:
“Or was it something else.”
Casey:
Might’ve been.
Jeff:
“Did it have to do with HAC?”
Casey:
It could.
Jeff:
“Surely not. No…”
Casey:
Oh, I’m sorry. It didn’t. I was trying to help you out there but I guess not. I guess it doesn’t have to do with HAC.
Jeff:
“’Mon Dieu,’ Chloe said…”
Casey:
Mon Dieu.
Jeff:
“’What is this? I’m so scared, Oz. What is going on? What is happening to the world?’ A feeling like a vein of ice slipped from my toes to the top of my head.”
Casey:
Slipped from your toes…
Jeff:
Sliced, I’m sorry…
Casey:
Okay. I was gonna say, “sliced from my toes to the top of my head.”
Jeff:
Okay. “’I don’t know,’ I said, holding my head in my hands.” End of chapter. Now, when I read that, I’m like, whatever is affecting the animals…
Casey:
Is going to…
Jeff:
Is starting to affect the humans…
Casey:
Yeah. Yeah, no… Never mentioned again?
Jeff:
Never mentioned, referenced… No mutual dreaming ever again.
Casey:
Well, but see, mutual dreaming happens in extreme cases, Jeff.
Jeff:
It does.
Casey:
I’ve heard about it before…
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
And in extreme cases, it can happen. Now, I would like to ask a question about that particular chapter. So under what circumstances would your lungs be sucking at other things besides the air?
Jeff:
Thin air?
Casey:
That was very interesting, “lungs sucked”… And they didn’t suck “in” the air. They sucked “at” the air. So sucking was directional, in the direction of the air which is all around us but I guess, just in case there was a higher density air pocket, we aimed at it or something like this. I don’t know.
Jeff:
Maybe sucking is more than breathing. He’s trying to say, like, how bad she’s [ really ]…
Casey:
Maybe. Yeah. That’s quality right there.
Jeff:
So now, this is…
Casey:
I have a question. Why… So at that point when we both woke up, right, and Chloe’s like, “I was dreaming of bears, too,” and I’m like, “Holy shit,” I would’ve at least checked to see were the 2 bears in your dreams named bear 1/bear 2…
Jeff:
Bear 1/bear 2, right…
Casey:
Or were they [inaudible 68:35] like, “No, it was Carl and Franz,” and like, “Oh… Whew, we didn’t really have the same dream.”
Jeff:
“Wow. Goddamn it.” Yeah, it was just a coincidence.
Casey:
“We had 2 separate dreams and we had 2 different sets of bears attacking us.”
Jeff:
So this is a little section from right after he discovers. He finally… After all this time, he goes home and he’s like, “Oh, fuck. My monkey…”
Casey:
Right. “My monkey and my girlfriend…”
Jeff:
He goes home and then he stumbles upon this scene. “I hardly notice Chloe as I brush past her in the hallway. I made it to the front door and Chloe grabbed my arm. ‘What is it, Oz? Tell me. Tell me please.’”
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
“I babbled, ‘My um… Um… My girlfriend.’ She balked, scrunched up her face. Her face showed confusion with the possibility of anger in it.”
Casey:
Mine’s kinda showing that, too, right now.
Jeff:
“’I thought she was your ex-girlfriend?’ ‘She is now.’” This is how he responds…
Casey:
Oh, man.
Jeff:
To finding…
Casey:
“She is now.”
Jeff:
For finding the body…
Casey:
So he thinks sarcasm…
Jeff:
Just to be clear…
Casey:
Sarcasm was a good…
Jeff:
Yeah. Well, is the way to deal with this, yeah. And here’s him describing finding the body. “It was a human body, most of one, anyway. It was decomposing and what looked like a partially-eaten human body. I couldn’t identify it by the face. The face was gone and so were the feet and the hands.”
Casey:
Oh, it was gone was it? Yep.
Jeff:
“But there was long red hair.”
Casey:
Those were the tastiest bits.
Jeff:
“Red, red hair, Irish girl’s hair. And the body was wearing hospital scrubs. That’s how you know it was her.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And you’re like, “Oh, he feels bad and he’s crying.” And then he’s like, “She is now.” That’s like the movie… That’s like in the trailer.
Casey:
Yeah. That’s like Arnold Schwarzenegger says… Like, in “The Terminator” or something, it’s like, you know, “Is that your ex-girlfriend?” And like, “She is now.” So the thing about that is, technically, it’s his ex-ex-girlfriend. Meaning, it was his ex-girlfriend…
Jeff:
Yes, that’s true.
Casey:
And now she’s no longer that.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
She is only a partial ex-girlfriend at this point.
Jeff:
That would’ve been the more complicated line.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
“She’s my ex-ex-girlfriend now.”
Casey:
Well, if you’re writing this book and just fully embracing the comedy, then that is what would happen. She’s like, “I thought she was your ex-girlfriend?” He said like, “She’s my ex-ex-girlfriend.” And she’d like, “That’s what I said.” And like, “No, you didn’t. You’re missing an ‘ex’.”
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
And like, “I said the ‘ex’.” It’s like, “No, but it’s two exes.”
Jeff:
And they get in a big fight.
Casey:
And it’s like, “Why two exes?”
Jeff:
“Why do you always do this to me?”
Casey:
“Because my ape ate her.”
Jeff:
And he’s like, “Why are you giving me so much shit? You’re French. You say everything wrong.” And she’s like, “Listen, if we’re not accurate in this and we’re scientists…”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It could be a whole big argument…
Casey:
“I thought it was your ex-ape.” “Well, he’s not my ex-ape. He’s still my ape.”
Jeff:
“It’s my fucking ex-girlfriend. Can you give me some slack here?”
Casey:
Yeah. “My ex-ape ate my ex-ex-girlfriend, alright. I’m going through some serious shit.”
Jeff:
So, let me just sum up…
Casey:
This book is very good.
Jeff:
I will just sum up what happens…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Because no one should give this guy any money.
Casey:
Spoiler alert.
Jeff:
He figures out… They spend 5… Like, you read through this part and it’s not long after they find the girlfriend where it says, “Part 2 — 5 Years later”. Just skips 5 years into the future…
Casey:
Oh, part 1. So there’s a part 1?
Jeff:
And then now, the scientists all believe it. They know something’s going on. He’s in charge of it. He is a celebrity because he was the one… He’s on talk shows all the time. He’s dealing with some stuff.
Casey:
Oh, so he’s like, “I told you about HAC. You didn’t believe me but who is laughing now?”
Jeff:
Right. And he’s dealing with it…
Casey:
“Ape ate my ex-girlfriend and I was fine with it. That’s how hard I am.”
Jeff:
So after 5 years, they pick up and they’re steeling with it in a number of ways. It’s a huge problem. There’s large parts of the country that are actually uninhabitable… Most small towns…
Casey:
’Cos the animals are just going crazy…
Jeff:
Are off the grid.
Casey:
The Shih-poos are chasing all the French people out.
Jeff:
Yeah, like, there are…
Casey:
It’s like Texas.
Jeff:
Mile-wide packs of dogs in the Western states…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Eating anything, any humans they come across because, again, it’s only about the humans.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And 5 years later, he just… He’s sitting around by himself. And he figures it all out in an amazing sequence where he’s like, “This all started 16 years ago. What happened 16 years ago?”
Casey:
16 years ago prior to what?
Jeff:
This time period…
Casey:
Which is when?
Jeff:
I don’t know.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
1985 or something. He goes, “Cellphones. It had to be about cellphones.”
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
I’m like, of all the random things you pick, it was the combination of pollution…
Casey:
And cellphones?
Jeff:
And cellphones were taking hydrocarbons and turning them into… What do you call it? Pheromones…
Casey:
Wait, the… So the electromagnetic spectrum radiations from cellphones…
Jeff:
Were changing the… Pollution that’s all around us, Casey…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Into pheromones that made… And this is why it changed it. The males were made hyper-aggressive…
Casey:
Were change--…
Jeff:
The females…
Casey:
Were changing it into…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
How?
Jeff:
Oh, they change stuff, Casey. The waves. The waves, Casey, are coming at the hydrocarbons. You can imagine this…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
If you’re… You know, just imagine this happening…
Casey:
Right. I’m imagining it.
Jeff:
They’re hitting and changing…
Casey:
So somehow, the microwaves turn these hydrocarbons into different ring structures that…
Jeff:
That are strong pheromones…
Casey:
For all… For ALL animals.
Jeff:
For all animals…
Casey:
Because as we know, all animals respond to the exact same pheromones in exactly the same way.
Jeff:
Well, apparently. That was a big question of, like, “Oh, if that’s true, why doesn’t it affect humans?”
Casey:
Why not?
Jeff:
Well, we have… I can’t remember. I wish I’d marked the page.
Casey:
Yeah, you should have.
Jeff:
We do not have the organ that other animals do that respond to pheromones in the same way.
Casey:
Yeah, we don’t have that.
Jeff:
We’ve evolved past that, Casey.
Casey:
Yeah, we don’t have it. All the rest… The hippos and the lions and the monkeys all still have it but just we don’t have it.
Jeff:
So what it turns the animals into is the females go into constant heat and the males are just having sex like crazy with the female. And they are just having more and more animals.
Casey:
Sounds fantastic.
Jeff:
Their breeding rate goes up crazy.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
They’re just kicking out dogs, whatever you have…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And then the males are hyper-aggressive. But it doesn’t explain, Casey, why they attack the humans.
Casey:
No, it doesn’t.
Jeff:
Turns out, we ourselves are emitting some of these new pheromones ourselves. The hydrocarbons is in our water and what we drink. And we are emitting these smells that are then converted by the cellphones…
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
So we are emitting a pheromone that makes them…
Casey:
A different pheromone?
Jeff:
A different pheromone that affects them a different way that makes them fearful and angry and agitated. So they attack any humans because they don’t like the smell of us now because of the cellphones and the hydrocarbons.
Casey:
So everyone involved in this book is fired.
Jeff:
Now, wait…
Casey:
That is the dumbest goddamn… That sounds like fucking Pacific Rim…
Jeff:
Oh, you don’t even…
Casey:
This is a Pacific Rim job right here.
Jeff:
Then… So he’s like, “If that’s it, we may have a solution out of this mess.”
Casey:
Oh, really?
Jeff:
And what they do is they shut the electrical grid down completely. They shut it down…
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
They ask everyone to turn your cellphones off…
Casey:
Dude, it’s called fucking Febreeze. You can buy it in the goddamned drugstore and spray it at the air. This is not a problem.
Jeff:
Nope. They shut down the electrical grid. They forbid all motorized vehicles to be driven.
Casey:
Why?
Jeff:
They then forbid cellphones. And in… Now, it takes, like, ten years for them to get crazed, the animals…
Casey:
This is the dumbest goddamn thing.
Jeff:
The animals take a long time to get to this point, like 20-year period, they get… 15, it was… For them to get full bananas. They shut everything off and in 3 days, things are back to normal. And we cut back to Atilla…
Casey:
This is the stupidest fucking book.
Jeff:
We cut back to Atilla…
Casey:
Hanging out…
Jeff:
In Central Park, like… And they actually…
Casey:
“Oh, man, I went on a crazy bender. I can’t believe I ate that girl.”
Jeff:
That’s what he’s like. “I’m so tired. I can’t believe the anger feeling is gone.” And he eats an orange in Central Park.
Casey:
Delicious.
Jeff:
Like… There’s no orange trees in Central Park.
Casey:
That’s fine. Don’t worry about it.
Jeff:
That’s fine.
Casey:
This was not shot on location, okay…
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
This is… We just imagined [inaudible 77:03]
Jeff:
And he just lays out there.
Casey:
Maybe he bought it from a street vendor.
Jeff:
3 days later, when they’re realizing everything’s working, he’s on duty of collecting the dead, going out and finding all the people. And he’s very upset. They see horrible things of all these people that were killed by animals.
Casey:
But he’s just like, “Hey, that’s my ex-mailman. Oh, yeah. It is now,” or whatever.
Jeff:
Yeah. Right.
Casey:
Like, he doesn’t care.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
He’s just like, “Yeah, there’s some people with their faces missing…
Jeff:
And messed with him… So then, he happens upon a senator…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Who drives up in a Hummer…
Casey:
Ooh…
Jeff:
Talking on a cellphone…
Casey:
One of the armored ones or one of the unarmored ones?
Jeff:
Just his own personal Hummer.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And he’s like, “What the fuck?”And he’s yelling guy and he’s like, “I have a permission slip.” And there’s arguing. And he’s like, “We’re beating this and now they’re allowing people to do this again?” And he’s, like, angry…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And he’s like, “These fucking people…”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And pretty soon, sure enough, in New York…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Slowly the air conditioners start turning back on with generators…
Casey:
Yeah, they do. Yep.
Jeff:
People start forgetting. It’s been three days. In New York, there were tens of thousands of people being eaten alive by rats. But in three days, they’re turning their air conditioners back on because they don’t think about the future, Casey.
Casey:
So here’s…
Jeff:
This is a parable about human [inaudible 78:20] And of course, after 3 days… After this, it escalates. Animals start attacking again. This time, there’s nothing they can do…
Casey:
Why not?
Jeff:
I don’t know.
Casey:
Yeah, nobody knows.
Jeff:
They flee to Greenland…
Casey:
Good place to go, yeah.
Jeff:
They go to Greenland on a Harrier.
Casey:
I see.
Jeff:
The book then ends. It ends in a dark place, Casey.
Casey:
I’m sure it does.
Jeff:
And you know why? Because I bet we’re gonna see…
Casey:
The book is a dark place…
Jeff:
The “Zoo 2” coming…
Casey:
“Zoo 2” Greenland…
Jeff:
Probably this time next year… Well, maybe next time next month because I bet they can kick these things out like nobody’s business.
Casey:
I don’t think that book took a very long time to write.
Jeff:
Nope, I don’t think so.
Casey:
[inaudible 78:58] So Jeff…
Jeff:
There’s actually also what’s kind of amazing… There’s two or three misspellings. And you don’t see that in a published book very often…
Casey:
You do now.
Jeff:
I suppose, yeah.
Casey:
Nobody proofreads anything anymore.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I was reading, like, a Time magazine article. Anything goes. Like, you just pick up a Time Magazine, there’s, like words missing. You’re just like… Sentences don’t have any periods at the end of them. They’re like, paragraphs just ends and it just is, you know, like where was the punctuation? It’s like, don’t know, don’t care.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s like, it’s just gone. So the thing that’s interesting about this book is if the problem is carbon rings in the air, like… I mean, I’m not joking. You could just spray some Febreeze. Like, this is a completely solved scientific problem. It’s completely solved…
Jeff:
Casey, I think you’re missing…
Casey:
If the problem is that the animals are, like, following the scent of humans, you would just literally, like… Or put on a suit. People in a hazmat suit could not be attacked because they wouldn’t be found. They wouldn’t be sniffed out in this angry way.
Jeff:
I think, Casey, you don’t understand what’s going on here.
Casey:
No, I don’t.
Jeff:
I think you’d be one of those HAC doubters and like… You know what…
Casey:
Yeah, I’d be in a Hummer. I’d be in a Hummer getting my face eaten by a chimp.
Jeff:
By the way…
Casey:
I’m fine with this book, by the way, because here’s the thing…
Jeff:
Wait. By the way, Atilla, at the end of the book, leads all the animals on New York rampage.
Casey:
Good.
Jeff:
He is the… He turns out to be the leader of all those…
Casey:
Because she’s pretty smart, yeah.
Jeff:
’Cos he has all the other monkeys…
Casey:
Yeah, he knows…
Jeff:
It doesn’t explain why… He’s not super smart…
Casey:
Doesn’t matter.
Jeff:
But he’s leading and he doesn’t even have to say anything. The pheromones communicate.
Casey:
Yeah, they do.
Jeff:
And so he, like, directs rats into the thing…
Casey:
Yeah, that happened.
Jeff:
Now, be the way, when he sang all this…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
He always says this, “There’s a monkey and it seemed like he was directing the troops. But if you look closely, he was wearing a little red hat.”
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
That’s so you know it’s Atilla because Atilla disappears wearing a little red hat…
Casey:
He never took it off.
Jeff:
Right. But every time he uses that as a way to identify the thing.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
I laughed out while I’m reading…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Because I’m like, you could’ve said, “with the scar along face that he got from being in the medical testing lab.”
Casey:
Yeah. Right.
Jeff:
Nope. It’s the scary…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Uber monkey…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
That is controlling the animal hindmind of New York.
Casey:
In a little cute red cap…
Jeff:
Is in a little cute cap. It’s adorable…
Casey:
Fez.
Jeff:
Like, it pulls it down…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
He’s wearing overalls.
Casey:
I don’t really know what to say. That is…
Jeff:
It’s amazingly bad.
Casey:
Absolutely terrible.
Jeff:
I’m even leaving out the crazy love story part. There’s some hysterical parts where he’s describing how he feels about the girl. Ugh… It’s quality.
Casey:
I’m sure he has some good ways of putting that out there.
Jeff:
Quality. Also, I really like being on page 99 and it being, like, chapter 82. It was almost a chapter a page.
Casey:
I will say that he… That book does fall squarely into the Hollywood category, though.
Jeff:
Oh, yeah.
Casey:
Like, that’s exactly the kind of thing you’d see in a movie where they’re like, “It’s the pheromones and there’s nothing we can do about it.” You’re just like, “Wait. Wait. Wait.”
Jeff:
So 2 things about it that I thought…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
One is you totally see the James Patterson where it’s like… He just has a notes file somewhere and he’s like…
Casey:
Right, right, right.
Jeff:
“Animal zombies…”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And that got writ from it.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
That’s also exactly what would give Hollywood a hard on.
Casey:
Right, they’d be like, “Oh, animal zombies, yeah.”
Jeff:
Animals attacking everybody and they’re like, “What animals just…”
Casey:
Yeah. Think “Springbreaker 4” CGI, fish.
Jeff:
Yeah. But you know, the thing is when Hollywood adapts “Zoo”, all the real “Zoo” fanatics are gonna be like, “Oh, they’re probably gonna totally change the ending. You know, they’re gonna commercialize it.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
“And it’s not gonna be what the book was about. It’s not gonna be about cellphones and…”
Casey:
Atilla saves the day at the end. He was the bad guy in the original. He had that red cap on the whole time. Where’d the red cap go? That was like his signature look.
Jeff:
Yeah. It was funny reading this and then, just this weekend, seeing all the commercials for the new “Planet of the Apes”. It’s very hard not to see that.
Casey:
Oh, which is based on that thing? Yeah.
Jeff:
Yeah. And I will say the previous “Planet of the Apes”, I liked that movie a lot. And it was not… The concepts…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Were not…
Casey:
Were not dissimilar.
Jeff:
Completely dissimilar to this. It was a monkey living at home that takes Alzheimer drugs and becomes super smart…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And then goes on a rampage.
Casey:
Like all things…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
It is not so much about what the idea is…
Jeff:
Yes, it’s execution.
Casey:
It’s about the execution. This is the problem with patents in the first like is like, ideas are actually pretty easy to come up with.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Sitting around and going, “Animals attack humans,” like, that’s not that hard.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
The hard part is writing the good book that goes along with that. And in this case, James Patterson, via the conduit of Michael Ledgwig did not necessarily bring his A-game (or even a game at all) to the pages of “Zoo”, a novel you should not rush out to buy.
Jeff:
I was really interested in, like, how much he actually writes himself now.
Casey:
Wait, how do you know?
Jeff:
I don’t know.
Casey:
Oh, you’re saying you’re interested… You would be interested to find out? Yeah, I would be, as well. Probably nothing. Probably he doesn’t.
Jeff:
Well, on the back it says this (to answer a previous question you had or postulate you had said), “James Patterson has had more New York Times Bestseller than any other writer according to Guinness World Records.”
Casey:
There you go.
Jeff:
“Since his first novel won the Edgar Prize in 1977…”
Casey:
What is the Edgar Prize?
Jeff:
I don’t know.
Casey:
Me neither.
Jeff:
“His books have sold more than 280 million copies.”
Casey:
Insane.
Jeff:
That’s books. I mean, we’re not talking TV or super bullshit.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
They sold 280 million of these $11.95 horse shit.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Unless everybody got free ones in the airplane like us.
Casey:
Well, no, because that’s sales. So for every one of those, those could be left on an airplane, there could’ve been… What was it? 560 million people reading “Zoo”.
Jeff:
This is like… This is totally… There’s a billion people who want to experience VR. There’s a billion people… I between James Patterson gets to a billion people before Oculus does.
Casey:
Well, we know that will be true. There’s no question that James Patterson will get to a billion people before Oculus. No question. I mean… Well, okay… There aren’t a billion people who can afford a VR headset.
Jeff:
No, I’m just saying…
Casey:
So we don’t even… It’s not even a question about who will get to a billion first.
Jeff:
Both numbers, I feel, are pretty absurd anyway but…
Casey:
He’s already got 280 million.
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
That’s 280 million more people than Oculus.
Jeff:
But now, that means he has to write 4 times the number of books that were on that list. That’s a wicked lot of books, my friend.
Casey:
Well, close to 3 times potentially maybe? No, not really.
Jeff:
I don’t know. It’s rough.
Casey:
You’re right. It’s sort of 3 and a half times.
Jeff:
Anyway, I got a kick out of reading that. We were laughing pretty hard.
Casey:
It does make me want to see what some of the other James Patterson ghostwriting canon… Like, if you look for books that have both James Patterson and some other name on them…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I would like to see some of the other books in that.
Jeff:
Yeah, the other winners.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And I would like to see a “Zoo 2.” I would like to see what happens in Greenland.
Jeff:
Yeah. I bet it’s just… You know what, they’ll probably get some hack writer to write this sequel. It’s not gonna be a Michael Ledgwig situation.
Casey:
It’s not gonna be Ledgwig. They can’t afford it.
Jeff:
No, it’s gonna be [inaudible 86:30]
Casey:
Yeah, Ledgwig’s on the new IP. We need him to launch series for us. Anyone can just follow up a “Zoo 2”.
Jeff:
I’m also curious how many they sold…
Casey:
Oh, like…
Jeff:
Because everything about it is about Patterson. Like, it says, “World’s Number 1 Bestselling Writer”.
Casey:
Let me see that.
Jeff:
It’s on the top. There’s nothing about the book itself.
Casey:
It does say the [ terrifying ] Number 1 Bestseller on the back.
Jeff:
Oh, okay.
Casey:
So, I don’t know.
Jeff:
Maybe he just comes out with a book and everyone… All of his loyal fans just… You know…
Casey:
So it does say, “For previews and information about the author, visit JamesPatterson.com,” which we have not been to. So that may be a good site to visit for future information.
Jeff:
I bet that’s a great website.
Casey:
I bet that is a great website. I see Canadians are still getting fucked. It’s $10 US, $11 Canadian. But the exchange rate is even.
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
So they’re just flat out paying a fucking Dollar extra for this…
Jeff:
Fine quality…
Casey:
Crappy novel, yeah.
Jeff:
They have way more animals up there so, you know, they’re probably in more trouble than us.
Casey:
Well, it may be true.
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
But who knows if they don’t have as much hydrocarbons probably.
Jeff:
Oh, you’re right.
Casey:
They don’t have as much Hummers and senators running around.
Jeff:
And just fewer cellphones.
Casey:
Just fewer cellphones in general. Yeah.
Jeff:
Yeah, in general. That’s right. Well, everybody, sorry to put you through that. But if I take one…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You’re gonna have to take one.
Casey:
I don’t know if that’s a funny podcast or just depressing at the end of the day, what just happened there.
Jeff:
Yeah. Well, it’s #5 on the USA Today list.
Casey:
Hour and a half, that was.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
Jesus Christ. Alright.
Jeff:
I can throw this book away now.
Casey:
Well, we’re sorry to have wasted your time…
Jeff:
That’s right.
Casey:
Like we wasted Jeff’s and mine. If you have a fantastic book you would like us to examine for the podcast…
Jeff:
That’s true. We do…
Casey:
You are welcome to send it in.
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
I know people have sent in “Taken by T-Rex”. We haven’t gotten to that yet.
Jeff:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Casey:
We could probably order a copy of that.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I don’t think it exists in hard cover. I don’t think it exists in physical form. We have to just find an ebook.
Jeff:
We’ll probably have to make an Amazon account to order, correct?
Casey:
I can get it online. I have one.
Jeff:
No. I have one, too. It’s just I don’t know if we want that to be on the record. That’s the T-Rex…
Casey:
“Taken by T-Rex”, T-Rex erotica.
Jeff:
Yes, T-Rex erotica.
Casey:
What kind of world are we living in if you cannot proudly purchase T-Rex erotic fiction and not be judged, Jeff…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
By an Amazon algorithm…
Jeff:
Well, I think you’re gonna get, like, people who ordered T-Rex… What was it called again?
Casey:
“Taken by T-Rex”.
Jeff:
“Taken by T-Rex”, also ordered… Everything on that list is going to be gold.
Casey:
I’m proud right now that my book is kind of… And this will probably get… When it does the Kindle Singles thing which I guess will be Monday or whatever… Well, okay…
Jeff:
Very soon.
Casey:
When you hear this, it will already have happened.
Jeff:
Yeah, this is pre-taped quality show.
Casey:
Unfortunately. But it’s like, yeah, I think [ that’ll get washed away ] but that was my proudest moment is going on to my book’s thing. And because listeners to this podcast actually had… Not because of the podcast but had gone and… I had posted a thing that was like, you know, literary humor or whatever. And they were like… Somebody wrote back and was like, “Oh, it’s got stiff competition,” and pointed to “Taken by T-Rex”.
Jeff:
Amazing.
Casey:
So we all went and looked at “Taken by T-Rex” right after having looked at my book. So it kind of associated the two books in there…
Jeff:
Awesome.
Casey:
Which is the only reason that you can get to “Taken by T-Rex” from my book right now.
Jeff:
That is awesome.
Casey:
We don’t really have a whole lot else in common. It does make me want to write a piece of dinosaur erotica now. I just haven’t done my research. I haven’t read anything in the genre. I haven’t even read “Taken by T-Rex”. So I need to do my research…
Jeff:
I think it’ll be interesting because usually, you’re always talking about “his hot body pressed up against mine” and no, they’re cold blooded. They’d be like “his body that was the exact same temperature as mine, pressed up against me”…
Casey:
“His body quickly adjusted to my temperature…”
Jeff:
His body quickly adjusted… That’s awesome.
Casey:
I kinda… I feel like I have to do it.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I kinda have to put up a piece of dinosaur erotica. I don’t know what it should be called is the only problem.
Jeff:
“His brain was pea-sized but not…”
Casey:
Yes. Right, right, right. Yeah.
Jeff:
Yeah, that’s gonna be good action.
Casey:
Yeah. I don’t really know.
Jeff:
You know… What’s the guy that wrote… I’m blanking right now.
Casey:
“Jurassic Pork”?
Jeff:
No, the graphic novel from hell…
Casey:
Ah, Alan Moore.
Jeff:
Alan Moore.
Casey:
I was still trying to think of names for my T-Rex fiction.
Jeff:
What I was gonna say is Alan Moore wrote a book that… Not a graphic novel, an actual book, where he talks about the magic inherent in one little square block of London.
Casey:
Oh, right, right, right, right…
Jeff:
Where it’s like, a whole bunch of famous writers have lived on this block…
Casey:
I see what you’re saying.
Jeff:
And, like, it’s been around.
Casey:
I’ve heard of this book.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You told me about it, I think, a long time ago.
Jeff:
Right. And we may even have talked about it on a podcast. But the first chapter is written by a caveman…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Or Pre-Neanderthal… [inaudible 91:28] like, he thought…
Casey:
Right…
Jeff:
It’s like…
Casey:
Oh, weird…
Jeff:
And then you have to… And they talk to each other. And apparently, if you read it enough times, you can be like, “Oh, I get what they’re saying.”
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
That would be… If you did dinosaur erotica where it’s just “Roar roar. Roar roar roar roar…” The whole thing, like, 30 pages… You could do that, actually, because you can self-publish. And then, have the whole thing, like, “Oh, if you read it enough, you’ll really get the subtext.”
Casey:
But I don’t want to do avant-garde dinosaur erotica. I want to ship a legitimate dinosaur erotica fiction piece that I can point to and say, “If you have a thing (and I mean a thing) for dinosaurs…”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
“Wait ‘til you experience the hot action in Casey Muratori’s…” Whatever… And you’re not helping with the name here. I feel like there’s got to be…
Jeff:
Wait. So I’m curious about “Taken by T-Rex”. It’s 2 dinosaurs doing it? Or it’s a human…
Casey:
[inaudible 92:32]
Jeff:
Wait, is a human being taken by the T-Rex?
Casey:
Yeah, yeah. I feel like… It’s like… Well, like I said, I haven’t read it. I’ll have to go read some dinosaur erotica to find out. But I believe it’s, like, the T-Rex fucks a girl or a guy, a human male or female. I don’t know if it’s guys or for girls or what’s going on here. But, like, whoever wants to receive the erotica action… It’s probably female because I feel like erotica in book form is usually more towards female. So it’s probably a female getting done by a dinosaur or she’s doing the dinosaur or something. I don’t know what’s happening. I don’t know who’s on top.
Jeff:
Is it a really big human that’s the size of the T-Rex?
Casey:
Dude, I don’t know I haven’t read the book yet.
Jeff:
You have to get the book. Alright.
Casey:
We will find these… These are the kinds of questions that I want to answer.
Jeff:
“His short arms tried to touch me but could not quite reach.”
Casey:
Yes. I don’t know.
Jeff:
Alright, this has gone on way too long. If you want us to review a book, that’s a good idea.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Give us a title, we will look into it.
Casey:
Let us know what it is. We’ll get a copy.
Jeff:
’Cos this was just chance. I never would have heard of this otherwise.
Casey:
We would never have heard of this. So if you have a quality piece of fiction…
Jeff:
That’s right.
Casey:
That you think that Jeff needs to speed-read and then retell to me, please email it to Podcast@JeffAndCaseyShow.com…
Jeff:
That’s right.
Casey:
And we will hopefully eventually get to it.
Jeff:
That’s right. Alright. Well, hey, thank, everybody.
Casey:
Thanks for tuning in and we will see you next week.
Jeff:
See you.
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casey muratori
the jeff and casey show - season 4 - episode 23
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