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The Technician
No Imperfections Noted
The Jeff and Casey Show
Jeff and Casey Time
Casey Muratori
Seattle, WA
Racism 2.0
"An incubator is the thing that you put the crack baby in because it was born premature."
Original air date: May 26th, 2014
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Transcript
Jeff:
Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Jeff & Casey Show.
Casey:
Hello and welcome to the Jeff & Casey Show. I have to say that last time, it took some of the mystery out of the MegaTimer for me, actually, because…
Jeff:
I always…
Casey:
Yeah, the whole time, I thought that that was the MegaTimer, like, getting mad at you or something or you having pressed it wrong. And I think I like that better. I don’t like now knowing that it’s actually you intentionally pressing the randomize button.
Jeff:
Well, the randomize button starts “dadadadada”… When it beeps, like there, it’s like, “dadadadada”. I hit Start and then it keeps beeping.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
What that means I press Random and then Start and that doesn’t work. I have to hit Random Stopwatch because I can’t just hit Stopwatch. Like…
Casey:
I love the notion that that is a stopwatch. What are you timing with this? It’s only second accurate. It doesn’t… It is a MegaTimer. It is the MegaTimer, Jeff. And yet, it does not even have milliseconds. I guess maybe Mega is so big, it’s like, “We only do big numbers here.”
Jeff:
Here at the 200th Olympics, we’re ready for Usain to begin his medal run. And then they get the gun out and then they press the trigger and it goes “dadadadada”. They go, “Hold on… dadadadada.” And all the runners are like…
Casey:
And they’re like, “Did anyone break a world record?” “We don’t know because we only have it to the second.”
Jeff:
That’s totally true.
Casey:
And they’ve been done with that for a while, I assume. Anyway…
Jeff:
Okay. You had a story for us.
Casey:
I do have a story.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
So, it’s a long story, the way my stories are.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
And I guess I’ve had enough peanut butter M&M's here to get into it…
Jeff:
To power through…
Casey:
Yeah. It’s… So… I think everyone… We’ve talked about this on the podcast before, how everyone’s racist and whatever, right? And, well, I’m sure…
Jeff:
And just to be clear, not everyone else. It’s just… We’re all racist.
Casey:
No, everyone. Me… And I’m about to talk about how I’m racist. Okay. So everyone’s racist and… I mean, to some degree, there’s nothing wrong with that because that’s just kind of the way I think humans are. And much like a lot of things, it is basically about our mental attempts to overcome these limitations of our natural inclinations, right?
Jeff:
Okay. I like that.
Casey:
So it’s like, you know, I don’t think there is such a thing as a work without internal racism. But we strive towards a world without external racism. So everyone who has their random racism, whatever it is that happens to you or something…
Jeff:
So Donald Sterling just let it bubble out, that’s the problem?
Casey:
I’m sorry. I don’t know who that is.
Jeff:
Well, [inaudible 2:51] but right now, there’s a huge controversy in the NBA because one of the owners, there was an audio transcript that he was speaking to his girlfriend…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
His girlfriend of age 22 and he’s 79…
Casey:
Right, yep…
Jeff:
And he’s a greasy 79… You know how sometimes a guy can pull it off. You’re like, “Oh, he’s got gray and he’s tan,” and he’s like, “Oh, that’s a good looking old man.”
Casey:
Okay. Alright.
Jeff:
No. Donald Sterling is not that.
Casey:
Alright. I see. Okay.
Jeff:
And he’s been famous in the past for being wicked racist.
Casey:
Oh…
Jeff:
And he’s settled many lawsuits, like 20 years ago. He made his fortune in Los Angeles real estate…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Owning apartment complexes. And so, he has gained a lot of his racism from interacting with all these people and he gained apparently a lot of his wealth from being brutally like, “No, we do not… We don’t have Blacks here. We don’t…” Like…
Casey:
Oh, it’s like a gated community?
Jeff:
Yeah. He’s like, external…
Casey:
He’s like, “We keep certain people out of this neighborhood,” kind of a thing?
Jeff:
Yeah. So he’s like…
Casey:
Wow.
Jeff:
And he’s settled many losses.
Casey:
And that [ shit skates ] these days? I guess the lawsuits [inaudible 4:08]
Jeff:
No, now he’s like, “I love everybody.”
Casey:
Supposedly.
Jeff:
Supposedly.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And he is dating this young half Black, half Hispanic girl who’s, like, 20 or whatever.
Casey:
Okay. So I’m assuming… I mean, you did not say explicitly but I’m assuming that you’re talking about here was against people who were Hispanic or Black? I mean, what… I’m assuming that this means…
Jeff:
No, it’s even better.
Casey:
This in an about-face for him, I guess is what I’m saying.
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
He wasn’t racist against, say, Germans…
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
And… You know what I mean? Like I’m saying, he is now dating someone of the race or races that he was racist to, is that the idea?
Jeff:
I believe that racism applies up to the point that the person is hot.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Because this is why so many slave owners interacted terribly with the horrible…
Casey:
Okay. So you think guys have a hierarchy here where racism fails to cut into the “is she hot”.
Jeff:
Oh, it’s way below horniness.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Horniness always exceeds racism. Always, in any case.
Casey:
If I may…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
If I may, I’m just go ahead and probe into this a little here. So it sounds like to me, what you’re saying is that the path to global harmony really lies in hotness…
Jeff:
Oh, yes.
Casey:
A lot of ethnic hotness, all the different ethnicities just need to put forth their hottest hotties. And that will solve the White man racist problem? This is what you’re saying?
Jeff:
We might have to, like… When that gets too out of control, using sexism to fight racism, it will turn on us. And then, we have to reuse the racism to balance. It’s just a tricky thing. Anyway…
Casey:
Man.
Jeff:
Now, he could’ve got caught saying a lot of stuff about Black people. But it was a conversation… He had gotten a fight with this 22-year old. I think she’s 22.
Casey:
Got it.
Jeff:
And he’s mad because she posted a picture… He’s mad about her Instagram feed.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Of, like, pictures she had…
Casey:
First of all, I am shocked that he even knows that she has an Instagram…
Jeff:
I totally agree.
Casey:
I’m assuming it was an assistant who brought this to his attention…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Because someone that old probably has no idea what the fuck Instagram is would be my guess.
Jeff:
So I thought that was funny but…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
It’s not like… So he became angry that she had these pictures with Black people on her feed. And he’s explaining this. Now, it’s important to say she is a minor celebrity, being the girlfriend of Donald Sterling in LA.
Casey:
Okay. So it’s like a Kardashian sort of situation…
Jeff:
One of those weird things…
Casey:
Woman about town…
Jeff:
The men she was with were not, like, gangsters or even rappers or whatever. He was particularly mad that she was seen with Magic Johnson.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Who’s, like, one of the safest Black men in America in terms of…
Casey:
Right. Yeah. Okay.
Jeff:
Anything you could have going on, like any mental racism of, like, you projected into whatever…
Casey:
Right, it’s like Bill Cosby, Will Smith, and then Magic Johnson.
Jeff:
Magic Johnson, he is a billionaire on his own, right.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
He is a very successful business person.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
There is nothing you can say.
Casey:
But wait, okay, hold on one second. Who was the guy who came out one time and said, “I’ve slept with 20,000 women.”
Jeff:
Will Chamberlain.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I don’t remember basketball people at all.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So I was going to say if that’s the same guy, like I don’t know who the fuck Magic Johnson is, I’ll be honest with you. The only thing I know about Magic Johnson is I think I played a game called 1-on-1 Basketball on the Commodore 64. There was, like, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson I want to say…
Jeff:
Oh, okay.
Casey:
I think…
Jeff:
Well, Magic Johnson…
Casey:
But anyways, I was gonna say maybe he was scared because she’s hanging out with someone who slept with 20,000 women…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
“This could be bad for my relationship.”
Jeff:
It’s possible. I don’t think that’s a problem. I mean, Magic Johnson…
Casey:
Obviously not, because [ you’re saying ] Magic Johnson hasn’t slept with 20,000 people so that’s fine.
Jeff:
I would assume that he’s slept with probably possibly more than 20,000 because, like, he is in LA…
Casey:
Basketball players probably get a lot of women. That’s probably true.
Jeff:
Yeah. I would assume that. And the reason he contracted HIV, was because of how… I mean, he’s admitted that was like…
Casey:
Oh, because he was a little promiscuous…
Jeff:
Massively promiscuous.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And caught HIV when it was a death sentence.
Casey:
But he’s still alive.
Jeff:
Yeah, well, the drugs… If you’re wealthy, HIV is not.
Casey:
Yeah. Go modern medicine.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
That’s cool.
Jeff:
HIV is just a manageable thing. Nobody gets AIDS anymore. They have HIV.
Casey:
How come we’re not [ talking that up ]. “We saved Magic Johnson.” I would’ve had a press conference. But anyway, continue.
Jeff:
So it was funny that that’s what he was venting about was, like… I mean it’s like, “Can you not hang out with Bill Cosby so much? He is a dangerous influence.”
Casey:
Right. Yeah.
Jeff:
That’s what it’s like to me.
Casey:
“Those sweaters, he wears those sweaters.”
Jeff:
Exactly. So it was really… The whole thing was really absurd. And it blew up and it just kept… I don’t know when this will air but we’re right in the middle of… Their team is one of the teams that are vying for the championship right now.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And so now, like… Again, I don’t know what the percentages are but I believe it’s around an 80% Black league.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Everybody’s pissed and everybody’s weighing in this. And in fact, their own players consider boycotting but they’re one of the favorites… Well, not favorites but they’re definitely in the running for the championship. So they’ve done various demonstrative things. They didn’t wear any Clippers…
Casey:
What’s a Clipper?
Jeff:
That’s the team that Sterling owns, the LA Clippers.
Casey:
Oh, okay.
Jeff:
Yeah. Anyway, long story but… I can’t remember where we started with this but the racism…
Casey:
I was gonna talk about my racism story.
Jeff:
I see, your racism story.
Casey:
But that was it? That story… That’s kind of a Casey story. You meandered a lot there. That was not a very good story. I don’t even know what…
Jeff:
No, I can’t remember why it tied into it but you started to say something…
Casey:
I was saying everybody’s racist on the inside.
Jeff:
Right, okay. That’s what I was gonna say…
Casey:
’Cos I feel like it’s a tribal notion is what I’m saying.
Jeff:
Yes, I was gonna say just Donald spilled out. He didn’t keep it internal.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
It spilled out through Instagram.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Okay. Anyway, moving on… Well, I guess I should mention, based on what you just said…
Jeff:
Wait, just as a side thing. You know how in everything nowadays, part of branding some variety of thing is to put “2.0” on it like Web 2.0 or, like, “This is Internet 2.0.”
Casey:
But it rarely goes to 3.0, for some reason. 2.0 is like…
Jeff:
It’s enough?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But have we had Racism 2.0? I feel like we should’ve done that by now.
Casey:
That, my friend, is brilliant. And you want to know what? Not only is Racism 2.0 the title of this episode (I am pre-calling it) but that is, like, the perfect set-up for what I was about to say.
Jeff:
Oh, awesome.
Casey:
So I was gonna talk about the people’s history of sports in the United States and how sports and racism are intertwined are because you brought it up…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
But fuck it. I’m just gonna go straight into my story because that is the perfect thing, Racism 2.0. It’s perfect in so many ways. So what I was gonna say is if I stop and think about myself in terms of racism and prejudices and these sorts of things, I certainly have some of the standard racist and sexist and whatever things like, I’m sure I have those. But they’re not that virulent in me. I don’t feel a lot of real racism or sexism. What I feel is, like… For lack of a better term, it’s mentalism or something.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
It’s like, the racism that’s about certain self-identified categories of people rather than…
Jeff:
I see. Like White guilt or more?
Casey:
No, no, no. So for example, like Christians, right…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I don’t even… Like, as soon as I find out someone’s Christian, I immediately think less of them. And it’s an effort to try to basically, like ignore that sort of… I don’t know what you want to call it.
Jeff:
Preconception?
Casey:
Preconception of that, right?
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Which I imagine is how someone who’s, like, deeply racist or deeply sexist about it is, right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s not a small hurdle for them to overcome. Like maybe for me, it’s a small hurdle to overcome that someone doesn’t look like me or whatever. I can get past that quickly, let’s say, right? I can’t get past some of these other things quickly. It’s a big deal for me to buckle down and go, “Okay…”
Jeff:
That’s interesting.
Casey:
Right?
Jeff:
It actually hits me in a very different way.
Casey:
I’m just saying. So I definitely have that a lot. And this story is about me discovering, like, another one of those that I have that I didn’t realize how strongly I had it, right? And so, it kind of felt like the Ku Klux Klan people at the Black Panthers rally or whatever, right, is what happened to me here in its own way (which, by the way, happened I guess). Oh, no, sorry. It was American Nazi Party. But the Ku Klux Klan and the Black Panthers did apparently deal in this sort of stuff which was crazy. I had no idea. All these things I’ve been learning… I’ve been listening to history lectures recently.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Okay. Crazy shit aside, I decided, right… I’m like, I want to get some office space.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I want to get some office space. I want to have a place where I do work and whatever. And part of this was precipitated by the fact that I was doing the cover to this book, right, and it takes fucking forever. It’s definitely the most involved art project I’ve ever done, by far. And I’m not that great at it.
Jeff:
You’re using [ Art Package or you’re using your renderer? ]
Casey:
It’s in Photoshop…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
In Gimp. It’s not actually in Photoshop. It’s in Gimp but same difference, whatever. It’s a 2D-drawn thing.
Jeff:
Okay, right, I remember. Alright.
Casey:
So I’m doing this and it’s the first time that I actually realized myself that I am not cut out for this. And I think that’s… Right? I think that’s a difficult thing to realize sometimes because a lot of times, you evaluate things based on ability. And so, I’m like, “I can do this artwork. I can do this 3D modeling. I can paint these structures or whatever.” And I’ve trained myself to do these things. I know that I can do them.
Jeff:
That’s interesting. I almost never exclude my, like, “This is my total, like, egotism.”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I don’t go, “Oh, I just can’t do that.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I go, “I could never stand to use the tools or to do the thing. Like, that part of it.”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So yes, I’m in a different kind of egoism.
Casey:
Either way, I have… There’s a difference, I guess, between looking at something and going, “I can do this,” and looking at it and going, “I should do this.”
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
And I’ve never really had that discussion with myself, like, at a deep level and then like… The fact that you can make the art for this thing, does that mean you should be making art for this game? And most of the time, I just assumed that I should be because if you can do something, you might as well. But that’s just not a very smart way to look at it.
Jeff:
Yeah. That’s good. That’s a good…
Casey:
So I’m sort of having this realization as I’m sitting there. I’m like… I guarantee you that, A, there are people who would be enjoying this right now and I am not. B, there are people who, for the same amount of time, would have come up with a much better picture than this than I did, right? So it’s starting to sink in that I’m like, if I’m ever gonna do anything with art again, I should work with somebody. Like, I should actually fucking work with somebody. It’s a dumb idea to keep doing this where I always do all the art for everything that I do.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
So I’m like, “Fuck it.” I’m like, “That’s just a given.” So I’ve been thinking again like, “Alright…”
Jeff:
That would also be a good thing aside from the art stuff, working with other people (especially on the projects you do, like games and that kind of thing)…
Casey:
Yeah. Okay.
Jeff:
It’s valuable because there are things that you need to be good at to work with other people anyway, right? Because you have to, like, how you manage them, how you interact with them and all that. So that’s interesting.
Casey:
Sure. But you don’t actually need to do those things if you always do everything yourself, right? I mean…
Jeff:
No, no, no. That’s… Exactly. But I mean, it is a…
Casey:
It’s a skill set.
Jeff:
Yeah, it’s a skill set that would be interesting.
Casey:
Absolutely. Although, I think some of it is a little bit different because it’s not… I mean, there’s a difference between, like, what you do and how small projects run sometimes, right? Like, if you look at, like, [ Edmund & Tommy ] or something like that. It's not like one of them is running the project and managing… Like, you actually manage a company where there’s a… I mean, it’s not like a hierarchy but it’s at least… You are responsible for these people and what they’re supposed to be doing and that sort of stuff to some degrees.
Jeff:
Yeah. But I would assume that you would be the art director if you were doing this.
Casey:
Well, potentially, right? That’s what I’m saying. It depends who you work with, right? Like, you might work with somebody… This is why I brought up [ Edmund & Tommy ] because it's like I'm assuming that Tommy doesn't tell Edmund how to do the art or whatever. And Edmund probably doesn't tell Tommy how to write the code. They just do it and they have a good relationship or whatever and off you go.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
So I was just thinking like, “Alright, so from now on, fuck it. We’re just… I’m not going to do this anymore. This is the last art project I ever did. That’s it. I’m done.” So I started thinking like, “Okay. So I’m probably gonna do some projects at some point. I don’t know exactly what I’m going to do but I’ll probably do some and I’ve been wanting some office space so I just have some place that I go… I used to like having office space that doesn’t have any internet. So I just go there and it’s only work and there’s no distractions, right?
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
So [ if I’m gonna do ] any serious projects, then I wanted that anyway. So I set out to find some office space.
Jeff:
For yourself?
Casey:
Like, I’m gonna start looking for some office space.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
And, I mean, I’m never gonna need a lot. So it’s a small thing, you know, 500 to 1,000 square feet would be more than I’d ever need. So if I could find a relatively small space, rent some office space, set up my office there, off we go. This should be relatively straightforward, okay… So the first thing I did… And like, I’ve looked for real estate before and all that stuff so I know how to do all that stuff. But the first thing I did is I just quickly looked to see what there was for co-working spaces, right?
Jeff:
Oh, okay.
Casey:
And you can sort of see where this is starting to go.
Jeff:
Yep. Alright, yep…
Casey:
Okay. ‘Cos I’m like, “Well, you know, having a place where someone else deals with, like, the fact that there’s a kitchen and whatever, they do all the rent and electricity and all that stuff and all you do is just pay one thing and you don’t think about it very much,” right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s kind of attractive. And so, I was just going to see, you know, “Well, what are the options available?” ‘Cos I had a co-worker space at one point and that was totally fine. But this time, I actually wanted an actual office. So I was like, “What places are there that have that?” And it turns out, there’s one right nearby us, right by where I live, actually.
Jeff:
And Amazon hasn’t driven the price of this sky high and all that?
Casey:
You know, the prices aren’t that bad down there.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
But it is true that… I probably won’t end up renting something [inaudible 19:42] because subsequent to this… This is not part of the story but subsequent to this, I have looked at a bunch of places and you just get stuff for the money. So they have not driven the prices sky high but they definitely have inflated the prices in that area. And I don’t know how much of that is Amazon and how much of that is just the whole Paul Allen [ ridiculous stuff ]…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I don’t know who’s responsible for what but it definitely… Because it’s like, it’s the techie… I don’t know what you want to call it. So not directly in that square… There’s a region that’s got the real serious high brow shit going on where it’s like you look in the window and it’s just crazy town in there, right. It’s actually up further away from that. It’s kind of more where i5 meets Mercer…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Okay? And there’s this co-working space called WeWork. Okay? Like, WeWork.
Jeff:
I immediately thought WiiWork which is awesome.
Casey:
That would’ve been great if it was a Nintendo.
Jeff:
Well it’s a Nintendo game where you have to shake the controller around like you’re working, like you shake it like you pound it like a hammer…
Casey:
Let me tell you something right now, my friend. There is nothing Nintendo about this place.
Jeff:
About WeWork? Okay.
Casey:
So I look up their stuff and I’m like, “Alright, they’ve got offices that you can sublet, right.” So they’ve got what I wanted. But I’m reading the page and I’m like, “Huh…” So there’s some things on there that just strike me as odd when I’m reading the page. I’m like, I’m a little concerned. I’m like, “I don’t really know what this means. Like, it says here ‘free beer on tap’.”
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
That’s like, part of the services. And I’m thinking to myself…
Jeff:
Programmers… Are you getting any programmers?
Casey:
So I don’t know. I’m just saying I don’t know what I’m necessarily getting into but I do have a little bit of an edge on because I’m like, “What kind of a serious work environment has free beer on tap?” Because to me, that says, like, Facebook or some shit. It says to me, like, people who’ve got too much money and aren’t serious about what they do. They just kind of fuck off and they drink or whatever. And you know, and this is why I started to say, like, remember I started this with prejudice… Like, my head is starting to feel a little uncomfortable already. And all I know is that there’s free beer.
Jeff:
That one thing…
Casey:
That’s all I really know. I mean, I didn’t look that closely.
Jeff:
So [ four words in ], you’re a little nervous. Free beer on tap has made you…
Casey:
Right. Anyway, there is a web form, Jeff. There is a web form if you would like to come for a tour.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
So I fill out the web form.
Jeff:
I hate a web form.
Casey:
I fill out the web form on, like, Wednesday.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
Thursday, I don’t get anything. Friday, nothing. Saturday, Sunday, nothing. And when I’d filled out the web form, I’d said I’d like to come for a tour on Monday.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So Monday rolls around and it’s Monday morning. So I pick up the phone and I call the number that’s on there. And someone answers the phone. And I’m like, “Hey, yeah. I wanted to come for a tour. I filled out the web form.” And the person on the other end of the line goes, “Oh, which one are you?” And I’m like, “Casey.” And they’re like, “Oh, yes. We have you here. What time did you want to come in?” I’m like, the time it said on the web form, I’m like, “One o’clock,” or whatever. And like, “Okay.” So I’m like, “Okay, I’ll come down there.”
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So I go down there and I find the place. And it’s kinda off. It’s in a very heavy construction zone so there’s lots of stuff getting built up around there but, you know, I find it okay. They’ve got these big sandwich boards outside. So I go in. and I go in the elevator. I push the button for their floor and I come up. The elevator doors open. And the first thing that I’m looking at just as the doors open, are two giant televisions — one of which is playing an ad for something, I don’t remember. The other one is a bunch of people in bathing suits who are trying to walk on a lake on some inflated tubular thing and they’re falling off into the water…
Jeff:
Oh, okay.
Casey:
This is what… I come out into their lobby and this is the first thing that you see.
Jeff:
You’re assaulted with…
Casey:
So I’m like, “Okay. Fantastic.” I’m like, whatever… I turn the corner. So I turn left. And I walk through the like… Sort of this gated entryway thing. I want into a room that looks like a college dorm rec room. So there is, like, a foosball table. There’s hardwood benches that look like… I don’t know what’s going on there, like, really deep hardwood benches… A bunch of, like, sort of kitchen-y sorts of things. And the reception desk, to the right. Now, the reception desk, there’s 3 people standing at the reception desk at this moment. I do now know how many of them work for the place but I believe it was at least 2. It could’ve been all 3. And there was a 4th person who was about to come who’s the one who’s giving me the tour. So none of these [inaudible 24:50] So there are literally at least 3 people who could have responded to my fucking email about “Can I have a tour”, could not deal with that. Like, that was not on the table. They didn’t have the manpower necessary to return that email yet everyone is standing around doing absolutely nothing. So I’m like, “Okay, fantastic.” I sidle up to the counter. And the… I will give you the people who I am now flanked by. There is a woman behind the reception desk and she is looking at some stuff that I can’t see, right. So, she’s looking at whatever. And she says hello or whatever. Immediately next to me is a woman who looks like she’s in… I don’t want to say… Well, it is kind of a prom dress, basically what would be a modern day prom dress.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
So kind of like almost like a…
Jeff:
A club dress?
Casey:
Like a Jackie O kind of an outfit, like a tight… Fairly tight-fitting but elaborate fabric that you would… It looks really pretty fancy.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I’m like, “I’m worried this is gonna get dirty” kind of thing, right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And next to her is a dude who is leaning on the counter, chatting with all of these people who says the phrase…
Jeff:
He’s swerving on them?
Casey:
I have no idea because I am freaking out at this point.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I momentarily thought to myself, “Maybe I should just walk out of here.”
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I was losing my shit. So I’m like… Well, my brain just kind of froze up. In fact, I don’t know if you saw that thing Fabian sent recently about the fact that any continuous decision problem, there is a perfect point in the middle where it will take an arbitrarily long time to resolve the decision.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Anyway, point being I’m at that place. My brain is frantically trying to figure out what the right thing to do is.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And it’s caught between different bad options and it can’t go. So I’m frozen. I’m saying to the woman, “I’m supposed to have a tour,” because my brain is just continuing to do what it was going to do when it walked in originally while my hindbrain is freaking out.
Jeff:
right.
Casey:
The dude says, “I need like… I mean, basically, I just need a cook for code.” That’s what he said.
Jeff:
Alright. That’s what you walked into.
Casey:
Okay? I don’t know what the preamble to this conversation was and I don’t know what happened after it but he needs a chef. He needs a short-order cook, Jeff, for code.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Because the code needs to get grilled or something, I guess, and he doesn’t… Maybe he’s operating a raw bar right now where the code just kind of comes through and he needs, like, a code cook who’s gonna cook that shit up, who knows how to work a code oven and a code grill.
Jeff:
Well, otherwise you’re cooking that code yourself and that sucks…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
’Cos you get in the kitchen…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Your own kitchen’s messed up. My computer’s a disaster. There’s eggs everywhere…
Casey:
Well, there’s…
Jeff:
There’s bacon grease all over my mouse…
Casey:
Exactly. No, it’s a disaster. I mean, here’s the…
Jeff:
He needed a chef.
Casey:
You need a code chef because let’s put it this way. You need a code hostess. You need someone up at the front who’s gonna take the code customers and show them to their code table. Right?
Jeff:
Oh, yeah.
Casey:
You’ve got to… You don’t want them to just come into an empty… You know, get their own code.
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
This isn’t a code cafeteria. This is code fine dining.
Jeff:
No, no, no. “Please wait to be coded.”
Casey:
Please wait to be…
Jeff:
Right? Yeah, you don’t just sit down willy-nilly.
Casey:
So you’ve got to have a code host, code waiters…
Jeff:
Did you say anything about that?
Casey:
I told you. I’m freaking out. My brain is not… It is all I could do…
Jeff:
You are not in quippy Casey mode. You’re just freaking out.
Casey:
No, no, no.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Okay, but this is why I say I keep emphasizing that racism is at play here, right…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I just want you picture that, right. If you were racist against Black people and you walked into a room full of Black people, most people who are self-conscious about their racism at all are not gonna start being a wise-ass and making racist comments. They’re going to freak out.
Jeff:
So you’re saying you hate the Silicon Valley people.
Casey:
Yes. I am racist…
Jeff:
And you’re now walking into them.
Casey:
I am Racist 2.0.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And I just did that. I walked into a room full of all the people that I reflexively don’t like. And now, I’m self-conscious about my own prejudice against these people.
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
So my brain has gone into that same mode that you would be in, in that situation in the 1960’s or whatever the fuck.
Jeff:
Right. So you’re just like…
Casey:
So I’m like, I’m freaking out, okay. So code chef man, he goes off to keep cooking, I guess, because I guess now that someone has arrived who ostensibly is using the services of the reception desk, maybe he feels a little self-conscious about hanging out with the receptionist all day…
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
Or whatever the fuck is going on there. I have no idea. I also don’t know what the woman next to me’s job is. I don’t know if she’s a receptionist. She may just be some totally other person who just happened to also, like the dude, be hanging out at the reception.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So the 2 people to my left may very well have been people who should’ve been doing some fucking work but instead were up at reception hanging out.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Whatever. Anyway, they go get the tour person.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
The tour person comes out. And she’s like, “Oh, okay, great. Let me give you the tour.” We start walking through the area and she points out the keg of beer.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So that’s there. There was no false advertising.
Jeff:
It was there?
Casey:
Keg of beer. It’s tapped. It’s ready to go.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Okay? So we’re ready to go with that.
Jeff:
Wait, it’s a keg. It’s not like a… It’s a physical keg, like one of those shiny…
Casey:
Yeah, yeah. They load a keg into the…
Jeff:
Every morning?
Casey:
Every morning, there is… Well, I mean, I don’t know if it’s every morning because if it were me, it would last long. I don’t know. They’ve loaded a keg. When I said frat rec room, I mean literally. There is a place to load a keg and there’s a fucking nozzle that you stick your glass under to get the beer.
Jeff:
Sure, okay. But what I’m trying to get at is is it like what you see at a bar or is it literally a frat where it’s a keg with a tap and laid on its side.
Casey:
It’s more like a bar.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
It’s a little more refined than that.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
I think… Now, I can’t remember because like I said, I’m freaking out.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
But she points out the beer. I’m like, “Oh, okay.” I was a little nervous about that. And she said something to kind of assuage me. She was like, “Oh, you know,” whatever, something… So I’m like, okay, I’m losing my shit. I’m like, “Let’s just get through this.” I don’t really have a lot of nervous tics, I guess. So I’m probably just looking like someone who is very displeased with their life right now but I’m probably not… I’m not, like, rocking back and forth. But inside, I am rocking back and forth like Bill Gates being asked about Netscape. And I’m doing this. I’m freaking out…
Jeff:
Right, I’m with you.
Casey:
We go down a narrow corridor and she points out… She’s like, “And here,” and this is along the corridor, “these are our phone booths.”
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Now, what a phone booth is is a place that you can go to make a phone call.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Which I guess even though we’re in Racism 2.0 land, apparently, we still make phone calls as opposed to using…
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
I have no idea what the deal is with that ‘cos they are…
Jeff:
They should call [ with Skype ].
Casey:
Because it’s not like… You could bring your laptop in there if you wanted to, I’m sure. But there’s a fucking phone. There’s a phone on the desk. So…
Jeff:
I wonder if they’re doing that to encourage people not to take calls in the public area or something.
Casey:
Look, dude. I don’t know. I’m just telling you what was there. I don’t know the rules. There’s a phone room. The phone things are, like, padded with this drop down acoustic insulation flaps like the flaps when you go into the meat locker but thicker…
Jeff:
Alright. Awesome.
Casey:
And there’s a phone… There’s a big old light above each one, like an artisanal light bulb sticking out the top of each phone that I guess is lit for if you’re in there. I couldn’t tell because they didn’t look correlated…
Jeff:
This sounds terrible.
Casey:
It’s crazy.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
All the walls are crazy. Everything’s crazy. Concrete floor, blablabla, it’s exactly what you think. The walk through and we get into the offices area. And what the offices are is they have taken these… You can imagine a giant room that you’re gonna divide into offices normally but instead of putting up sheet rock or whatever… I don’t know what they make those flimsy office partitions out of when they partition up a floor. Instead of that, they have just put in glass.
Jeff:
Oh, okay.
Casey:
So your office is really, like, you know, the Panopticon or whatever…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I don’t remember the name of that thing where everyone can see everyone else’s office from where you are. It’s like a giant glass prism thing.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I was like, “That’s a little odd.” To make matters…
Jeff:
It’s like you’re looking at douchiness through a microscope.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And these are the slides that they have specimens…
Casey:
It’s a multi-plate… This was like when they were filming Fantasia. It was all douches. They lined them up like, end deep…
Jeff:
Exactly.
Casey:
And then they can crank it left to right and [inaudible 33:43] there’s an earthquake and you lose your place. The point being Walt Disney or anyone else with talent was not at this particular building at this time.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
We’re walking through there and…
Jeff:
Is it full of people?
Casey:
I wouldn’t use the term “full” but there are definitely people in there.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Okay. So I’m asking about the prices of these places. So we go into a room. And this room had to be… You know, I don’t even know exactly how big the room was but I’m gonna say like a hundred square feet.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I mean, it’s a small god damned room.
Jeff:
Small room.
Casey:
Like, this room… How big would you say is this room behind you is right here?
Jeff:
20 by 20.
Casey:
So I would say 200 square feet. It’s about half the size of that. We walk into a room about half the size of that.
Jeff:
Small room?
Casey:
Small room. It’s like $1,900 or $2,000, something like this. The price per square foot is 120 a year or something. I’m not sure if I’m doing my math right. It’s four times the going rate at the fanciest places I’ve seen in Seattle. It’s absurd.
Jeff:
Right. But they have beer on tap.
Casey:
They have beer on tap and who can put a price on that? There’s no way to put a price on beer.
Jeff:
Yeah, because…
Casey:
So here’s the thing. So I’m like…
Jeff:
There’s no way to put a price on it.
Casey:
I’m like, “Alright, yeah.” Anyway, we walk by and I start to see people who are in offices there. And one of the things that they do… apparently, this is just… They’re down with it is they’ve got, like, grease pencils or magic markers or something…
Jeff:
So you can write on those.
Casey:
They just write on the glass wall.
Jeff:
Write on the glass wall.
Casey:
So imagine, you rent this place…
Jeff:
Oh, I bet there’s some nuggets of info there…
Casey:
Oh, I bet there’s some amazing…
Jeff:
Yeah. You should have probably video recorded that. They’ve probably drawn some boxes…
Casey:
Right, some boxes that connect…
Jeff:
And some connect…
Casey:
Right. This is the cloud, and there’s a little fluffy cloud. And here’s where the social network connects up to the cloud.
Jeff:
Yeah. It’s a shame you didn’t get a picture of that shit.
Casey:
I should’ve brought a camera if I had… I didn’t know I was walking into this. I should’ve known maybe from the free beer thing. But like I said, I didn’t know. So anyway, I’m thinking, “Oh, great.” And not only would I have douche scrawl on my wall but it’s mirror douche scrawl. So I’m seeing the cloud reversed. I’m seeing the [inaudible 35:57] right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Because it’s backwards.
Jeff:
There’s gonna be like, cocks… Like, where the dude in the other one sitting next to you. He’s drawn it so that it’s going straight into your face. And you’re like, “Seriously, dud?” he’s like, “Can I get you a beer?” “No.”
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
No!
Casey:
Alright. So you’re thinking at this point that the douche level, you kind of… You’ve got to feel for it but you don’t so buckle up, my friend. So we keep walking through there. And obviously mostly… If the alien came down from outer space, went on this tour, went back up to the mother ship, right, and they asked him, “What do the humans there do during the day at this WeWork space?” And you’re like, “They check Facebook…” There is nothing happening…
Jeff:
Shared office space, in general, is Facebook. It’s Facebook space.
Casey:
It’s all Facebook. So I saw one person doing something that may have been work which was he was editing a music video. That’s the only thing that I saw. So it’s like, that looks like… I mean, unless he was doing it for fun, for all I know, maybe it could’ve been, but assuming that his job was the production of music videos, he was doing work. Everyone else, I have no idea what they’re doing. I did see a placard, 2 check boxes (this was on someone’s wall). Line item 1/check box 1 — Kick ass.
Jeff:
That was written down?
Casey:
Kick ass.
Jeff:
Or printed?
Casey:
Hold on. It’s a placard. Like a full on placard like a wall hanging.
Jeff:
Okay. Yeah.
Casey:
Check box 2 — Take names.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Both of these check boxes were checked.
Jeff:
Oh, yeah.
Casey:
So apparently the names had already been taken and the ass had already been kicked. And yet, this person was still in the office. Why? I do not know.
Jeff:
He was still at a shared office space.
Casey:
He was still at a shared office space.
Jeff:
I like…
Casey:
I forgot about that. Yes.
Jeff:
He kicked ass. He took names. And he’s still in the shared office space. The thing about… At some point, somebody came up with the phrase, “I’m gonna kick ass and take names.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
I don’t think he imagined the pussification of that.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like that… I mean, the only way you make that more flaccid…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Is if it was knitted, say on a pillow.
Casey:
Right, right. It’s a sampler.
Jeff:
Yeah, like that’s it… You can’t make it worse than saying something like that and turning it into a little check box. Yeah.
Casey:
Right. No, man. I was PHP coding today. I took ass… I took ass, that’s kinda… Took ass and checked names…
Jeff:
That’s…
Casey:
That’s the new one.
Jeff:
Well, that’s PHP, to be clear.
Casey:
Took ass and checked names. Yes.
Jeff:
Just because you tried to kick ass but then you forgot the dollar sign… ‘Cos I’ve been down the PHP lab for a while.
Casey:
Well, it’s for [inaudible 38:57] or whatever the fuck but yeah. . . So I’m like, “Alright, that was the cherry on the shit sundae right there, that little placard.” I’m like, “That’s what I’m going to see.” So I’m already like, I can’t rent space here. If they were like, “We’ll give it to you for free,” I’d be like, “I’m sorry. I can’t.” So I’m losing my shit. They have not brought it to the next level yet. I did not realize they were ready to close this deal, Jeff. They were ready to close this deal. We walk in there. She points to the right. She’s like, “This is our Xbox 1 Lounge.”
Jeff:
Oh, right.
Casey:
Alright? So got the Xbox 1 Lounge… Got the Xbone in there.
Jeff:
A lot of Call of Duty on that Xbox.
Casey:
She said to me I may play a lot of Call of Duty in there. She said that. I’m like, “Alright. I don’t play Call of Duty because I like good games.” Anyway, losing my shit, we then walk but the next room after the Xbone lounge…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Oh site, Jeff. It is on site. Alright? So this is not… We did not work out of the WeWork space.
Jeff:
You’re still in it.
Casey:
We did not go down the elevator. We did not go back to the lobby. We went from the ass-kicking, name-taking man’s office.
Jeff:
To the Xbox Lounge. . .
Casey:
To the Xbox Lounge…
Jeff:
Past the Xbox Lounge…
Casey:
To the on-site office of Microsoft Venture Partners.
Jeff:
Awesome. So you just walked straight up…
Casey:
Okay?
Jeff:
Yeah. Alright.
Casey:
The VC is on the same floor, in the same office space. There is one glass divider separating you from the Microsoft Venture Partners at all times. That is where you are at. Technically, two, I supposed. Getting out of your office and then into the other… Topologically speaking, you have two to go through.
Jeff:
Yeah. Well, it’s like the large intestine and the small. Like, you go from one… You’re being squeezed through…
Casey:
The colon… The sigmoid. Yes.
Jeff:
Slowly and then you’re emitted into venture capital.
Casey:
Now, she just wants to point out (so that I have the full feel of the [41:22])
Jeff:
Did they use the phrase “incubator” anywhere? Because incubator is like, that is shared office space now. It’s like, “Hey, our incubator.” And you’re like…
Casey:
Our incubator, yeah.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Now mind you… Just so we know, there’s two… When I think of incubator, there’s 2 things I think of, right. And really, one of them I think just pretty much nails it. And that is an incubator is something that you put the crack baby in because it was born premature.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
You are trying to keep this poor deformed baby or whatever the fuck…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Warm enough so that it doesn’t die. And that’s exactly the feeling that I got from this space.
Jeff:
I think of those little warmers that they keep the little baby chicks in…
Casey:
Yeah, that’s the other one.
Jeff:
So it just stinks like chicken shit. That’s all it is.
Casey:
So they’re incubating. She wants to let me know that they have office hours, every day, from end to end. I don’t know what it was. So if you just wanted to go in there and chat with Microsoft Venture Partners… Just to kick some ideas around, you know, see how it goes with them, what are they interested in, what do they think about this idea, Jeff…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Is this something they might be interested in, in a round or 2? Just a round, let’s say…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Maybe over a few free beers…
Jeff:
Some [ series-es ].
Casey:
Some [ series-es ].
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
How many [ series-es ] would you say you’d be up for in this particular ass-kicking, name-taking situation? I’m like, “Okay, I guess I’ve got the tour. We’re gonna go and make our egress now and never come back to this place again. It shall be… We will not speak of this experience. This will just be our little secret. I will not tell someone on the doll where they touched me, etcetera, etcetera.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So I walk out of there. And this is when I started to have the realization that I was telling you about at the [ heading ]. It’s like, I feel like I am more connected now, in an empathetic way, to the old racist grandma who doesn’t want her son dating the Black woman or whatever.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I have had this feeling of there’s the other and they’re at the WeWork space and I want nothing to do… Like, the very existence disturbs me.
Jeff:
Well, that’s what I was gonna say. I don’t think you’re looking at racism. I mean, racism implies, at least to me… There’s 2 parts of what I consider racism.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And it’s probably… ‘Cos racism is, like, obviously believing something about a group of people based on preconception.
Casey:
And technically, it is not racism because these people aren’t a race. But it’s the same mindset. Just because they’re not a race, they’re a thing to me. They’re a group that I have clustered together.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Right. So that’s prejudiced, not racist, but you know what I mean.
Jeff:
Yes, that’s a better way to say it. It’s prejudiced.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Yeah. Because racist also implies to me that what you are doing in your head is not necessarily true. And everything you said is true. Like, all you need to do is… Like, if we went to Silicon Valley, it’s WeWorks over the whole city.
Casey:
Right, yeah.
Jeff:
And it’s… I mean, it’s hard for people to really understand the contempt that actual engineers have for that kind of culture.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Right? Because you know… And there’s that show, “Silicon Valley”, on HBO and they talk about that where they all behave really as if this is how it is and not most of the people in the tech world also think that’s ridiculous, right?
Casey:
Right, yes. That’s true.
Jeff:
It’s this weird subset that’s front-facing that people believe is how we aspire to be.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
So certainly, the WeWork guy is like, “All the people that I know that are like, incubating up want fucking beer. And they want…”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
“An Xbox…”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Where they’re actively pushing away people that have a chance at being successful.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
So the racism part in this case, I felt like… I don’t know if that’s racism as much as self-preservation. You know how fucking douche-y they are. And you’re just trying to stay away from them. It’s not necessarily racist.
Casey:
Here’s the thing. Here’s why I say it’s racism. It’s Racism 2.0, I love that phrase. The reason I say that it’s Racism 2.0 is because I did not take the time to confirm that each individual person was a douchebag.
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
I simply saw… I guarantee you that someone in there is a douchebag. That we pretty much could tell. I mean, there’s no question about that. But that doesn’t mean that they’re all douchebags, right? And this is kind of the thing about racism. It’s saying, like… You know, you can take, for any race, you can find a bad apple, right? And you can choose to say, like, “Oh, the things are true because such and such a person is this way. And so, I’m gonna project that on to the whole race,” right? You can do that. And I feel like what I’m saying is I was definitely doing that. There may have been some honest, hard-working people in there who just happened to be checking their Facebook page right now, as hard as that might seem to believe. Or maybe the guy who was editing the music video, maybe he’s a talented music video editor and he just liked that space because he couldn’t find some place to rent otherwise or whatever the fuck…
Jeff:
But that’s less of a point…
Casey:
Right?
Jeff:
Like, yes, that’s bad if those people are misrepresented…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But they also chose to work there, right?
Casey:
Oh, okay.
Jeff:
So there’s a little bit of things of, like, “Hey…” Let’s say you’re a Black person.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And you looked up this place and they’re like, “Oh, it’s… Come rent an apartment from us.” And then you got there and they’re like, “Well, let me tell you all about our complex. We have free fried chicken. Here’s where all the watermelon is…”
Casey:
Right. And the drug dealers are here.
Jeff:
And you’re like…
Casey:
And you’re like…
Jeff:
“Okay, this is not good.”
Casey:
Okay. I see.
Jeff:
And then… But then you start looking around and then you go, “But, well, these people in here may not necessarily be racist.” But you’re like, “They overlooked all these hints of…”
Casey:
Well, maybe… All I’m saying is that even in that scenario that you’re describing, you just… You have to confirm it. You don’t know the circumstances of each individual. In other words, yes, maybe somebody is doing something that appears to confirm stereotypes about, in this case, not their race but their profession…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Okay? But that doesn’t necessarily mean that it is true. There could have been other reasons why they ended up… For example, I will give you a totally… A potentially valid explanation. Let’s say the guy who was editing a video, alright… So he was doing some work. It was not like he was fucking off in there. He was doing work. Maybe he’s like, “Yeah, man. I fucking hate this place but all my clients, this is what they want to see. They want to see the stupid hip environments. They come in here. They want the Hip 2.0 video editing. And I’m like, I told them I could do that back when I was down in the fucking warehouse or whatever and they didn’t believe me. Moved here, all of a sudden, I get all the jobs.” Right? So I could construct narratives in my head that are exactly the situation where the person had to identify with the douchebag-y-ness to be able to survive in his industry. And maybe you could say that that’s a low-integrity thing to do. But okay, everybody has to do stuff like that sometimes, I think. And it wasn’t morally bankrupt to do it. He’s not killing starving children or something. He’s just working at a douchebag place.
Jeff:
I’m just saying… I feel like that is really pushing the limits of political… Trying to be so correct at that point of, like… If you’re at the point where despite the evidence around you, you can construct possibilities of the person not being douche-y, I can totally get that. That’s, like, the most refined… Not refined. Most open-minded…
Casey:
Introspective…
Jeff:
Yes. Way to be…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But there’s also the common sense art of it which is just like…
Casey:
Well…
Jeff:
Because otherwise, it ends up being like, “Oh, higher education nonsense…”
Casey:
I know what you’re saying. I know what you’re saying. Let me get this out in the open. I’m going to fix these attitudes.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Okay? So the… [inaudible 50:26] right?
Jeff:
I’m just saying that attitude, it feels more like self-preservation. I think you made a good call.
Casey:
My Racism 2.0 is staying. Like, I am comfortable with this. I am the old racist grandma. That is who I am and I am happy with that. We are totally fine with that. And until my future son or daughter starts dating someone from Silicon Valley and I have to get over it and be the bigger man or whatever the fuck it is that life wants me to be, I will remain a Racist 2.0 asshole.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Up until that point.
Jeff:
Yes. Your daughter marries a PHP…
Casey:
Yes, a PHP script idiot or something, yes. So I totally know what you’re saying. That’s gonna be the hardest conversation because I raised my daughter right. I taught her to program C or whatever the fuck. She’s hardcore, right, and she ends up dating this fucking flake PHP dude with the stupid outfits and… Oh, God. Yeah. It’s bad.
Jeff:
And he’s talking about his incubator…
Casey:
And his code cookery. He’s like, “I’ve got to open up the code microwave and get this code TV dinner heated up.”
Jeff:
That’s what he really wants. He doesn’t want a code cook. He wants a code microwave.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Because he’s not waiting around…
Casey:
No, he’s not
Jeff:
He wants a one-press button…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
For code to come out.
Casey:
This is responsive layout, this is Agile…
Jeff:
“Why can’t I get dehydrated code that I simply add a little water to…”
Casey:
Yeah, just rehydrate… Right. You just add bits. Just pour some bits in there and it all shakes out into the right place.
Jeff:
Yeah. I mean…
Casey:
So that’s my story. I told you I didn’t want to tell it to you before [inaudible 52:01] podcast.
Jeff:
We could go back to that place.
Casey:
What place?
Jeff:
WeWork.
Casey:
Oh, you want to come with me?
Jeff:
Well, what we could do is start asking them, like, “Well, where’s your mechanical bull?” Like…
Casey:
Right…
Jeff:
Can we, like, escalate…
Casey:
And be like, “You guys aren’t… This isn’t… You’re trying to have a slice of Silicon Valley here. [inaudible 52:20] shit…”
Jeff:
“I’m looking for an incubator. And this is just shared office space. This is ridiculous.”
Casey:
Wait, I… “Like, if you want to take on the titans of technology, you gotta have beer pong. There is no ping pong table there at all. So you have half the equation? Like, well, that’s great. I guess you have a server and no client? What the fuck?” You know, like, “You’ve got to bring the whole package to Microsoft Venture Partners or whatever the fuck it is…”
Jeff:
Yeah, ‘cos that’s…
Casey:
’Cos they’re not gonna invest in any rounds of this no mechanical bull, no ping pong table wasteland that you created here. Now granted, Jeff, I will point out one thing. And you know, I do not know the roadmap. And I bet they have a slide that says roadmap for WeWork. But they did say very specifically… ‘Cos they showed me 2 floors. There were 2 floors of this thing. They had rented out all 3 floors of the building. They did say the 3rd floor is [ coming along in the summer. ] So maybe the beer pong is coming. Maybe the mechanical bull and the beer pong are en route and it’s just like a die shrink, right? It’s like a tick-tock, the mechanical bull happens on the tock…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And we’ve only got a tick here, right?
Jeff:
So they’re gonna drop that in there…
Casey:
They’re gonna drop that in there…
Jeff:
Look for a whole new round of people…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Probably have some mixing space up there so you can just be hanging around with your fellow entrepreneurs…
Casey:
You’ve got to mix it up. Yeah. That sort of thing.
Jeff:
And just see what happens…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You know, bounce ideas off each other.
Casey:
You just gotta bounce it. Dance floor, [ feel like… Probably some contact ]…
Jeff:
We’re gonna put it in. Nobody’s gonna dance on it…
Casey:
No, no, no, no…
Jeff:
They’ll stand around it, listening to the beat.
Casey:
Well, actually, probably…
Jeff:
Right? Do they have an on-staff DJ? That’s my question. If we don’t have somebody…
Casey:
Jeff, let me tell you something right now. The ratio of people at WeWork versus people who would consider themselves a DJ at WeWork…
Jeff:
True.
Casey:
It’s probably… It’s one to one, right? It’s not two to one. It’s not three to one. It’s one to one.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So I have a feeling that you will have no problem… The problem you will have is that you will have to have (and it better be online and it better be responsive) a system for determining whose turn it is to DJ today.
Jeff:
That’s true. We could make an app for that.
Casey:
We could make an app for that.
Jeff:
Where you’re like… You try to get in, you’re like, “Has this ever happened to you?”
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
You want to do some DJ-ing. You go up to the DJ booth. There’s a crowd. They’re all crowding around. They all have a different idea of what Katy Perry to play. And so, you say to yourself, “How did I find myself in this situation and is there not a technological solution?”
Casey:
Exactly.
Jeff:
And so you get into your app… I don’t know what we’ll call it. iDJ or something like that.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
[ NoWaitDJ ], something… You enter in some stuff.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You can log in with a Facebook ID or Google+, either one. You get in there and you enter. You get on the list, right?
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Now, here’s the problem.
Casey:
What’s the problem?
Jeff:
You might have a long wait.
Casey:
You might have a long wait.
Jeff:
Here’s the thing. With micro-transactions…
Casey:
Monetize… Holy shit, dude…
Jeff:
You can buy your way up to the top of the list, right, because if you’re waiting to get your DJ on…
Casey:
Holy shit.
Jeff:
And you’re sitting there and you’re like, “This is gonna take all night. I’m never gonna get my time. I can pay to move up this place.”
Casey:
Dude, this is amazing. You know what? Here’s the thing, though. Let me just get this out there.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I think you’re ignoring the social network aspects of this.
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
And I feel like they’ve got to be integrated. So here’s what I’m thinking.
Jeff:
Yeah, we don’t have a social component.
Casey:
Here’s the problem, right. You go to the club and you’re dancing and why are you dancing to music that isn’t tailored for you? Okay? Why are you dancing to music that isn’t tailored to you and your friends? I say, new dance floor model, everyone wears their headphones connected to their iPhone, first of all.
Jeff:
That’s right.
Casey:
To start with. So there’s no speakers. Speakers are not in the mix. Everyone’s wearing their headphones. The “DJ” is you. The whole crowd… It is a Crowd-Source DJ model. You are both DJ-ing and dancing to other people’s DJ-ing at the same time.
Jeff:
At the same time, right. Why do one or the other?
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
Why do one or the other?
Casey:
Yeah, exactly.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And we take it up an additional notch. We use, like, the NSC capabilities of modern phones. If I touch my phone to you, we will start dancing to the same song. Right?
Jeff:
Right, right.
Casey:
Right? So we can join our dance together and then we can also bring our dance apart. So it’s kind of a dynamic social network, make & break dancing…
Jeff:
Kind of situation…
Casey:
Yeah. Kind of situation…
Jeff:
If enough people like your DJ-ing, too…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Like, you could move up and like, have a progressively wider area that you can influence, right?
Casey:
Exactly.
Jeff:
And so, if somebody is a great DJ, he walks in, nobody’s listening to anything but him.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
He overwhelms it, right?
Casey:
Exactly.
Jeff:
He can bring it back if he feels like it.
Casey:
If he wants to but why does he want to?
Jeff:
He may not want to.
Casey:
He doesn’t want to.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I don’t think he does.
Jeff:
No, I think that’s a good idea. I think…
Casey:
I do, too.
Jeff:
Yeah. I think the idea that, you know… And it’s also a shared office space so I think the headphone dance floor is a good idea just in terms of noise.
Casey:
Yeah, right.
Jeff:
So you just have a lot of just feet hitting the ground.
Casey:
Feet on the concrete…
Jeff:
Yeah, just kind of tapping along.
Casey:
But all to different rhythms because everyone’s listening to a different song.
Jeff:
That happens anyway with [inaudible 57:29] That’s on the table, regardless.
Casey:
Awesome.
Jeff:
Yeah, I like that. So if we can get the DJ, we can get the ball in there…
Casey:
Yeah. To be honest, I don’t have a lot of experience with Silicon Valley, actually. So I don’t really know what else you need. But I will say one thing that did sort of… I mean, from what I’ve heard. One thing that did strike me as rather odd, if I was gonna seriously consider this particular space, is that… You know, the dude says he wants a code chef. What about a regular chef? My understanding is that if you’re a Silicon Valley company, there is a chef or chefs on site specializing in various cuisines.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I don’t go out to get my lunch.
Jeff:
I want an organic code chef, right?
Casey:
I want an organic code chef.
Jeff:
Locally-sourced…
Casey:
Locally-sourced…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I would say free-range code. This code should not have had any pesticides so there’s no debugging…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Which actually is true. In Silicon Valley, there’s no debugging. That’s just a given. There’s no debugging. It’s totally pesticide-free.
Jeff:
You want your gluten-free code, too.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Because, like, some [ people just ] have a problem with gluten, right?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You know…
Casey:
That’s what… When I say optimizing code, what I mean is getting those sticky bits, that gluten, out of there. You don’t want them in there. So the easiest way is to just not put it in there in the first place.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Don’t have those sorts of code-binding agents.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
I like that. So I think we could go back there and just kind of escalate and see if we can get… The other thing is we could… That is one of those things that…
Casey:
I’d have to go in disguise now. They might recognize me.
Jeff:
No matter what we do, it makes the world worse because they may listen to you. They may go, “This is what people want,” right? You really want to pull them aside and say, “Okay, what you’re doing here, the people you’re trying to imagine in your mind are your customers are horrible people.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
“And so, that’s not what you want,” and just see if you can educate them on that side.
Casey:
On the actually… So this isn’t racism front but from a classism front. I have kind of a pretty big problem with this at some level, as well. Because the only… In my mind, the only reason any of the people at this office have jobs at all or money or could even be in this space for the free beer and whatever the fuck else it is, right, is because of this sort of… The fact that it’s a freely replicable technology. We talked about this before. So like, you know, there’s just so much money in it because you don’t have to produce… It’s all profit basically. It’s one of the very few things that has global reach, all profit, no distribution cost, no nothing, right? So it’s just a shit ton of money there. And basically, there’s this whole class of fungus, basically, that are just people who can carry around a Macbook and appear to talk about things that have to do with web or whatever the fuck. And in my mind, they are much less useful than the people who are putting together cars in Detroit who are all the fuck out of work right now, right? And it’s like, now we’ve just got useless people sucking up thousands of Dollars of office space for no fucking reason, right. It’s like this big money sponge. That money could have been better spent on people actually making shit in a factory somewhere. I’m like, “This is a bad deal for society.” It is a really bad deal. And these people, you now, because that WeWork space probably cost about as much as a fucking factory with all the perks that they have and all the other… It bothers me at some level…
Jeff:
I think at the limit, though, that’s a self-correcting thing.
Casey:
You think so?
Jeff:
Yeah, just because… I mean, the price software goes to at the limit is zero because it is… What ends up happening is that it is very easy to take something that exists and make another version of it, right? Like, that’s like, “Just go make this.” There’s not a lot of planning necessary. You just go do that one thing. So I believe that at the long term, all those people just vanish. We’re just in this weird place. It’s the weird gold rush that we’re in now, right? It’s like, it’s the guy who’s selling $50 shovels in the gold rush days. It’s like, “Yes, you’re a scumbag and you’re not doing anything.” And you’re perpetuating a myth of profits and prosperity when you’re really just burning your [ twenties ].
Casey:
This is what I’m trying to say. It’s different, though, and that’s the unfortunate part. It’s different because imagine how much longer the asshole selling the shovels can stay in business and how much more money he can make when he literally, for zero Dollars, gets to sell shovels to everyone on planet earth, right? And so, the rope on these things is just too long…
Jeff:
But that works both ways, too. Like, that’s why the app store is such a disaster. It’s like, if you do something that’s cool, it’s cloned in a week.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And there’s no way to tell the difference especially because they’ll use names that are almost the same as yours anyway.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So I think at the limit, that can…
Casey:
I hope so because all these people are sucking up way too much money. And if they worked… If the office space at WeWorks, if I was like, “How much is this office?” And they were like, “It’s $200 a month.” I would’ve been like, “Okay. You guys are not doing any work but you’re doing it for very little money. You are not robbing the economy of resources that should’ve been put towards something besides your douche-y ass taking names and kicking ass or whatever you think your placard is saying.”
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
But that is not what it was. It’s ridiculously expensive and there’s all these… And there were fucking 4 people at the front desk, for Christ’s sake. Why is that happening? Jesus.
Jeff:
I think there’s a separate problem of a lot of those kinds of office… A lot of those perks that they’re using are actually bad perks. Like, they’re perpetuating a frat boy kind of environment that’s bad for a number of other reasons that perpetuates a lot of other things…
Casey:
You think so?
Jeff:
Yeah, I mean…
Casey:
I didn’t consider that aspect of it but I do believe that.
Jeff:
There’s that separate thing of, like, the programmer culture thing…
Casey:
Like, “Oh, party time.. Bro it out, bro.”
Jeff:
Yeah, where. . . “Hey, let’s just…” I mean, that fosters a weird… Horrible things happen around that wake of… I mean ‘cos, hey, yes, they’re mostly men in this thing.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
So, “Oh, hey, we’re all bro-ing out. It’s kind of funny,” and like, blablabla… But there’s bad things about it becoming not something you just joke about but almost institutional of like…
Casey:
Yeah, yeah.
Jeff:
“Of course we have beer at the fucking office. And of course we… And what, we just kind of blow off steam.” It’s like…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Well, the way you’re blowing off that steam is really perpetuating a bad attitude that twenty-year old dudes tend to have anyway, right?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So there’s that separate thing of whether the culture of Silicon Valley as an evil thing is, you know, completely independent of the fact that you’d never want to work at that office space.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Like, “No, you’re actually just making it bad. Period.”
Casey:
Well… So I believe, Jeff… And I could be very wrong about this but I believe there are… Because co-working spaces have this. I didn’t look because I wasn’t interested in it but I bet they do… You can pay usually a daily drop-in fee. So I believe that if we need to, if the need arises, you and I could take our laptops and do a hard day’s work…
Jeff:
Yeah, and see what happens.
Casey:
At WeWork Seattle.
Jeff:
Just to…
Casey:
We absolutely could. I don’t know if I can take it but we could certainly try.
Jeff:
What we should do is bring the podcast and just set up the microphones and it’s like, “We’re at WeWork, guys.” And be like, “Hey, guys. We’re at WeWork.” And then like, the MegaTimer, we put all into a backpack and we set it up at WeWork and do one on-site.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
We’ve not had podcast studios on the road yet.
Casey:
We have not. But they’re gonna see us talking about them. I don’t know how that’s gonna work.
Jeff:
Well, I think it’s all great. It’s drama. And that’s what we’re trying to do.
Casey:
We could fucking interview them.
Jeff:
Mmhmm, just say, “Hey, what do you do?”
Casey:
And be like, “Hey, come on over here. What you working on? You got a little Facebook feed going on in there? Yeah? [inaudible 66:07]”
Jeff:
“We’re just doing some, you know, that podcasting… That social podcasting…”
Casey:
Yeah. “It’s on iTunes. It’s on the iTunes.”
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
[ “Have you seen the iTunes?” ]
Jeff:
“You want to come over and see this?”
Casey:
Yeah. “Got my feed going.”
Jeff:
I feel like if you did that, they’d just hang themselves. We would not have to say…
Casey:
No, no, no. You wouldn’t have to put…
Jeff:
We just get them on…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And just let them go.
Casey:
Yeah. “What you got up there on the…”
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
“What you got on that…” Yeah. “I see you’ve got a diagram there.”
Jeff:
So tell me… I wonder if the guy who kicked ass and took names…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Maybe he took names first. And so, for a while, just took names… He wrote everybody’s name down…
Casey:
Then he kicked all the ass at once.
Jeff:
Maybe he never got around to it. He’s still got half of it. He took their names…
Casey:
But he checked it off…
Jeff:
Both of them were checked.
Casey:
Yes. I’m saying. They were both checked is the problem.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
He was the… I don’t know what he was still doing there. I mean, once he took the names and kicked the ass, what was there left to do?
Jeff:
He could just go home. It’s five o’clock.
Casey:
It’s done. Yeah. There’s nothing left to do.
Jeff:
Have a beer.
Casey:
Have a few beers. Maybe that’s what he was doing.
Jeff:
Alright, everybody. God damn it.
Casey:
Now, I will say one… The only thing I’ll say… We’re closing up the podcast. The one thing I’ll say in their defense, I did not see any Solitaire. That’s the only thing because they didn’t know how to get to it. Probably there isn’t one on Mac OSX or something.
Jeff:
I wonder how their… Did they mention what their bandwidth was at these places? Is that a selling point at all? Are they like, “Oh…”
Casey:
As long as you can load Facebook, who the fuck cares? They don’t know. They don’t even know what bandwidth is, probably, unless… They’re not gonna host there.
Jeff:
That’s true. Alright, everybody… God damn it…
Casey:
Yep.
Jeff:
This did not make me… Usually at the end of a podcast, I feel better…
Casey:
You feel purged.
Jeff:
No, I don’t. I’m just…
Casey:
I wound you up.
Jeff:
You wound me up, yeah.
Casey:
It’s bad.
Jeff:
Yeah. Alright, everybody. Well, if you have a topic for us, please email us.
Casey:
Yes. Well, I think about… You know what, let’s give… Maybe we’ll give the listeners something to think about. What is your Racist 2.0 thing? What are you racist about that’s not really a race but it’s a group of people that you harbor an aversion to that you apply without first finding out if the individuals in that group really deserve this aversion?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Write in to the podcast. Write in to Podcast@JeffAndCaseyShow.com and tell us what your Racist 2.0 groups are. And we will discuss them on a future episode…
Jeff:
That’s a good one. To see what everybody else has…
Casey:
Of the Jeff & Casey Show.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Thank you so much for listening.
Jeff:
What if we just get, like… Like, we’ve asked for that and we get, like, literally Black people, homos, and you’re like…
Casey:
We’re like, that’s not 2.0.
Jeff:
That’s not… You’re still 1.0. God damn it.
Casey:
What the fuck? It could happen.
Jeff:
It could happen.
Casey:
Yeah. We want 2.0 racism here, people.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Not 1.0. 1.0 racism is done.
Jeff:
We’re done with 1.0 racism.
Casey:
We’re done with 1.0 racism. If you want to have the fucking Geocities racism with the bouncing marquee tag back and forth…
Jeff:
I am totally…
Casey:
Whatever. But modern Ajax racism, not about Blacks, not about homosexuals. That is old school shit.
Jeff:
Can I be Racism 2.0 against C# programmers? Just period? Just wipe them out? Alright. Well, thanks everybody. We will talk to you next week.
Casey:
See you next week.
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casey muratori
the jeff and casey show - season 4 - episode 14
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