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No Imperfections Noted
The Jeff and Casey Show
Jeff and Casey Time
Casey Muratori
Seattle, WA
The Wreck of the S.S. Ting-Tangler
Original air date: June 30th, 2014
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Transcript
Jeff:
Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Jeff & Casey Show.
Casey:
Hello and welcome to the…
Jeff:
I was trying to do that fast.
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
Did you notice I was trying to get the timer…
Casey:
But you did it slow.
Jeff:
I know.
Casey:
It actually took longer that time than it normally does.
Jeff:
I panicked.
Casey:
You did panic. So I have a question for you based on the previous podcast, the problems that we had, actually.
Jeff:
Okay. What were our problems?
Casey:
Where is your phone?
Jeff:
My phone? Yeah, that’s far away.
Casey:
It’s far away?
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
Okay, it’s far away. And is there anything happening outside the window right now that is likely to distract you in the middle of things?
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
A giant cargo ship, cruise liner…
Jeff:
The cruise liner’s there…
Casey:
Tug boat…
Jeff:
But it may be leaving.
Casey:
It may be leaving. Uh-oh. Alright…
Jeff:
Do you think this will be the last episode at this podcast studios?
Casey:
This may be… So Jeff is moving, everyone. Jeff is moving. Unfortunately, his neighborhood…
Jeff:
Neighborhood has become so crazy…
Casey:
Yes. Has rapidly deteriorated. So I actually… This is, I suppose, on the topic of your neighborhood rapidly deteriorating… Remember yesterday…
Jeff:
Yes?
Casey:
We pulled into your… You know, we were kind of pulling around the corner to drive into the garage here…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And I said something like, “Have the police been through here? It looks unusually clean.”
Jeff:
Yeah, there were just no…
Casey:
Like, there was nobody on the street…
Jeff:
We always…
Casey:
There was nobody there.
Jeff:
The big thing you notice in my neighborhood is, like, big… At the corner, there are just…
Casey:
Tons of people…
Jeff:
Packs of 4 or 5 people…
Casey:
Yes, often more.
Jeff:
All turning and facing each other…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And they’re transact--… I mean, they’re selling drugs, right?
Casey:
Yeah. It would be very unlikely that they were there to discuss just politics or something.
Jeff:
No, no, no. Yeah, they’re there. And between that and just the… I don’t know how [inaudible 1:39] other than debris…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
It’s like, we’re… Like, stuff just…
Casey:
Yeah, there is just shit on the street, yeah.
Jeff:
It’s just thrown on the street and then it’s blowing around which is crazy ‘cos Seattle’s super green.
Casey:
Yes. Anyway, so we drove around the corner there…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And we were like, “Wow, it looks abnormally clear. Like, someone…”
Jeff:
“There’s nobody here.”
Casey:
Like, the cops went through there or whatever which maybe happened… I don’t really know.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Anyway, we drop you off. We pulled out of your driveway because we went in that tunnel, right? We didn’t end up going into your garage because we were just dropping you off. So we dropped you guys off…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
We pulled out. And we pull out and we go to make a left turn on second. So we’re going to take a left turn on to, like, Pike or whatever, right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And, I am not exaggerating, there is a dude beating another dude with, like, a big old stick thing. Like, it was like a real, honest to God, beating…
Jeff:
Holy shit.
Casey:
In the road, okay? And so, I’m like… I’m not driving. Ginger’s driving. And I’m like, “Whoa!” Like, I’m thinking, “Wait, should I call the cops or is there something more intelligent to do here?” I like, have started… Thankfully, I don’t actually have to think it through because some big dude, like this big Black dude comes over who, like… No one’s gonna mess with this guy. Like, I was looking like… This guy looked, like, brutal…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
He was like a football player build, right? He comes over and, like, stops the guy who is beating. And like, the guy who was beating the guy with a stick was not a particularly strong looking individual…
Jeff:
Right, right…
Casey:
So kinda, like, went away. And the big, strong guy helps this dude up off the street. So I was like, “Oh, that was very nice of him.” No… I mean, that was the end of the transaction…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So, I’m like, I don’t know who all these people were or what was going on exactly…
Jeff:
So this all happened right in front of you. You’re parked at the light, watching this…
Casey:
Yes, and this happens…
Jeff:
And you’re just like, “Alright…”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
“Nope, they haven’t been by. They just all gathered to watch the stick fight, probably…”
Casey:
I don’t know…
Jeff:
They all ran over to see what was happening.
Casey:
Well, I don’t know what happened exactly but I was very happy that that huge, strong dude was there because… Like, no one was gonna mess with that dude…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So, like, when he decided that the fight was not… I don’t know if he just was walking around and saw the fight and was displeased by it. So he came over and wanted to stop it. That was great ‘cos like… I feel like that dude can stop most fights.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
And that’s just not gonna be a lot of [inaudible 3:56]
Jeff:
It’s not gonna escalate.
Casey:
Like, I can’t do that.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Like, I’m not gonna be able to have that kind of a presence when I over the fight…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So anyway, so I was like, “Alright, well, that’s Jeff’s neighborhood again.” It’s like, somehow, you live in…
Jeff:
It’s nuts.
Casey:
Like I said, I looked up the crime statistics and Seattle is still not at all a dangerous city.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So you literally…
Jeff:
I feel like it’s my block.
Casey:
You have literally, somehow, gotten yourself caught in a vortex of spiraling urban decay here. And I don’t know why because you’re supposed to be the 1%. You are supposed to be living in the part of the city with… It’s all… Everything’s fine… Like, everything else is going to shit and you’re in some fancy tower. But that’s not what’s happening.
Jeff:
I will say this for sure.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It is the topic on everybody’s mind in the building. And certainly in the email list that everybody’s talking about… I mean, the mayor has been in the building, like, 3 times in the last 2 weeks…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like, they have enough clout to get the mayor in here and be, like, “Look at what the fuck is going on here.”
Casey:
What? Mayor Murray came to the fucking building?
Jeff:
Yeah. Like, they have come 3 times in the last 2 weeks.
Casey:
Wow.
Jeff:
And so, the scuttlebutt now, the thing, the reason why they think it’s like this is because they think it’s this weird stalemate between the mayor and the police department.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Where their… Because the police department… Our glorious police department…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Which is under Department of Justice, Sanctions…
Casey:
Yes, there is a whole DOJ thing… For those of you who don’t live in Seattle, our cops, despite not having I guess a particularly brutal landscape to keep under control, have had a very bad civil rights record…
Jeff:
Yeah, they…
Casey:
It’s not good.
Jeff:
They tend to over… I’d say overbeat would be the right word, right? They get into some shit.
Casey:
Yes, right. Yeah, I should’ve clarified. I guess anyone listening to this podcast doesn’t know. The dude… So when the big dude came over and stopped the guy from beating the other guy, it wasn’t a cop who was beating the other guy, right?
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
That would’ve been… That was actually on the table probably, actually, right? But, yeah…
Jeff:
The cop didn’t have the stick.
Casey:
Right, yeah.
Jeff:
Just to clarify, there were no cops in this fight.
Casey:
There were no cops involved, yeah. I didn’t realize that could be ambiguous.
Jeff:
So anyway, the latest scuttlebutt is the police are trying to make a point of the fact that they are not allowed to police they want to anymore is going to have this. So…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
They have just retracted from key demographic neighborhoods…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
That have some political pressure…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
With the concept of, like, these people will complain enough, blablabla, the mayor will ease off, whatever… Because the mayor’s office has always been more on the Department of Justice side. It’s generally a liberal…
Casey:
Well, which mayor?
Jeff:
Well, over the last 10 years…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
We’ve had liberal mayors in general.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And they have always been, like, even campaigned on the idea of, like, “We’re gonna fix this problem we have in the Seattle Police Department.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And you can’t… Like…
Casey:
It doesn’t work that way?
Jeff:
It doesn’t work that way. And it takes a long time for those things to change because there’s a lot of internal cliques and pressures that prevent…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
I mean, ‘cos New York took… When they were absolute… They’re still nuts.
Casey:
Oh, they’re beyond nuts, dude.
Jeff:
Yeah. But they were absolutely corrupt in the 70’s…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Where it wasn’t like they are now where they’re like… No, these are just normal brutal cops or they’re targeting minorities with their stop and search stuff.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
This was like, no, they just were on the take.
Casey:
Oh, okay. I see. Yeah.
Jeff:
And it took a long time to fix that. And in fact, I believe it was Giuliani in the prosecutor’s office who was the one who brought a lot of those people and…
Casey:
Okay. I see.
Jeff:
Changed it. But it takes forever to change and like… Anyway… So the current guess, what people are telling each other in the building is that we’re just caught in this weird stare down between the mayor’s office, the DOJ and the Seattle Police Department.
Casey:
Weird.
Jeff:
And I see that and I go, “I’m out.”
Casey:
“I’m out of here.” Right.
Jeff:
Those are 3 people I don’t have any interest in, right?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
First off, I’m getting stoned occasionally…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And I don’t need to have the mayor, the police, and various criminal elements…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Mixing things up somewhere where I could get caught in the crossfire, right?
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Where you’re just like, no… So, I’m like, I’m retracting…
Casey:
Yep, you’re retracting.
Jeff:
Yeah, I’m retracting.
Casey:
Retrenching, you might say.
Jeff:
I’m retrenching over into Kirkland…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Which, A, also fixes one problem which is when I usually am in Washington…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
I’m spending a lot of time at RAD so that cuts [ on the drive ]…
Casey:
It also fixes another problem which is that if you were…
Jeff:
[ I have some juice problem ]…
Casey:
If you were distracted by something interesting… Kirkland, fortunately, has the benefit of not having anything interesting.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So you will be completely untempted to do anything other than focus on whatever it is that you want to do.
Jeff:
Maybe but…
Casey:
So that’s good…
Jeff:
’Cos part of me going back to Kirkland was like, “I don’t want to move back into a house or a condo and just be in the same situation I’m in now.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So I made the conscious decision that if I was moving back there, I was going to do something crazy.
Casey:
Right, yes.
Jeff:
Which I did.
Casey:
Yes, unfortunately, apparently you have. So for those of you who don’t know Jeff very well…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
I will start off with the fact that Jeff is the only person who I’ve ever met who has actually crashed a car into the side of the building, okay…
Jeff:
Well, it was [inaudible 9:13]
Casey:
Off the ground…
Jeff:
It was off the ground…
Casey:
So the car… Like, I realize there may be some… And there’s probably very few people… Like, it’s a small percentage of people at all who have crashed cars into buildings to begin with. But the number of people who have crashed cars into buildings above the plane at which the car was driving is impressive…
Jeff:
That was a confluence of events.
Casey:
Okay, but I’m just saying…
Jeff:
So it was not…
Casey:
So just getting that out there. For those of you who don’t know, we’ll just put that out there and now we will say that Jeff has decided…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
In his infinitesimal wisdom, that he needs his own boat.
Jeff:
Yes, so here’s the situation. Now I’m not talking… This is… Okay, so when we went on vacation recently, we rented this little [ shippered ] boat.
Casey:
We, not you and me, though. Just you…
Jeff:
No, no, no. Yeah, me and Dawn. And you could rent these boats for a hundred Euros for an afternoon or something…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And we drove around this island and it was awesome.
Casey:
Okay. What kind of boats are we talking about here?
Jeff:
Oh, a little… I mean, it was a… Inflatable tubes with a boat in the middle…
Casey:
Okay, I know what you’re talking about.
Jeff:
Yeah. I mean, it was pretty big.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You could have 8 people on it. But…
Casey:
I know what you’re talking about.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Those are like the [ Green Peace ] special basically, what you’re talking about…
Jeff:
Yeah, kinda.
Casey:
Right? Yeah.
Jeff:
And so anyway, it was fun. And so, when we came back and I was like, “I’ve got to move out of this place. It’s nuts.” And I’m, like, looking. And I’m kind of depressed. I’m like, “Oh, I’m gonna go to all these places in the East side. They’re gonna be boring…”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It’ll be the same basic thing that either I was living in a suburb before or I’m living in a condo just with less cool view and options and stuff like that.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And I was like, “Okay, wait.” I remembered something. I remember the boat. So I was like, “Wait, I’ll get a shitty… If I find a house on Lake Washington that has a slip, then I can get a [ shitbird ] boat.”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And if I don’t like the boat…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
This is the best part.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
First off, I looked on boats. Boats are wicked cheap.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
They’re like…
Casey:
What do you mean… First of all, define boat and then define cheap. So the boat that you’re looking for is like one of these boats you drove where it’s two inflatable things?
Jeff:
No. Like… I don’t… Those aren’t really… I don’t see a lot of those here.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But no, just like a waterskiing boat.
Casey:
So like a little motorboat.
Jeff:
Yeah, yeah, basically…
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
I mean, they’re pretty fast…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But like, the good one of these little boats is, like, 15K…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Which is a lot of money but, like, cheaper than any car you’d buy.
Casey:
Right, yeah.
Jeff:
And so, I’m like, “If I hate the boat…” Like, if everything goes wrong…
Casey:
Right…
Jeff:
If this boat is driving me fucking crazy.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
You just sink the boat.
Casey:
Where?
Jeff:
You just go off, like 30 feet…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And I assume there’s a plug at the bottom. I haven’t really looked at the…
Casey:
Nope, it doesn’t work that way probably but alright…
Jeff:
I’m pretty sure there’s a plug.
Casey:
[ You think ] there’s a plug that you pull? Alright…
Jeff:
You pull it and it’s all…
Casey:
But then, what do you do? Swim back?
Jeff:
I swim back to the shore because I’ll have my lifejacket on and it’ll be fine.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But like, you can’t… The only way… I’ve talked about how I hate the Tesla and I was gonna jump it in the ocean someday…
Casey:
Right, okay.
Jeff:
I feel like there’s some trouble there you could get into.
Casey:
What is the trouble?
Jeff:
I don’t know, pollution or something.
Casey:
But the boat is not polluting?
Jeff:
Well, no. I can claim it was an accident. So this podcast…
Casey:
And you can’t claim that the Tesla running into the ocean was an accident?
Jeff:
No, because I have to set up like a jump to leap it in there.
Casey:
But anyone who knows you would believe that. Everyone would believe that. If you went, right, to the… Let’s say there’s a trial. There’s a criminal trial. And you…
Jeff:
This is evidence, what I’m doing now… This is totally fucking my plan.
Casey:
Right… There’s a criminal trial… That’s true. It’s unfortunate. Yeah.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
But let’s say there’s a criminal trial. Well, first of all, no one listens to this podcast. So you’re fine.
Jeff:
That is true.
Casey:
You’re totally fine. No one’s gonna know. The prosecution will never find it.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
But let’s say there’s a criminal trial, right?
Jeff:
Also, they can’t hear it because we’ve compressed it wrong or something…
Casey:
Yeah, exactly. And you don’t stay anywhere near the microphone. Pull that shit up next to you.
Jeff:
I’ll get closer.
Casey:
Okay, yes. Hump the mic.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
So anyway, basically, if there is a criminal trial and they pull you in, right, and you’re on the stand and whatever… Well, you probably wouldn’t take the stand, right? You have the right not to testify at your own trial. So you wouldn’t take the stand.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Basically what they’re going to do…
Jeff:
I’d probably be wet.
Casey:
That’s right. You’re wet. You still have the lifejacket on. You’re sitting there. The defense lawyer has the easiest job in the world here, defense counsel, right, because all they have to do is find a bunch of character witnesses to testify that jumping a Tesla into the water without considering the consequences is absolutely something you would do. And they can pick anyone. Like, anyone who knows you…
Jeff:
No, that’s not true.
Casey:
Would happily go in… And you won’t even have to tell them to lie because as long as they don’t know that you did it on purpose, they’ll think you didn’t think about it. They’ll just be like, “Yeah, Jeff never thinks about that shit. I’m surprised he only jumped one car into the water.” Like, you know, that’s…
Jeff:
So you’re saying there’s reasonable doubt?
Casey:
Oh, absolutely. No one’s gonna think you did it on purpose. So I don’t know, you might get in trouble for the equivalent of like, pollutional manslaughter. Like, “I didn’t intend to pollute but I did…”
Jeff:
I see. Right.
Casey:
I don’t know if that’s a statute of some kind. Like, I don’t know… I don’t know the RCW as it pertains to pollution in this way.
Jeff:
It’d be like bio-slaughter.
Casey:
But yeah. It’s like, if you… That, you’d be in trouble because it’s your Tesla, you jumped it, it’s gonna be hard to get out of that. It’s like the Tesla… Somebody else put it… Like, that’s probably not gonna fly. But assuming that you have to prove that the person was intentionally littering and could’ve stopped it by just considering his actions, then I think you’re totally fine.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So, I think you’re good.
Jeff:
Okay. Well, in any case, I have what I call… So then, I started, by the way, reading about… Just to finish this [inaudible 14:46]
Casey:
Right. Oh, sorry. No, that was just a tangent. You can come back to it.
Jeff:
No, I’m just gonna say the last thing is… I was thinking about this fact of, like, “Shit, I could just buy this boat off Craigslist. There’s a whole shit ton of them.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And then just have them drive it right up at the place…
Casey:
Dump it… Yeah.
Jeff:
Yeah. And then…
Casey:
So here’s the…
Jeff:
And then I was like, “I’m sure there’s, like, the equivalent of a driver’s license but for boats…”
Casey:
Right, right. Yeah, you would think. And honestly, you are kind of the case where they should know that but yes…
Jeff:
No, because…
Casey:
But they don’t have that…
Jeff:
No, because I just had the experience in a foreign land where I learned how to use all the stuff, the [ skootchers ]…
Casey:
Yeah, but we don’t honor foreign driver’s licenses, either…
Jeff:
No, that’s true but…
Casey:
So I don’t think that matters.
Jeff:
In any case, I looked online. Turns out..
Casey:
Also… Can we also say one thing, just track record-wise? All I ever hear… And I realize this is like the [ plural of anecdote is data ], but they’re always like, “Yeah, the Italian cruise ship captain was screwing around with somebody while the giant cruise liner hit the rock…”
Jeff:
Oh, I see. Yeah.
Casey:
Right. So…
Jeff:
I will say…
Casey:
I’m not looking for… I would recommend against us honoring foreign captain’s licenses…
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
Because frankly, it doesn’t sound like it’s been going that well.
Jeff:
Yeah. Well, I will say this. There was not a lot of safety training when we rented that boat.
Casey:
I would imagine that.
Jeff:
We gave them a hundred Euros. And literally, 10 minutes later, we are on the ocean. I mean, and this was the ocean. This wasn’t…
Casey:
Right. Yeah, right, it wasn’t a lake.
Jeff:
We were… It’s like…
Casey:
It was full on.
Jeff:
We were just doing it.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And they gave us a map that was a cartoon. So it was a cartoon of the island with, like, hotspots kind of, like, happy and big and smiling…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
We didn’t find them all because they weren’t… They didn’t look anything like the map.
Casey:
What’s a hotspot?
Jeff:
They’re like, “Go to this grotto…”
Casey:
Wi-fi? Oh…
Jeff:
No, it was not a Wi-fi hotspot.
Casey:
That’d be awesome.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
“Drive over here and then you can use your laptop. So what is the plan? So let’s say…
Jeff:
So it turns out, you don’t need a license, though.
Casey:
No, you don’t.
Jeff:
You need to take a safety class. I was like, “Oh, shit. I’m gonna have to figure out a system for that ‘because I don’t want any part of that.”
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
But then, turns out…
Casey:
Right…
Jeff:
That they offer them online…
Casey:
University of Phoenix…
Jeff:
Exactly. Not only that, it gets better…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
It costs $24 but you don’t have to pay until you pass.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So you don’t… I’m gonna just try it first.
Casey:
Okay, right, right…
Jeff:
And just see, like, is this gonna be like lots of DUI stuff. Like, you know when you go on the road [ and ] like, “I don’t know these numbers. I’m never gonna use them,” right?
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And so, I just remember, out of the 20 questions when I took my license, like, five were on DUI, like “greater than this” and “how many cocktails equals a beer”, all this stuff that I’m never gonna need.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And then… So I assume there’d be a similar thing on the boat thing where I do it and there’s a whole bunch of technicalities and stuff like that.
Casey:
Right, right, right.
Jeff:
But I don’t have to pay until I pass. So I just keep doing it. But it was amazing.
Casey:
Wait, you already did it?
Jeff:
No, I just went to the website…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And looked at the front page. It’s all in Flash…
Casey:
Oh, good.
Jeff:
And like, it’s a little boat with a smiley face…
Casey:
Oh, goddamn it.
Jeff:
Like a tugboat. And he’s like, “Hey, welcome…”
Casey:
“Let’s go take the exam, water safety exam.”
Jeff:
Yeah, exactly.
Casey:
Like…
Jeff:
I feel like the only water safety thing is don’t run into…
Casey:
“Don’t worry. If I start to be a real bitch, just drown me in the water and swim back to shore, says Jeff.”
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
Well, that’s what the little boat is saying.
Jeff:
Oh, wait, the boat… I thought you were saying my passengers, like if you get…
Casey:
No…
Jeff:
Okay, the boat?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
You said the boat has a smiley face on it. And you previously said you would just drown your boat. You’d just leave it.
Jeff:
Sink the boat if it gives me too much shit.
Casey:
Yeah, apparently… So here’s a couple questions.
Jeff:
Yes. About the boat?
Casey:
Yeah. I’m not clear… You were basically like, “Okay, good news, guys…” And this is how you kind of introduced this. “Good news, guys, if I don’t like the boat, I just sink the boat.”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Why?
Jeff:
Because…
Casey:
Why not just sell the boat or…
Jeff:
Oh, God, dealing with like…
Casey:
Or leave the boat in the slip. Just don’t take it out. Why would you need to actually, like, scuttle the boat.
Jeff:
Because I think… Because in my mind… You know the [ kooshy ] things?
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
You know, the things I talk about?
Casey:
What’s a [ kooshy ] thing?
Jeff:
That’s a nautical term. It’s those… On the pontoon boat, it was these big things that are on ropes that [ scootch ]…
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
And you put them… You hang them halfway over the side…
Casey:
Oh, those things like for bumpers, like the bumpers…
Jeff:
Yeah, the bumpers…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Yeah, the [ scootchers ]…
Casey:
Okay, what about them?
Jeff:
Well, so if I just leave it in the slip forever…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
I think the [ scootchers ] deteriorate and start fucking up the dock…
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
Which I own… ‘Cos they move around. You’re supposed to take the boat out of the water when it stores…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And I have this one lift that sort of lifts it up but you’re not supposed to leave it there through the winter. I’m gonna ‘cos I’m like, I don’t give a shit…
Casey:
Okay, right.
Jeff:
About the boat because people care about these deteriorating assets that cost so little…
Casey:
Alright…
Jeff:
I don’t care about. So it’s like, the boat’s gonna go…
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
Until the boat no longer operates…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And then I just get rid of the boat. So then… But if I hate the boat, I’m like, dealing with the boat all the time ‘cos I hear a lot of people… These are small boats, though, so I don’t think you have the trouble… You know, people talk about their big boats and it’s just constant work…
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
This is little boats so I’m like, “This is gonna be way less work,” you know, size-wise.
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
So…
Casey:
So in your mind, the amount of work that is required in the boat is somehow, like, proportional, like the surface area of the hull or something…
Jeff:
Yeah, where the volume or something…
Casey:
Okay. Alright, and that may be true. I do not…
Jeff:
I haven’t taken the boat safety class. And they’d probably straighten this out.
Casey:
I doubt they do…
Jeff:
In any case… I forgot where it’s going… But yeah, so I just dump the boat…
Casey:
Well, I was trying to ascertain why you needed to scuttle the ship when you could just leave it in the slip. You think it’s gonna fuck up the dock?
Jeff:
Yeah, I think it’ll just bash around.
Casey:
It’s bash around?
Jeff:
Unless you hoist it out of the water so the waves aren’t pushing it up against the dock… I don’t believe you’re ever supposed to leave the boat just tied up to the dock for any length of time…
Casey:
But that’s how they do dock. I mean, they dock that way.
Jeff:
Yeah, temporarily, not like, “I’m never driving this fucking thing again.”
Casey:
What does temporarily mean?
Jeff:
Like, over… Like this boat here would be here for a day or two. Like, these guys on here…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But if you look down at the little marina thing that’s on there…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Most of the boats are actually out of the water. They’re on some little thing that raises up out of the water that lifts them off.
Casey:
Well, do you have one of those things?
Jeff:
I do.
Casey:
So can’t you just use that?
Jeff:
It’s supposed to be a big production to, like…
Casey:
But you’re never gonna do it again. You’re just gonna do it once and then you never do it again.
Jeff:
Yeah, I suppose that’s true but I… Yeah. I suppose that’s true.
Casey:
So we don’t need… Let’s just… Can we agree not to sink the ship 30 feet off of your property line on Lake Washington…
Jeff:
Well, there’s a whole… There’s a whole separate thing…
Casey:
Can we come to an agreement about that?
Jeff:
No, but then you’ve still got the other problem of just the frustration.
Casey:
What frustration?
Jeff:
You hate the boat…
Casey:
Just leave it there. You walk away.
Jeff:
No, you stare out at it. Every day, I come down for breakfast to eat my eggs and toast and there’s the fucking boat.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I guarantee you. If the boat drives me crazy…
Casey:
You’re sinking it?
Jeff:
It’s gonna get…
Casey:
Sunk?
Jeff:
Well, something’s gonna happen to the boat.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
I don’t know if I’m gonna sink it…
Casey:
On fire… You light it on fire and then sink it.
Jeff:
Either that or I give it to somebody else who wants the boat…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And let it be their problem.
Casey:
Their problem… Now, okay, so let me ask… I have another question…
Jeff:
Yes…
Casey:
Second question…
Jeff:
Also, I don’t think… I also looked this up. You really can’t name boats when they’re tiny.
Casey:
That’s what I was gonna ask.
Jeff:
Oh, okay.
Casey:
My next question was what are you gonna name the boat.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And why can’t you name it? Just ‘cos they’re tiny?
Jeff:
Well, it’s just… It’s not done for the tiny boats.
Casey:
Oh, I’ll tell you what. Here’s another thing that isn’t done, sinking the boat 30 feet off the dock because you don’t like it…
Jeff:
No…
Casey:
So why would that stop you? Why can’t you still name the boat whatever you want? I mean, all you need is a stencil to stencil it on the side.
Jeff:
I’ll just name it “Fuck This Boat Right Before I Sink It”. That’s what I’ll do. Until then…
Casey:
But before you hate it, when you actually still like it, won’t you want to name it something like the Roberts II or whatever…
Jeff:
No, I wouldn’t…
Casey:
The Tingtangler?
Jeff:
That might be good. But no, I don’t think I’d name the boat.
Casey:
You wouldn’t name the boat?
Jeff:
No, I don’t think so.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
But… Yeah, I don’t think it’s normally done.
Casey:
Okay, well that’s fine. If you want to [inaudible 23:01] then I can respect that.
Jeff:
Again, I figure the boat safety class would cover all this. We’ll know shortly.
Casey:
I don’t think the boat safety class…
Jeff:
We can probably go take it together.
Casey:
We could take it together, that’s true. But…
Jeff:
I don’t think they have anything… We’ll only get one laminated card so you’d have to pay $24 if you want your own card.
Casey:
If I want my own card? I don’t want to drive this boat because I don’t like boats. So I won’t be on this boat.
Jeff:
Oh, you’re gonna come on the boat.
Casey:
No, I’m not gonna come on the boat.
Jeff:
Because we’ve explained that I’m not driving ever on the bridge again. I’m just taking the boat over.
Casey:
But then, why would that involve me being on the boat?
Jeff:
Well, if I have to come get you, I would drive the boat to South Lake Union. You’ll get on the boat…
Casey:
I’ll take the bus. I’m not coming on the boat.
Jeff:
But it’ll be so much faster.
Casey:
That’s probably true because the bus is slow as shit but I’m still not coming on the boat.
Jeff:
No, you get on the boat. You put on a life preserver and you’re fine.
Casey:
I don’t like boats. I hate them.
Jeff:
You don’t have to like it. It’s like, 10 minutes of, like, saturated boat time and then it’s all done…
Casey:
But I don’t want 10 minutes. I don’t like boats. Boats make me nervous. They can sink. And now I know I would be with the a captain who will sink the boat at the slightest provocation from said boat…
Jeff:
I promise I won’t sink it…
Casey:
Which by the way, boats break down all the fucking time, I’m sure. So the chances that you won’t be annoyed with this boat are, like, zero. Like, there’s no percent chance of that.
Jeff:
I actually feel like it’s 50-50 that I’ll be annoyed with the boat.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But I’ve never… I’ve never even… I’ve been on maybe 5 boats in my life.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And so…
Casey:
Total?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Really?
Jeff:
Yes, so I figured…
Casey:
Including ferries and shit?
Jeff:
Oh, no. Not counting ferries.
Casey:
You mean like personal boats?
Jeff:
Like boats that are small that…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Yeah. That you’d have to take the wheel…
Casey:
Right, right…
Jeff:
When in doubt, I’d have to jump on, like, get in the wheel…
Casey:
Oh, right, to take… ‘Cos you would be able to [inaudible 24:39] right out. Okay.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
Well, I would say this. It’s way safer to ride a boat than a car ‘cos like, you’re not gonna hit anything…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
The chances of it actually sinking are low. You have a life preserver on.
Casey:
Okay. Alright.
Jeff:
So I feel like it’s way safer to travel by boat than travel by car which is, like…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
A lot of other moving vehicles…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Right? And I get angry.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
I admit it. On the freeway…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Very frustrating when people drive…
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
They don’t know how to use the fast lane, Casey.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
There’s no fast lane in the lake. It’s all fast. You just go around…
Casey:
Nope, that’s not how the lake works. There’s definitely fast and slow areas…
Jeff:
Well, there’s some slow zones in between…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But I just go slow through those parts…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And then fast on the rest.
Casey:
I’m worn out already. We’re only 25 minutes into our podcast today.
Jeff:
We haven’t even talked about anything…
Casey:
And I’m already completely… I’m terrified, first of all, a little bit terrified, anyways…
Jeff:
What about a canoe? Have you ever been in a canoe?
Casey:
I have been in a canoe.
Jeff:
How’d that go?
Casey:
I’d been in canoes multiples times…
Jeff:
You have?
Casey:
And I don’t like them. I don’t like water craft.
Jeff:
I’ve never been in a canoe.
Casey:
There is no water craft that I like.
Jeff:
Have you ever done the stand up paddle boarding with Ginger?
Casey:
Yep.
Jeff:
Do you not like that?
Casey:
Don’t like it. I basically don’t like anything that involves me being on top of water.
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
Period.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Beginning, middle, end of story. We don’t really need to go into it any more than that. It is all bad.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
All of it bad.
Jeff:
Well, I’m just saying I bet you’ll get used to it when you come over and we take some boat trips.
Casey:
I’m not coming on the boat. I’m not going on the boat.
Jeff:
Let’s do… Okay, wait. Let’s do one podcast on the boat.
Casey:
Remember how I said I wasn’t going on the Ariel Atom and I never did go on the Ariel Atom?
Jeff:
You never got the ride?
Casey:
I never went on the Ariel Atom. And the reason I never went on the Ariel Atom is ‘cos it’s not safe. And the boat with you behind the wheel is also not safe and I’m not going on the boat.
Jeff:
What if you drive and I give you the card?
Casey:
I don’t know how to drive a boat.
Jeff:
Well, you take the $24 thing. I’ll pay for it and then we’re solved. We go out on the water and then we do the…
Casey:
Okay. A 5-minute stupid test online devised by our idiot bureaucracy here in the State of Washington is not gonna prepare me to drive a boat.
Jeff:
I think it’s a 3rd party… Yeah, it’s just…
Casey:
I don’t know how to drive a boat and I’m not gonna learn by taking an online course.
Jeff:
I drove all the way around an island and I never had any training at all.
Casey:
People can’t even learn, like, fucking philosophy (which isn’t even a subject) by taking classes on line. They’re certainly not gonna be able to learn how to drive a boat. I mean, it’s inconceivable. I would need practice to drive a boat. So I’m surely not gonna feel better if you’re like, “Don’t worry about it, Casey. I’ll let you drive.” That’s like going from bad to worse…
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
That’s out of the frying pan and into the fire. There’s nothing good about giving the wheel over to someone who already doesn’t think they know how to drive.
Jeff:
I feel like it’ll be one of those things that’s just in our lives that we have to deal with. And…
Casey:
No, that’s not… But you’re creating this situation.
Jeff:
No, and after a couple months, you will be calm and we’ll be, like, just used to it. And we’re like, “Oh, come get me on the boat…”
Casey:
Right, we’re on the boat again…
Jeff:
And then we’re doing the podcast on the boat because I had that thought of, like, having that on the podcast on the water…
Casey:
Hold on.
Jeff:
I’m sure that’s allowed.
Casey:
So I’m gonna tell you why… I’m gonna explain to you why it is very essential that I not go on the boat. Okay?
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Because there’s more at stake here than simply my discomfort about nautical craft.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
If I indulge this little boat fantasy of yours…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Okay, fast forward five years and here is, like, a typical day in the life of Casey Muratori.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I’m trying to do something. I’m trying to get some work done.
Jeff:
Uh-huh.
Casey:
I get a call. And it’s like, “Casey, I’m gonna need you to come get me.”
Jeff:
Yeah…
Casey:
Right?
Jeff:
I ran out of gas?
Casey:
Now, at this point, you have already…
Jeff:
I’m a little worried about the fuel situation.
Casey:
Hold on a second. You’ve already bought me a boat, okay?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You were like, “Okay, look, Casey. I’m buying a boat for you. We’re gonna keep it at the slip that you get to ‘cos look, let’s just put this out there, I’m gonna get stranded. That’s just gonna happen. I’m gonna get stranded. So rather than let’s argue about it, let’s just accept the fact that I will be stranded and that you will need to come and get me because I don’t want to deal with the coastguard.”
Jeff:
That’s the backup boat.
Casey:
It’s a huge ordeal.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
“So the backup boat is going in your slip. I paid for it. It’s fine, right. You just need to learn how to drive it and come get me when I’m in trouble,” right?
Jeff:
Perfect. Are you saying you’d do that? ‘Cos I’d do that in a heartbeat.
Casey:
No, what I’m saying is this is what would happen.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
If I give you an inch, you will take a yard.
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
So pretty soon, me (who is terrified of water vehicles) is now responsible for learning how to do, like, essentially coastguard search and rescue. It’s like, “Okay, Casey. Look, I know last time didn’t go very well. I bought you a new boat. It’s bigger. This one has a helipad…”
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
“I need you to get the helicopter. I need you to fly it out to me, okay. There’s a harness on there. I’m not gonna say why there’s a horse on my boat. I just need you to use the horse harness to get the horse out of my boat and into your boat so that it can go back to the zoo where it belongs.” And I’m just gonna be like, “When did this happen?”
Jeff:
No. Here’s what I’m saying.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I thought about the stranded situation because I run out of gas in my car all the time…
Casey:
Yes. You do.
Jeff:
That’s why I got the electricity and now I run out of electricity.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
I run out of things…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Is what happens.
Casey:
Basically, if there is a limit, you will exceed that limit. That’s all we really need to know.
Jeff:
That’s gonna happen.
Casey:
Boats take diesel. And you will, at some point, run out of the diesel.
Jeff:
And then I’m like, how do you find me… But then, nowadays, you can do like the “Find My iPhone” or “Find My Android” thing…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And it just GPS’s up and then bam, the person’s there.
Casey:
Yeah, I know.
Jeff:
So what I’ll do if I run out of juice…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
I hadn’t thought about buying you a boat. That’s totally on the table because they’re way cheap.
Casey:
I know.
Jeff:
They’re way cheap.
Casey:
This is the problem.
Jeff:
It doesn’t even have to be like a heavy duty boat.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It has to be enough to hold you…
Casey:
Yeah, and you.
Jeff:
A gallon of gas…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Well, I’ll just have you…
Casey:
[ Right, like I’m a depot, ] yeah.
Jeff:
You go get the gasoline.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And then you just say “Find My iPhone”…
Casey:
Yep.
Jeff:
And then just follow the little directions right there.
Casey:
No, I thought it through…
Jeff:
So Siri…
Casey:
I don’t like anything about it. I don’t like…
Jeff:
I had not thought about the backup boat. That’s a fantastic idea.
Casey:
It’s a terrible idea…
Jeff:
’Cos it doesn’t even have to be… It could be like one of those $500 boats that were on…
Casey:
But I’m not getting on a $500 boat because I’m not getting in a $15,000 boat. I’m not getting into any of these boats. That’s the problem, okay. I’m not getting in the boat.
Jeff:
I’m just saying the podcast, sometimes is gonna be held up because I’m halfway over… That’s gonna happen. So we need to have some sort of… I had not thought… The backup boat is a fantastic idea.
Casey:
It was a terrible idea.
Jeff:
That was your idea, too.
Casey:
Well, yeah. It’s not so much my idea. It’s because… Here’s the thing. I didn’t just give you that idea. What I did is I brought that idea back from the future, when you would’ve fucking had that idea. That’s the problem. If I could’ve guaranteed that you’d never have this idea… But that’s your problem solving. Your problem solving doesn’t go to the easy case of just call the coast guard, right? That’s what normal people would do when they get stuck.
Jeff:
No…
Casey:
You’d be like, “Oh, it’s this whole production…”
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
“And I’ve got to fill out this form. So here’s the deal, Casey, I made it so much simpler. You can just come get me.”
Jeff:
Yeah, exactly.
Casey:
Right?
Jeff:
Here’s the other thing. My problem solving is usually looking forward, not considering previous decisions as mistakes…
Casey:
Yes. Well, there’s another…
Jeff:
We’ve talked about that before where it’s like…
Casey:
Well, there’s another thing about this… There’s another reason why I feel like what you would end up doing is buying a boat. And it might not be for me. You might buy a boat for Bryan… Like, you’d buy a boat for somebody who had to come get you.
Jeff:
Yeah, that sounds great.
Casey:
So, one of the reasons that I know that’d be your thought process is because you also, for some reason and I don’t know why, always try to solve problems by doing the thing more. So like, if the problem is that a boat ran out of gas, your solution is not to look at ways to prevent that boat from running out of gas. Yours is like, “Well, clearly, what we just need is more boats because when one fails, we’ll just use the next one…”
Jeff:
Or bigger…
Casey:
“We’ll switch the next one and the next one and the next one…”
Jeff:
Or bigger tanks so you don’t have to go or something…
Casey:
Right, yeah, exactly. There you go. So I know that you would approach the problem in that way.
Jeff:
Yeah, that sounds reasonable to me.
Casey:
And if that failed, like if some time I ran out of gas trying to get to you, your solution would then just be to buy boats for a bunch more people. It’d be like, “Alright, I bought a boat for Mitch. And I bought a boat for Bryan. And I bought a boat for him,” so everyone’s on the call list now. And can… People can run out of gas all the time and we will constantly have more people rescuing people who then rescue people who then rescue people. We’ve got a Russian doll boat rescue situation.
Jeff:
Yeah, that would be fine. But I don’t think we need to go there. We just need a backup boat on this side of the water…
Casey:
Alright…
Jeff:
I hadn’t thought of that.
Casey:
Yeah. Well…
Jeff:
We may need a backup boat on each side of the water to be like, where I’m closer to…
Casey:
’Cos you never know which way you’re coming to…
Jeff:
Well, and also… Like, if I’m just like… You can almost see me…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You just want to get in the boat.
Casey:
Right, yeah.
Jeff:
Right? Or like, if we had one of those little kayaks or something…
Casey:
Well, it’d be kinda hard to pour enough gasoline in one of those to really get you going but…
Jeff:
We could just hook Ginger up to my boat.
Casey:
Hook her up?
Jeff:
Yeah…
Casey:
Oh, and have her paddle? Yeah, you probably could do that.
Jeff:
Because she could pull a boat…
Casey:
She probably could…
Jeff:
Easy.
Casey:
Yep.
Jeff:
Yeah, that’s true.
Casey:
But I don’t want her doing that.
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
I don’t like any of this. None of this sounds good to me.
Jeff:
I’m a little worried about the fuel thing because I was thinking about that the other day. It happens to me a lot. And that’s with gas stations all over the place…
Casey:
I was just gonna say…
Jeff:
And those… Like, you have to plan… It’s like, “Oh, every 2 trips, I have to go up to Juanita…”
Casey:
Yeah, and you’re not gonna want to do that.
Jeff:
That sounds like you…
Casey:
I think it’s also…
Jeff:
I actually looked for electric boats.
Casey:
Does that exist?
Jeff:
No, they really don’t have that yet. I’m not sure why. It seems like it would be a smart thing although with all that electricity, [inaudible 34:10]
Casey:
So the thing I was wondering… I was wondering about this myself because one of the things that the Tesla has problems with, though, is cold temperatures is my understanding…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So I was thinking that a boat that’s basically submerged in the world’s most… You know, the quickest heat sink imaginable, is that a… Like, is it just that it’d be so fucking cold all the time that the batteries would just die? I don’t know ‘cos I don’t know battery technology at all. I just know there’s all kinds of crazy shit involved.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So I wonder if there’s some reasons why it would actually be really difficult…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
To handle because the batteries are always too cold.
Jeff:
You’d think it… But you also get the advantage that the range you do on a boat is generally far less than a car ‘cos you’re not…
Casey:
Well, you also get the thing of weight isn’t as big of a deal…
Jeff:
Yeah, that’s true.
Casey:
So you actually have a number of advantages. I was just wondering if the batteries were a problem that way. But yeah, I think it’s pretty good because it’s a surface area versus mass thing that’s actually on your side in boats that’s not the case in cars…
Jeff:
Well, maybe we can do transplants like the beard trimmer thing.
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
We transplant all the Tesla stuff into a boat… Yeah.
Casey:
Alright, I am totally… The beard trimmer?
Jeff:
The beard trimmer, when I change the motor of the beard trimmer… That should do that, right?
Casey:
I feel like that didn’t go well.
Jeff:
No, it went well. It was like… So I took the power. . . There’s the little motor that was in my electric drill…
Casey:
Okay. Oh…
Jeff:
I took the drill apart…
Casey:
You took a drill apart? Like a drill from Home Depot? You bought like a power drill?
Jeff:
Yeah, but it was an electric… It was a battery-driven one.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
This was maybe 10 years ago.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And the little motor inside…
Casey:
Okay, yeah…
Jeff:
Was the same kind as the kind that was in the beard trimmer that I had…
Casey:
Same kind?
Jeff:
Yeah, it was the same shape so it slid in there…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And then when it revolved, I had to change the little nodule on the spinmeister…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So that it went [ “jigga jigga jigga” ] like this…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And move it back and forth.
Casey:
People at home can’t see that.
Jeff:
It just had to change the little… The axle or whatever that’s spinning to be one that had a little jog in it…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So that it went back and forth…
Casey:
Alright…
Jeff:
And then I plugged that directly in…
Casey:
Directly into what?
Jeff:
Well, that one… I’m sorry. That drill was a drill that was plugged in all the time. So my problem with beard trimmers…
Casey:
Okay, so hold on. Let’s try to get the story straight here.
Jeff:
The beard trimmer…
Casey:
You had a corded, like AC, drill?
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
And you took the…
Jeff:
The trimmer was a battery one. So every time you went to trim…
Casey:
So you took the motor out of an AC-powered drill.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
You…
Jeff:
That had a thing… And it was AC and then it had a DC…
Casey:
It has a converter, yeah, obviously…
Jeff:
Yeah, yeah, yeah…
Casey:
Right. So you took that out. You put that into your shaver…
Jeff:
Yeah. The beard trimmer, yeah… Beard trimmer, not a shaver.
Casey:
Okay, beard trimmer, alright…
Jeff:
And then I wrapped it all up with electrical tape…
Casey:
Of course you did.
Jeff:
[ So it’s all one… ] ‘Cos it didn’t fit…
Casey:
For safety?
Jeff:
Well, and it held everything together…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
’Cos it was there.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But then, I had… Like, that thing was so fast ‘cos it was… It sounded like a drill, like… But it went back and forth that fast…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Like, way more RPM’s than the other one…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And then it worked… That was amazing. My trimming was so easy then. And I never had to worry about it being charged because I had the problem, sometimes I get a half charge, I’d do half the face…
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
And then I can’t… I’d have to wait until I go into work, ‘til the battery charges to do the other half…
Casey:
Alright, so… Alright, so I guess what is… Basically, this data is contradicting my Jeff model. So obviously, I have made an error.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I would have assumed that if one of your problems was that you ran out of charge in the middle of shaving your face, that there’d be, like, 4 electric razors in your bathroom by now. Like, you just…
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
Use one and then it… And you’re like, “Fuck it,” and you just switch to another one. Or, you went to Target and bought another one at the time that you needed it or something like that.
Jeff:
If you could get one that was… So the problem is none of them that I have so far use pass through charging…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So that when you’re plugged in the wall…
Casey:
Oh, yeah, yeah… Right, yes.
Jeff:
That’s all I want. I don’t want… I don’t care about a battery…
Casey:
Yeah, me neither. And they never provide that.
Jeff:
No, they don’t do that.
Casey:
It’s bullshit.
Jeff:
So yeah… So anyway… Oh, see, there, the boat’s leaving. I did get distracted.
Casey:
I told…
Jeff:
I told you that it’s leaving…
Casey:
That’s what I was trying to make…
Jeff:
You said that the… Cruise liner…
Casey:
That’s why I was trying to… That was me trying to prepare you…
Jeff:
But he’s on the way out so then we won’t be distracted every again.
Casey:
Fine.
Jeff:
Alright. I can’t believe… Oh, right. I remember. So we could do… We could find one of those maker people that, you know, make all that horse shit out of other horse shit.
Casey:
Yeah, there’s [ maker spaces ] here in Seattle.
Jeff:
So if I get too mad at the Tesla, we could just tear it down…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And then put it into the boat.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
The batteries and the bottom…
Casey:
I see what you’re saying.
Jeff:
And then hook it up.
Casey:
You take the Tesla, you just fucking float that shit somehow…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And then instead of where the wheels go, you just hook up like a transmission to put it into a propeller and then it’s like, “We’re done.”
Jeff:
Well, I mean, the motors in boats that aren’t just the outboard motors…
Casey:
Yeah, are electric…
Jeff:
Are car motors. They’re just like Chevy V8’s, usually, easy to tinker with and play with.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So you just pull that out…
Casey:
You pull that out, get that out of there.
Jeff:
Plop that in.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And then… I don’t know how.. The Tesla has a transmission. I know they want to get away from that eventually…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But they haven’t yet.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So at least that motor, as in the [inaudible 39:37] right now could be boat-worthy if necessary.
Casey:
Well, you don’t really need a transmission anyway on a boat because you don’t have to actually transmit it.
Jeff:
No. You just…
Casey:
I was thinking… I was saying… When I said transmission, I meant more in the literal sense of…
Jeff:
The trans axle… Yeah.
Casey:
Of like, we just need to get it from the wheels to the thing…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
But if you actually took the engine out, you wouldn’t even need that. You just stick a fucking propeller right on it probably.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s an electric motor. It doesn’t have a torque.
Jeff:
Yeah, that’s true. With normal ones, you have some… You do have a torque converter or something in there…
Casey:
You don’t need that.
Jeff:
’Cos you can’t get it spinning otherwise.
Casey:
You don’t need that. That’s just done. At least, that’s my understanding. Again, not really my field of expertise. What is my field of expertise is me preventing you from buying me a boat so that I don’t have to rescue you in the middle of Lake Washington when I am trying to do something else, which is an eventuality that I’m playing in my head this time.
Jeff:
You’re prepared to deal with it.
Casey:
Here’s something I wanted to mention because it came up briefly.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I just wanted to mention this. So there’s a thing that I always complain about. I mean, there’s lots of things I always complain about because I’m a complainer. That’s what I do. But one thing that I often complain about is the fact that most things nowadays that I see, like most things that I see like in a consumer setting…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Are labeled with shit that you normally would not have had to have said, like, 50 years ago. The example is, like…
Jeff:
Oh, right…
Casey:
“Contains actual raisins.” Right? Like, in 1950 or something, you probably wouldn’t have to have convinced someone that a chocolate bar that was called Raisin Master or whatever the fuck had actual raisins in it…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Because the only reason anyone would ever say Raisin Master was if they had put raisins into a chocolate bar.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
That’s the only point of that whole situation.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
But nowadays, what they’ve done is the Raisin Master brand, which has been around for 50 years, is looking to cut corners…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So all the raisins are gone. They’ve figured out a way to get raisin-y flavor…
Jeff:
Yeah, Chinese children’s fingers…
Casey:
By like, injecting that with who the fuck knows, right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Whatever was cheapest… Horse knuckle… So there’s like, whatever that thing is there that sort of tastes vaguely like you remember Raisin Master tasting, whatever they could get away with, that’s what’s in there now. And then, either their competitor or themselves trying to revitalize the brand, then puts raisins back in…
Jeff:
Messes it up… Yeah.
Casey:
And puts a big old thing that’s like, “Contains 10% real raisins”, right?
Jeff:
Right, along with the knuckle.
Casey:
Oh, yeah. The knuckle’s still on the table.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
You look at that, it’s not like organic free-range raisins.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
It’s like, whatever cheapest raisins we could fucking have but at least someone somewhere who did a DNA test could conclude that these may have been related to raisins at one point which was not true in our previous candy bar.
Jeff:
Yeah. Right.
Casey:
Okay. So that is just true across the board now.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Everything I look at, it’s like, “Made with real cheese”. And like, what’s the product? It’s cheese. Like, you know? It’s not even like, “Oh, it’s a thing that could’ve…” Like why… You know, maybe I need to convince you that there is cheese in it but it’s like, no…
Jeff:
That’s that it was.
Casey:
It’s like, Kraft Singles, and it’s like, “Contains 50%. . .” It’s not even a hundred.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
It’s like, Kraft Singles contains 50% real Wisconsin cheddar or something like this, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And you’re like, “What’s the other 50%?”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And you don’t want to know.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
You’re just like, “I don’t want to know about the horse knuckle. Just give me the cheese. Let’s call it even.”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Anyway, so point being. . .
Jeff:
Here’s what you do is you cut those slices in half.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
You just eat the half with the cheese in it.
Casey:
Yes. So this problem also exists even right through Silicon Valley, which is hilarious.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
And that, to me, is the term, “Maker”.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Like, in the old days, a person who makes some shit is called that thing. So if I made… You know, if I’m an iron worker or something or I’m a blacksmith or something, right, we just have a name for what that thing is.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
But now, the concept that you might actually make something is so far from the realm of possibility that people who actually do have had to come and label themselves as Makers because almost everyone else isn’t. Like, normally, you wouldn’t have to say, like, “Oh, I’m in business.”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
In the old days, you wouldn’t have to say, “I actually produce something that you might purchase,” right? And this is even… The interesting thing about this is it’s even true in the virtual sense. Like, there’s still people who you might consider makers, like people who make video games. You’re still at least making something, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
But there’s whole huge swathes of industry now where nothing actually gets made. You’re like, “What do you do?” And it’s like, “Oh, well, what we do is we arbitrage SEO costs between different places where the search…” And you’re just like, “Do you… Is that a… You know what, never mind.”
Jeff:
Right. You don’t want to know.
Casey:
Yeah, you don’t want to know. And that’s the, like, the Raisin Master that’s been, like, totally…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
There’s nothing in the candy bar, like, we don’t even know where this came from, right? So the maker thing is, like they have to say, “I’m a maker,” because otherwise, you wouldn’t even know… You would just assume that they, you know…
Jeff:
I never thought about… I always… Yeah, that’s awesome. I never really thought about maker like that. I looked at the term as they are to hardware engineers as, like, software is to science. Like…
Casey:
Wait, what?
Jeff:
They are just kind of mashing stuff together in the way…
Casey:
Okay. Alright.
Jeff:
That like…
Casey:
I see. Alright.
Jeff:
Like, that modern things take a bunch of middleware layers of web stuff…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And mash them together…
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
And message pass their shit around…
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
And it sort of comes up with a janky product that sort of works.
Casey:
Okay. Alright.
Jeff:
That’s what you get if you buy, like, the maker jetpack. It’s like, all this weird shit that they’ve repurposed…
Casey:
Open source components…
Jeff:
Right. Yeah, open source hardware…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And they’ve made this funny… And so, I’ve always considered maker to be, like, the janky version of engineer…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And not completely as a pejorative there. I mean, just… Like, it is the…
Casey:
It’s the janky way.
Jeff:
It’s the… We just… Shipping. We’re gonna make something out of this janky…
Casey:
Right. [ Jury rigging ] is what you’re thinking…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You’re thinking like we cram all the shit together…
Jeff:
But I never thought about concept of we’ve gotten so far from…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
From, like, getting up in the morning…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And working a farm or just creating anything of value…
Casey:
Right, yeah.
Jeff:
That we now have a thing… I’m a maker because…
Casey:
No, it’s a… Yeah.
Jeff:
Just to… Yeah. I’m like, we all were makers at one time because we needed to have that.
Casey:
Yeah, exactly.
Jeff:
And we’re so… As a society, we have so much largesse at this point.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
We have to distinguish the makers from, like, the [ couch-ers ] or, like, the Netflixers…
Casey:
Right. Yeah, the purely virtual, yeah, yeah…
Jeff:
Yeah, the Netflix bingers…
Casey:
But here’s the thing. The analogy, to me, runs so deep. It’s like, the Raisin Master thing is like, it’s totally that because it’s even wrapped around… So what happens in the Raisin Master scenario, too, is you actually have some people who come along and make, like, you know, Raisin [46:23], like, the raisin bar that actually was made with good ingredients and we actually cared about the raisins, we’re people who love fucking raisins and we really wanted a raisin bar that meant something to us so we got together. We made this raisin bar. It’s delicious. Friends and family, grandma on the porch, raisin time. Whatever the fuck, right? So it’s Raisin [inaudible 46:38] right? Raisin Master sees this and is like, “Fuck. Everyone wants this feel-good raisin bar and we’re shipping this shitty horse knuckle product.”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So what we need to do is start using the language of Raisin [inaudible 46:54]
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So now, there’s like a fucking grandma who’s never involved with Raisin Master, like, on the Raisin Master bar, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And Raisin [inaudible 47:02] is like, “What the fuck are these jokers?”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And you have this commercialism versus authenticity thing…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And it’s like punk rock all of a sudden or something…
Jeff:
I don’t even know…
Casey:
That happens, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So that is exactly what happens in the maker space, too. So now, you’ve got basically poser makers. Like, there’s shit where people are like, “I’m a maker.” And it’s like, “Wait, what the fuck do you make?”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And it’s like, “Oh, well, we got this space and some stuff…” And you’re like…
Jeff:
It’s like a…
Casey:
“Nothing got made here.”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Like, what is happening? So it’s all… To me, it’s all this huge tangled mess…
Jeff:
Right. I made a joystick for android. Like, “Oh, I see, you make the joysticks?” “No, no, we outsource those. And what we do is we make an advertising platform that allows the joystick to talk to the game and insert ads. So I made that.”
Casey:
Yeah, exactly. Yep, “I made that. We made that.”
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Yeah. So that is exactly…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
To me, the whole pipeline of sort of like reversal and fraud and… It’s all happening in that same labeling of the maker… The maker thing is having that exact thing.
Jeff:
Yeah…
Casey:
And I’m sure there are plenty of earnest people out there…
Jeff:
No, no, I feel like…
Casey:
Who, you know, are actually in that…
Jeff:
There’s a lot of stuff that’s…
Casey:
And then there’s these people who are on the top… Riding on the backs of the earnest people and people who want to be associated with them but who aren’t and everything else…
Jeff:
Yeah. I feel… Yeah, and that is weird in the sense that I approve of what the maker kind of people, like, interesting little gadgety one-of stuff, kind of fun, weird wacky stuff. But I want nothing to do with the thing because in the same way that I can appreciate somebody that goes to Michael’s and buys glitter and glue…
Casey:
Crafts?
Jeff:
And makes this craft thing that is cute…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
I just… I don’t like that whole… I can’t deal with that part of it.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But I can appreciate it. I can appreciate the end result without wanting anything to do with the culture of, like, making shit with garbage.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Like, in crafts…
Casey:
I see.
Jeff:
And not that dissimilar, really, from the maker environment anyway, which is repurposing stuff that’s been discarded.
Casey:
Okay. Well, that’s not actually necessarily true. I mean, maker stuff can be making stuff [inaudible 49:13] it’s just people who actually make physical things as far as I can tell.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Right? Like, you could make clothing from new cloth, basically, and you’d still be a maker if you chose to label yourself that way. And I don’t think anyone would argue, right?
Jeff:
It is funny, the physical versus virtual thing there…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Which is, like… Software is way harder, way harder to get right than physical things.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But like, physical things, it’s just so much more like, “Oh, I can hold it.” Like, the bar there is just interesting of, like, when somebody makes something that’s like, “Oh, it’s a little box,” and you press a button and a red light lights up. And you’re like, “That’s pretty cool.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
But if somebody gave me an app and there’s just a button and I press it and then a little light lights up elsewhere in the app, I’m like, “You’re fucking joking, right?” I’m like…
Casey:
So, I think the problem is you are looking at this in a very myopic way, Jeff. Somebody did give the world an app where you push the button and it lights up. It’s called fucking Farmville and it was, like, one of the most successful things that shipped in all time.
Jeff:
Yeah. That’s true.
Casey:
Like, the problem is basically who is approaching it. It’s how much the person knows who is purchasing…
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
Other people…
Jeff:
So there’s majors who are like, “Oh, that’s some bullshit.”
Casey:
John Miles goes up to the… Yeah, if John Miles went up to somebody who did the stupid thing that you thought was kinda cool, he’d be like, “What the fuck is this?”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
“It’s like, fucking amateur hour.”
Jeff:
Right. Okay.
Casey:
Welcome to me when I was 5 years old, right? But if you don’t know…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And that’s the thing, if you come up to something and you have no prior experience with it, then the simplest things are suddenly…
Jeff:
So that’s why software people like those physical things, generally.
Casey:
Yeah. It’s just ‘cos you don’t do those every day. If you did those every day, you’d be totally nonplussed.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Sorry, wrong word there. You would have no sort of genuine surprise when you came up to it, right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And so, I think that that’s definitely the case with just about everything. And people who don’t have the experience with software come to it and like, “Oh, my God, Check out how cool that is,” right? And it’s like, “No, that’s not cool at all, actually. But, you know, knock yourself out, bro.”
Jeff:
Alright, well, we didn’t talk any topics and we’re at 51 minutes. Should we pinch this off or should we…
Casey:
Well, I was gonna say this was the day I feel like to talk about McGruff the Crime Dog. That was item number 1.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
But we’re out of time. It’s 51 minutes. We’re out of time. So we’ll have to put McGruff off ‘til the next time.
Jeff:
Yeah, we’ll catch up with him.
Casey:
We’ll catch up with McGruff the Crime Dog.
Jeff:
It’s a pretty funny story.
Casey:
It is a very funny story.
Jeff:
We’ve got to get to it…
Casey:
Probably one of the best, really, if you get right down to it.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
But not today.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
So thank you, everyone, for tuning in…
Jeff:
To this complete digression. We never got to anything. Anything.
Casey:
We never got to anything.
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
But then again, if we got to something, would it really be an episode of the Jeff & Casey Show?
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
Probably not. So I think we’ve delivered…
Jeff:
So if you would like us to not cover something for you…
Casey:
Something, yes, send it to us.
Jeff:
Send it to us at Podcast@JeffAndCaseyShow.com.
Casey:
Send it to Podcast@JeffAndCaseyShow.com because remember, even though we never get around to the topics, part of us preparing for the show is planning… We do plan to cover…
Jeff:
We bring it up on the iPad.
Casey:
It’s on the iPad right now.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
In fact, I’m looking at something on the iPad right now that someone did email in. And we didn’t get to it but it was there.
Jeff:
And it was fantastic. Yeah.
Casey:
And so, it’s part of the [inaudible 52:21] really, whatever you want to call it. It’s part of the [inaudible 52:24] of the Jeff & Casey Show.
Jeff:
Alright. I like that.
Casey:
Thank you, everyone, for tuning in. And we will see you next week.
Jeff:
Next week.
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casey muratori
the jeff and casey show - season 4 - episode 19
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