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The Technician
No Imperfections Noted
The Jeff and Casey Show
Jeff and Casey Time
Casey Muratori
Seattle, WA
A Virus in the Toilet
"I want to know that at least one, if not two, washed-up rappers has personally approved the speaker technology in my thermostat."
Original air date: May 19th, 2014
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Transcript
Jeff:
It’s not going. See, I have to… Alright. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Jeff & Casey Show.
Casey:
So we’ve done 2 podcasts. This is the third one in a row. So I feel like at this point, the excuse of you having done the MegaTimer in 2 weeks is not applicable.
Jeff:
Well, every time, I’m like… I switch to stopwatch mode and hit start and it doesn’t clear. I don’t think there’s a way without hitting that to clear it.
Casey:
Someday, you’re gonna read the manual and it’s all gonna become clear.
Jeff:
It does not come with a manual.
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
That’s the awesome thing about this.
Casey:
Are you serious?
Jeff:
It did not come with a manual. Two of them have it. It’s not like…
Casey:
They’re just gonna be like, “It’s so easy, you’ll just figure it out.”
Jeff:
Yeah. It’s like people just get it.
Casey:
It’s like, “No, you won’t.” So are there, like, kindergarten classrooms all over the world where these things are just in a drawer ‘cos no one could figure out how to use them?
Jeff:
I would assume that also, because you have to turn so much stuff on and off on the side here that they eat so many batteries, you’re just like, “Fuck it.”
Casey:
’Cos they forget to clear the light or something.
Jeff:
Mmhmm…
Casey:
Alright, well… So Jeff, a couple things that I want to address. So lately, I don’t know if you’ve noticed but I was undertaking a minor social experiment that you may not have been aware of.
Jeff:
No, I don’t think so.
Casey:
So because I have been listening to the earlier Jeff & Casey Shows so I can kind of clean all of it up, get the first season out. I'm still working on getting all the transcripts in place, just marching all that stuff. And at that time was, like, in the heyday where I would get lots of really bad links from you every day.
Jeff:
Oh, I see. Of animal links and such?
Casey:
And it wasn’t necessarily animal links. That was a brunt of it but it was also just bad links in general. But yeah, animals were the brunt of it and they were super… Like, we were even trying at one point… We talked about this on the show. You were trying to actually send the least interesting animal links. It would be like a cat on a table or something and you’d be like, “Send it,” right. So lately, I decided for a month or 2, I would try…
Jeff:
You’ve been sending me.
Casey:
Exactly.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I tried to see if I could turn the tables and see would you feel the same feelings if I started sending you just whatever random shit was on my screen. So I was sending you, like, bad pirate costumes…
Jeff:
Yeah, you sent me some pirate costumes which doesn’t have anything… ‘Cos you started, and I realize this… It’s all becoming clear now… You started with just some animals. There were animals, initially.
Casey:
Right, there were animals, whatever.
Jeff:
And then you’re just like, “Here’s a pirate.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like, unless the pirate was like a cat… In fact, I think I replied with a cat dressed up as a pirate…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
I said, “This is more my style,” and you just kept sending fucking pirates.
Casey:
And that is… So I guess I succeeded. I succeeded in you going through what I went through which is me trying to tell you that, “I’m not interested in these animal links. Could you send me something else?” And you just keep sending me the animal links.
Jeff:
But I just kept looking at them. I didn’t stop. I guess I was okay with that.
Casey:
Well, so anyway…
Jeff:
Interestingly, now that’s good because I stopped reading Reddit about 2 weeks ago and so, I don’t have my daily source of animal links.
Casey:
I see.
Jeff:
So I don’t know these things.
Casey:
Why did you stop reading Reddit?
Jeff:
Just ‘cos it, about the third time in a row, there was one of these Reddit explosions where they get so self-righteous that they turn to threatening the lives of people.
Casey:
Oh, really? What was…
Jeff:
Yeah, by these weird storms that Reddit gets where they get mad at something and then are so horrible to people online in that standard way that internet people can be horrible and it could get that…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
So it’s like, “I don’t need to be part of this crazy community that is so psychotic and…”
Casey:
It’s interesting, the way you described it because the way you described it makes it sound like, in the future, they may look at these… In fact, I guess… Hmmm… This is very interesting. So the way that you cast that… Unintentionally, mind you, but the way you cast it actually makes it sound like we are the natives of some land and we don’t understand the gods and their ways.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And we attribute lightning to whatever… Those sorts of things, right? Right now, when anyone looks at the internet, there are all these… They’re projecting all of this shit. They’re like, “Oh, there’s people and there’s psychology and feminism and anti-feminism going here and people behave differently online ‘cos the social…” They constructed this whole mythology, none of which was backed by any data at all that they are trying to explain what they see online. When really, it’s meteorological. Like, it could just be that it’s a Reddit storm. No, no, no. There’s not people doing things and thinking shit through. This is just a natural thing. So in the future, there may just be forecast. It may be like, “Alright, people. So you probably don’t want to read these sites this weekend because there’s a Reddit hurricane coming. We’ve been tracking it. It started out…”
Jeff:
[ And then, like, the sub-Reddits have been floating a little bit… ]
Casey:
Yes, right, exactly, the sub-Reddits… Yeah.
Jeff:
But now, it’s filtering out to the front page.
Casey:
Yes, right.
Jeff:
And all it’s gonna take is the right thing…
Casey:
It started out as an Instagram storm and then we’re now moving it up to a category 3 Reddit.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You know, like whatever… And then, it’s just a known quantity. And yes, some people get injured in the process. But we know about that’s going on, we prepare for it. And it’s okay. We keep some reading supplies.
Jeff:
And there’s been some really bad ones, right? So like…
Casey:
So they tell you… The government issues things and they’re like, “Keep 3 days worth of Netflix downloaded. Do not go on the internet for 3 days. Everyone needs to be prepared for that eventuality while these storms blow over.”
Jeff:
Well, I’ve noticed this about myself recently which is waking up in the morning, doing the same things — You wake up, check Twitter, check Facebook…
Casey:
Yeah, who doesn’t have Facebook anymore?
Jeff:
Check email… Yeah, well all of these and then Reddit. And then you’re like… Okay, yeah, it takes 20 minutes, whatever, and not like it’s a wasted 20 minutes but at the same time, I’m not gonna do anything. I’m just gonna sit there and blink in bed anyway.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
But I didn’t like the way it set my day up.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like Twitter, I just follow the RAD people because if there’s something cool, they’ll re-Tweet it.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
I got rid of my Facebook.
Casey:
Yep.
Jeff:
And then I was like… Something crazy is gonna happen on Reddit occasionally and you will miss out on some things because it is fairly unique in terms of…
Casey:
Very liberal definitions of “miss out” but yes…
Jeff:
Yeah, I mean, but there are things that kind of spin up there very early.
Casey:
Yeah. But it doesn’t mean you miss them. It just means you won’t get them first.
Jeff:
Yeah, that’s what I kinda decided. It’s not that important and I don’t have to be part of that same community that, like… Say in the Boston bombings, incorrectly identified somebody…
Casey:
Right, yeah.
Jeff:
And because they all thought they were master sleuths, so…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Bad things have happened there.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And so yeah, I do feel a lot better. I do have that weird phantom limb thing where I wake up and then I’m like, I check the email…
Casey:
You feel your Twitter?
Jeff:
And I’m like, “There’s nothing else to look at.”
Casey:
So you know what’s interesting about that is I feel like it’s a pretty good measure of the way your brain… Where our brains have come to. And I haven’t decided exactly what I want to do about this for myself, going forward. We can talk about that in a second. So in the old days… And I don’t mean the old, old days. I mean like the medium old days, so email… Everyone was very concerned that they were spending too much time on email.
Jeff:
Yeah. Now that’s people’s job.
Casey:
Email is not even… Nobody thinks they’re wasting time on email. Email is like bread and butter, right?
Jeff:
That’s my job, yeah. That’s not… Yeah.
Casey:
Twitter and those things are like the wasting time, right? So it’s gone from being, like, 80% job, 20% email and you going, “Wow, the 20% I’m spending on email, I’m really kind of fucking off,” to like, that 20% is now not even considered fucking off because 50% of the time you were spending is now fucking off for real, like totally fucking off, no possible connection to anything you could need to legitimately do for your job, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And so, I was thinking about that the other and was like, “Holy shit. People actually used to think they were wasting time with email. How far we have come since then.” It’s like your brain has even shrunk it down to not even consider this kind of thing.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Yeah, I’m kinda thinking that No Internet Weekdays is the right thing to do.
Jeff:
It’s a good thing.
Casey:
But I can’t really do it that well while Ginger’s in Japan.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So I probably will try to go back to No Internet Weekdays… I had done it for the while and it was good. But then, I was working on the [ Witness ] and u can’t work on the [ Witness ] without the internet because it’s all source…
Jeff:
Right. Checking in [ then run ]…
Casey:
[ SBN ] and all this stuff and… So…
Jeff:
There are kind of tricks you can do. like for example, me just not going to Reddit wasn’t enough…
Casey:
You could [ block Port 80 ] and stuff. You could prevent yourself from having meaningful acts [inaudible 9:24]
Jeff:
Yeah, that kind of thing, right. And that’s what I… Like for Reddit, I just put the thing in the host file to kill it there because if it was, like, not going to it, it wouldn’t really work for me.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
I just… It’s reflexive, I know.
Casey:
Yes. Right. You check Reddit and you’re like, “Wait a minute. I’m not supposed to be doing that.”
Jeff:
Yeah, ‘cos now it’s just like, “Oh, Site Not Found. Alright, okay.”
Casey:
You’ve been acclimate to the Reddit chucking…
Jeff:
Yeah. The other thing I was gonna say about that is in the same way that… I can’t remember if it was Charles or Hook or somebody who said this is that they exercise their control…
Casey:
[inaudible 9:56]
Jeff:
Right, at the supermarket.
Casey:
He says, “I exercise my self-control at the supermarket.”
Jeff:
I just don’t buy the things that are unhealthy for me. I just don’t buy the things that are unhealthy for me…
Casey:
Because I’m gonna eat them when I get home.
Jeff:
And it’s similar to that of, like, if I exercise the control at the host file, then I don’t…
Casey:
Yeah, I agree. Like I said many times, will power is a poor substitute for inaccessibility. Inaccessibility, you cannot possibly check Reddit if you can’t get to Reddit.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Whereas you just trying not to check Reddit can only be as good as that. It can never be better.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So what I wanted to kind of get to here when was talking back, originally introducing the subject and talking about sending you these shitty links is on the other hand, right, this is me kinda sending you those to try and put you in my shoes, let you walk a mile in my moccasins…
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
As the Native Americans have been said to say but probably never did say.
Jeff:
I would never do that.
Casey:
During this time, I wanted to point out 2 links that you sent me. Because what I don’t think the viewers at home is that that trend, although we don’t talk about it anymore, has continued largely unabated. Largely unabated, Jeff. So it’s not like you got tired of sending me these links every day. Every day for our entire lives since we started this podcast, you have sent me something shitty.
Jeff:
No…
Casey:
So here’s what I did. I just want to point them out to you. I’m just gonna show you right now…
Jeff:
What, you’re gonna go to the links on the iPad here?
Casey:
You sent me this. And I want you to describe this to the viewers. You sent me an email…
Jeff:
Oh, dear. Some of these are jokes.
Casey:
You sent me an email and the subject line was “Monkey Pilot”. Could you please describe what you sent me. Here you go. I’m handing it to you.
Jeff:
I said… Oh, wait. This was a while ago. Yeah, okay. So it’s a… Someone took a remote control plane…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And in that way that remote control plane people are insane…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
They, like, wired up the throttle so that when you turn the throttle… Like, when you… Obviously, it’s not controlling anything. You’re just back sitting in the field driving.
Casey:
Right. So there’s no need for it to mechanically move a stick in the cockpit but that’s an extra added piece of detail.
Jeff:
They put a stuffed animal monkey in the cockpit.
Casey:
A sock monkey is how I would describe it.
Jeff:
A sock monkey… And then glued his hands to the throttle and then put a GoPro on the nose of the plane looking back so it just looks like the sock monkey is driving the airplane and it’s just flying it around.
Casey:
And so, how did you come across this, do you remember?
Jeff:
No, I don’t…
Casey:
But you saw it and you were like, “Casey’s got to see this.”
Jeff:
Well, yeah. I sent it… Yeah, definitely… I feel like that was definitely… Did you enjoy that?
Casey:
I don’t really know what to say anymore. I think what I would say is if you stop sending them, it would kind of be like, “Don’t you love me anymore?”
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
It’d be like, you know, “You don’t take me to the opera anymore, Jeff,” right?
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
So it’s not… “I don’t like the opera. It’s a bad art form. But why aren’t you taking me?”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
“Is something wrong?” Right? “Is our relationship on the rocks?”
Jeff:
It may happen naturally because there’s no Reddit. I don’t have my normal [ gap ].
Casey:
Maybe, that could be. But now that I know, you’ve explained in a way…
Jeff:
Yeah. But I feel like I’ll still see it, yeah.
Casey:
So the other one I want to you to explain to them just to… I’m trying to give them a taste of what I get. It’s another link that you sent me…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And the subject line of this was simply “Suave Radish”. It said “Suave Radish”.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Could you describe that there? That’s the picture.
Jeff:
This is definitely the Reddit thing.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So it’s a radish that looks like it’s not… Well, it’s a white radish, so it’s not a little round red one. It’s like a big tuber kind of thing.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And then the radish is split in half at the bottom so it looks like the radish has legs and he’s crossed his legs. It’s also split off a little arm and it looks like he’s leaning. So he has a very “cool” stance (a suave stance, really).
Casey:
Okay. Yes.
Jeff:
I think it was accurate.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And he’s just leaning on a pot and kinda looking at us if they put some eyes on that.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So, yeah. But that’s a good one. That’s great.
Casey:
You like that one, did you? You know that was a gem?
Jeff:
That’s like people that see Jesus in their toast, I saw suaveness in my radish.
Casey:
Okay. Alright. “Suave Radish”. So I just felt like that was a good… I just took a minute (we didn’t take too long, 15 minutes) to catch everyone up on where we were.
Jeff:
Yeah, they’re still good links.
Casey:
So now, we can move on to the meat of the podcast.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
We can move on to some topics…
Jeff:
’Cos we’ve eaten our greens.
Casey:
Now, this one caught me by surprise, Jeff. It caught me by surprise.
Jeff:
Uh-oh.
Casey:
I guess I do not have my pulse on the internet of things. We had an article about the internet of things.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
But as we talked about… I just don’t buy that stuff anymore because I can’t handle it. It just pisses me off too much.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You dive in. You’re like, electric car, voice-activated clock, automated lighting system, you’re just like… Whatever they’ve got…
Jeff:
By the way, I got a firmware patch for the Tesla and now my air conditioner doesn’t work.
Casey:
Exactly. That’s your life.
Jeff:
Right, that’s my life.
Casey:
Something is never… You have everything connected to the internet and it never works.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
Now, this one caught me by surprise ‘cos I did not know… We had a segment when we talked about the internet of things where you were berating the design of the Nest thermostat which has to talk to a web server in order to heat your house, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Which obviously seems like a terrible idea…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
But I have no experience in these things because I don’t have a Nest thermostat and I would never in a million years buy a Nest thermostat. Right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Now, apparently, Nest felt that that was such a good idea that they needed to branch out into smoked detectors.
Jeff:
Yeah, they’re doing smoked detectors now.
Casey:
Which I did not know.
Jeff:
I think they want to do all kinds of bullshit house stuff.
Casey:
I know that they did but I didn’t know that they’d gotten there. I thought they just were still working on trying to get their fucking web server working…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Which apparently it doesn’t, right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So I thought they were still working on the thermostat. I didn’t know they…
Jeff:
The smoke alarm’s a gutsy move for the second one.
Casey:
Mmhmm… Mission critical.
Jeff:
’Cos like, there’s some liability shit…
Casey:
There’s some serious [inaudible 16:23] laboratory shit going on there.
Jeff:
Yeah, right.
Casey:
But…
Jeff:
You know, like, so much of the software that you buy always has those things, like, cannot be used, in medical equipment, hospitals like that…
Casey:
Right. Yes. The EULA…
Jeff:
Yeah. So using it…
Casey:
This one says, “May not be used as a smoke detector,” right? It’s like, “Under no circumstances is a smoke detector. Under no circumstances should this Nest smoke detector to use to definitely detect smoke.”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
“Use it as a secondary, nice-to-have, smoke detector with a pretty web interface.”
Jeff:
I have specifically, I think in this podcast, complained that I would like to find the person who designed the original smoke alarm…
Casey:
Nest. Oh, the original smoke alarm?
Jeff:
The original one.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
And murder them…
Casey:
Really?
Jeff:
Because they’re the ones that, like, in the middle of the night, lose their battery…
Casey:
Yep.
Jeff:
And their user interface…
Casey:
Is to beep…
Jeff:
Is to just beep at a screechingly loud volume…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Every forty-five seconds.
Casey:
Awesome.
Jeff:
And you cannot locate that. So you go stand in the hallway and wait for the beep. It has no detection of it’s dark or it’s light. Like, nope, it just works… So this is one of the things that they wanted to address.
Casey:
My guess is that probably, the way they address this is it sends you an SMS that just says, “Beep,” or something. Like, it sends you an SMS that says, “I’m running out of batteries,” but doesn’t tell you which one it is. So you’re in New York, you get, “I’m running out of batteries.” You’re like, “Is that the one at home in New York? Or is that Seattle?”
Jeff:
Or is that my car?
Casey:
Which one is it?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Alright, anyway… So apparently, Jeff, shockingly… Shockingly, I tell you. They have had to recall the smoke detector.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
It says here, “Nest Labs…” Or I should say had to “halt sales” of the smoke detector.
Jeff:
Oh, okay.
Casey:
“Nest Labs, the home automation company recently acquired by Google for 3.2 billion Dollars…” So ship a non-functioning thermostat, get 3.2 billion Dollars.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
Silicon Valley at its finest, as always.
Jeff:
Uh-huh. Well, ship a non-functional set of goggles…
Casey:
Yeah. VR headset, get 2 billion Dollars.
Jeff:
You get 2, yeah.
Casey:
So maybe… Okay, so basically what you’re saying is…
Jeff:
When we make our TED robot…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
4 billion, easy. Easy!
Casey:
So basically, what you’re telling me is somewhere at Nest headquarters, some other company that actually knew how to build thermostats had built one and they demoed that one to Google. Then Google agreed to buy them. And then they took all the engineers from the old [inaudible 18:45]
Jeff:
That’s the situation. Yeah, probably.
Casey:
Alright, that’s good. Anyway, “Nest Labs said on Thursday that it was halting sales of its smoke and carbon monoxide detector over safety concerns.”
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
“Tony Fadell,” I don’t know if I’m pronouncing that right, “the chief executive of Nest, said in a letter posted on Nest’s website that it would stop selling the product, Nest Protect, until it fixed a problem with a feature that lets people temporarily disable the alarm by waving their hands in front of the detector.” So apparently, you can kinda flail around…
Jeff:
It’s got a little Kinect sensor…
Casey:
I don’t know, I guess…
Jeff:
And then you wave your hand and it’s like…
Casey:
I don’t know.
Jeff:
So what you’re saying… I guess the idea behind that is, like, I make a steak and I start it on fire…
Casey:
I guess.
Jeff:
It goes off, then you wave your hand and it goes, “Okay, everything’s cool.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
But it’s always thinking you’re waving, is that the problem?
Casey:
No, so the problem, I guess, is they were “concerned that the feature could be unintentionally activated, potentially delaying the alarm from going off if there was a fire.” So if it just sees some motion, like for example, bright flickering flames, maybe it thinks like, “Oh, that is…” whatever, I don’t know…
Jeff:
So just as an aside, I think that’s a classic, absolute classic engineer thing to do…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Which is, you make a thing. You’re like, “We want to detect waving.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
They detect the waving…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And you totally forget that this is a fire alarm so you never test it with flames and things…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
You’re just like, “That doesn’t look pretty.”
Casey:
Or the person is going, “Oh, my God. There’s a fire!” Waving their hands around… And the thing doesn’t go off so it doesn’t call the fire department or whatever.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Now, “Nest also said it was immediately deactivating the feature, which it calls Nest Wave,” so the feature had a name…
Jeff:
Right. Well, you’ve got to brand everything.
Casey:
You’ve got to brand everything.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Brand everything. “… which it calls Nest Wave, on smoke detectors already purchased, something it can do remotely.” Shouldn’t bother you at all.
Jeff:
Hold please. Hold please.
Casey:
Should not bother you at all.
Jeff:
Wait, wait, wait. Let’s just… They can turn…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So that’s also connected to the internet?
Casey:
Oh, yeah.
Jeff:
Holy shit. If your fire alarm is on wireless…
Casey:
Yeah, it’s all over.
Jeff:
Okay, that, somebody should go to jail for.
Casey:
Somebody probably should go to jail for.
Jeff:
You should just go to jail. That is not…
Casey:
I’m not sure who should go to jail. And I’m not sure which jail they should go to. But somebody should go to jail. That is true.
Jeff:
So that means, to set those up, you have to type in the wireless password to your fire alarm?
Casey:
I have no idea. But it says, “Mr. Fadell said the smoke and carbon monoxide detection capabilities of the alarms would continue to function.” So it was not having a problem detecting fires. It was having a problem detecting whether or not wanted it to detect fires.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
If I may…
Jeff:
Yeah, okay.
Casey:
Right?
Jeff:
Mmhmm…
Casey:
“We’re enormously sorry for the inconvenience caused by this issue. The team and I are dedicated to ensuring that we can stand behind each Nest product that comes into your home, and your 100%…”
Jeff:
Well, we want to stand behind you so that you take all the flames…
Casey:
All the flames.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
“100% satisfaction and safety are what motivates us. Please know that the entire Nest team and I are focused on fixing this problem and continuing to improve our current products in every way possible.” So according to this article…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
And it seems to belie your experience. “The problems are a rare blemish,” Jeff, a rare blemish…
Jeff:
Oh, my…
Casey:
“For a company that has won widespread praise for the care it has put into its products, which also include its high-end thermostat.”
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You did not have…
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
Such kind things to say about the Nest thermostat, if I recall correctly.
Jeff:
Yeah, I really have a hard time… I mean, we talked about this before of people… When you spend a lot of money on something, there’s a cognitive dissonance thing that happens where you think it’s more awesome than it already is.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
I think that coupled with something that is pleasing to look at, as well.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like a Tesla or like any Apple product or like a Nest, is the ultimate combination of cognitive dissonance enhancing technology…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Of like… This is the thing. Like, the Nest looks gorgeous, right?
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
It has a very high resolution screen.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
The fonts look awesome. It looks awesome.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
When you turn it, it does a little thing. It’s just like somebody in the review… And tech is particularly bad about being good about testing the thing.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Like, SSD’s are so fucking fast, they will melt your face.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
They’ll also melt your data, right?
Casey:
Right. Yeah.
Jeff:
And so then, no [inaudible 23:08] You’re like, “Hold on, that’s the only thing the product’s for is preventing…”
Casey:
And like, David [inaudible 23:12] is like, “The SSD came in the most beautiful case.” You’re like, “You’re fired.”
Jeff:
Yeah. “Here’s the unboxing of the fire alarm…”
Casey:
Of the SSD, yeah… Right…
Jeff:
Like, “Here it is,” right?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And it’s like, “I’d rather see the firing…”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
“Of the thing…”
Casey:
I want to see it go off when there’s a fire.
Jeff:
Yeah, I would like to see the fire, right? Yeah, it’s weird that tech is like that. Maybe there’s other places that are like that, as well. Like, maybe… I don’t know, in high end furniture or…
Casey:
Oh, no. [ They’re stuck ]. It’s called Broadway. Basically, people who buy $80 tickets to fucking “Spiderman: Turn Off the Dark”, right, gets shat upon for 2 hours straight. They don’t come out going, “That was a worst piece of theater I’ve ever seen. They’re like, “It’s fantastic.” Same with “The Lion King”, right. It’s like, they go in and they see these fucking puppets wave around to the fucking songs that barely are able to convey the story even though they already knew the story and they’re like, “It was fantastic. Love it. Number 1 musical.”
Jeff:
That’s actually a thing I didn’t send you specifically because I knew you’d hate it.
Casey:
Oh.
Jeff:
It’s the cast for “The Lion King”…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Flying somewhere…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
They all get on the plane and when they take their seats, they perform one of the songs for “The Lion King” in their seats.
Casey:
Alright, so they Elton John-ed the whole plane, basically.
Jeff:
This was not… This was some weird African song I’d never heard of, a lot of chanting and pounding. And it was not one of the ones I remember from the cartoon, at all.
Casey:
But Elton John wrote the music to “The Lion King”.
Jeff:
Yeah. Oh, the musical, too?
Casey:
As far as I remember…
Jeff:
Oh, okay. I don’t know. I’m just saying it was not one of the songs I remember from the film.
Casey:
Okay. I don’t know because I don’t like “The Lion King”. So maybe there’s a second author…
Jeff:
I thought about you, saying, “I should send this. No I shouldn’t…”
Casey:
Wow. That is…
Jeff:
“Casey doesn’t like ‘The Lion King’.”
Casey:
That is a remarkable amount of restraint.
Jeff:
Uh-huh.
Casey:
If we’re talking… Way back, when we talked about how, like… I think I used the phrase… I was like, “impotent”. Like, it had rendered me unable to have an erection for some days after having seen “The Lion King”. Like, that was how bad it was. I believe that’s what we said. And I don’t remember if that was literally true but it was figuratively true. Like, I didn’t want sex to be a thing after walking out “The Lion King”. I’m like… It, like, made me not want humans to continue procreating. I thought, “We should end this now.” After seeing “The Lion King”, I’m like, “We don’t deserve…”
Jeff:
“The Lion King” turned you into McConaughey from “True Detective”…
Casey:
I haven’t seen that.
Jeff:
Yeah, but you become very…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Yeah. Alright, anyway…
Casey:
Alright. So I guess it…
Jeff:
A whole bunch of stuff… If the Nest is on the internet, what’s it running? Is it running like the Tesla or it’s just a… Like, somebody found four wires under their seat on a Tesla and found it was running Ubuntu 13.
Casey:
right.
Jeff:
So that’s an open network port under there and it’s not an RJ-45 or whatever…
Casey:
Awesome…
Jeff:
But it’s like, you can trivially [ put that one ]…
Casey:
Are you gonna [ hacksaw ] into your Tesla or what?
Jeff:
I am definitely the type of person who jailbreaks his phone…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And is very angry at himself because the phone doesn’t work…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Over and over and over again.
Casey:
So you don’t want to jailbreak…
Jeff:
It just happens over and over and over again…
Casey:
You don’t want to jailbreak your car because…
Jeff:
I’m pretty sure I’ll jailbreak the car…
Casey:
And then, you’ll be mad.
Jeff:
And then, I’ll be… You’ll probably cover this in here, like, “I jailbroke the car…”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Bad news bears…
Casey:
The car is now on the side of the [inaudible 26:42]
Jeff:
It’s not working at all, yeah. The Tesla refuses to come get it.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So…
Jeff:
But the Nest is on the internet, then. So that means you can be hacked.
Casey:
You could basically remotely disable people’s… And then burn them to death. That is… Reading between the lines of this article, that is totally on the table.
Jeff:
So here’s what’s kinda funny. Do you remember those 80’s movies that were, like…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
The super hackers that could do shit like turn on, like…
Casey:
Yes. It’s totally true, isn’t it?
Jeff:
Now, it’s just become true.
Casey:
There was like that one where there’s, like, a mass murderer who gets electrocuted. And now he’s in the electric grid and comes to get you. Now that’s totally possible.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You totally couldn’t do that.
Jeff:
It’s crazy… I remember thinking like, “No… Fucking… They would never put the power stations…”
Casey:
What a stupid view of the future. It’s like, “You have not been to…”
Jeff:
It’s like, 2 years later and we’re there.
Casey:
Yeah, “You have not been to Silicon Valley.”
Jeff:
Oh, boy.
Casey:
So there isn’t very much else here except…
Jeff:
Except apologies.
Casey:
Well, I was gonna say… They were basically just confirming what I hypothesized earlier which is that, they are saying that, yeah, that motion near the Nest would be interpreted as a wave.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So like… Oh, there’s a spinning ceiling fan or something and it’s like, “Oh, so I should always just disable the alarm,” or whatever, right?
Jeff:
Yeah. Think about the future when everything has “natural interfaces”.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And you… As I did burn the steak and cause the fire alarm to go off…
Casey:
Right. Yeah.
Jeff:
You run over and start waving…
Casey:
You didn’t tell the listeners about that…
Jeff:
I think I did.
Casey:
No, I don’t think you did.
Jeff:
Oh, that was on Twitter.
Casey:
I think you told them, obviously, about going to the bathroom while you were cooking bacon…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
But you did not tell them that you went down to get the mail while you were cooking a steak.
Jeff:
Yeah. I put a steak on. And it takes, like, 2 minutes a side or so.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And so, the elevator’s really fast. So I’d just go down to 1…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Get the mail, come back up to 30. Boom. I’m ready to eat.
Casey:
That’s what you thought?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Alright. And what actually happened?
Jeff:
I got in a conversation with the person down at the desk…
Casey:
And you forgot…
Jeff:
And I spaced it…
Casey:
What was the conversation about?
Jeff:
I think it was about the building across from us, he was gonna move into it. And I said… And I came up here and as soon as I got off the elevator, there’s an alarm. And they were testing the alarm…
Casey:
So you were like, “Oh, they must be testing the alarm.”
Jeff:
“They must be testing the alarm. It’s kinda weird to do this so late at night.”
Casey:
What time is it?
Jeff:
Like, 11:30.
Casey:
Oh, for fuck’s sake.
Jeff:
And I opened the door and it was, like, wicked smoky.
Casey:
Building smoke…
Jeff:
So I ran in there…
Casey:
How was the steak?
Jeff:
I scraped all the black stuff off and it was fine.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
It was a little…
Casey:
Overdone?
Jeff:
Overdone for my taste…
Casey:
You want it a little rarer than that?
Jeff:
Mmhmm…
Casey:
Yeah. Turns out, 10 minutes a side on a steak is not the best.
Jeff:
But if I came in and started waving on that and my Kinect turns on because that turns the Kinect on, my auto blinds start triggering, like…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Buttons are good.
Casey:
I think they’re great.
Jeff:
As soon as you have a light switch, just one of these smart home light switches where the light switches are actually hooked to the electricity…
Casey:
It’s a suggestion…
Jeff:
It’s a thing that beams out, that says to another system, “Turn the power off.”
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
You immediately know how bad because, A, you can’t tell that the light switch is… Like, you know…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And you’re like, “The light’s on.” That’s not a big deal, right? Like, it should… But you have lots of times when that being up is an indicator… Like in the middle of the day, you can tell that the lights are on, otherwise, it’s difficult. It’s a dumb thing but the physical state of that is important.
Casey:
Well, I also think people don’t appreciate latency. Like, in the old days, when you play an arcade game, it would be like a button that was fucking wired to a pin. So the CPU saw it, that, electrically. Like, it went down and it was like, “Ah, now when I pull this particular fucking register or something, I see that it is one instead of zero.”
Jeff:
Or, more importantly, it triggers an interrupt that causes code to run exactly in response to that button.
Casey:
At that time, right. And nowadays, it’s like… Yeah, yeah. Put together a USB packet and sends that down the bus and somebody picks it up eventually if it got through the hub. Maybe it didn’t get through the hub, who knows. Goes through there, puts it in a ring buffer, a operating system looks at it, figures out who it might be, where is it coming from…
Jeff:
[inaudible 31:17] the microphone from the…
Casey:
It needs, like, 10 packets for a button press because one of them tell is that the HID is ready to report some buttons or something and the button is named Bob or whatever the fuck. And like, it really does feel shittier, like, the feeling of those direct buttons was so good.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And now, it’s so sloppy. Like, you push it and later on… And of course, the TV’s buffering 12 frames ahead. It’s just like, it’s a disaster… And hard fucking wired shit is great. Like, it feels great. And we’ve totally lost that. And it’s unfortunate because we don’t seem to have really gotten very much in return.
Jeff:
Yeah, yeah, that’s true.
Casey:
Like, I don’t actually plug 70 devices into my fucking computer.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I don’t plug… Yeah…
Jeff:
Making a machine more latent for the operating system for things like, “Oh, hey, I got virtual memory out of it. I got…” There have been things that were wins and there’s been a lot of bad things. But…
Casey:
But virtual memory didn’t add latency.
Jeff:
But wait, no. I’m just saying. You are adding layers and things that can go wrong. And I think there…
Casey:
You’re adding layers but…
Jeff:
I’m just saying we got nothing… We continue to get nothing from the light switches.
Casey:
That’s right, yes.
Jeff:
Or, like, being able to wave at the fire alarm.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It doesn’t give you anything, yeah. So the latency is awesome. I think I Tweeted about this of, like, my smart lights don’t work in the laundry room anymore.
Casey:
They just don’t?
Jeff:
And it’s like, they’ll turn on but they won’t turn off. I’m going, “Oh, fuck.”
Casey:
Okay. How do you get them off, then?
Jeff:
I go turn off the master…
Casey:
Master control, okay…
Jeff:
To the whole place and then turn on everything else again.
Casey:
Awesome.
Jeff:
That said, I finally figured out somewhere along the line, it just has about 30 or 40 seconds of latency.
Casey:
Oh, so if you tap it, it will eventually go off.
Jeff:
If you tap it and don’t tap it again, if you double-tap, nothing happens…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Which is why I never… But if I tap it and walk away, I can get to about over here by the kitchen island and then way over there, poof, it goes off. So I figured that out. I have no idea how that’s possible. Like…
Casey:
It does seem odd.
Jeff:
I don’t know what that little packet of information, where it’s going…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It’s like, obviously somehow going over wireless and then the routing’s bad…
Casey:
Well it could be that some weird programming… Because one of the things that scene lighting systems have is the ability to delay when things come on and stuff…
Jeff:
Oh.
Casey:
So it could be that something got errantly set so it’s receiving the instructions and then thinking, “Oh, I’m supposed to wait 40 seconds and then I turn off… That’s how this whole thing goes.”
Jeff:
Ah, that’s an excellent debugging guess.
Casey:
And maybe it’s like, it got that in its head and you have to go get it out of its head and, you know…
Jeff:
That’s a good point. I between you’re right.
Casey:
Could be.
Jeff:
I have no idea how to plug that thing yet but…
Casey:
So have we covered this topic? Can we move on to the next topic or do you have more to say about that?
Jeff:
No, I think the Nest… It scares me that they can remotely do things and I’m sure that’s in their EULA. But holy shit, I don’t want Nest deciding… I mean, the problem with the Nest thermostat is the same thing of, like, Nest will… Now they’re bought by Google, they’ll probably be around longer. But who knows how long those servers will be good? Like, we’ve seen…
Casey:
Yeah. Yeah, I mean… I guess I don’t really know very much about those sorts of things or how the adoption has been on something like Nest. But I guess the adoption can’t have been that good because if selling zero VR headsets nets you 2 billion Dollars, then they only got 3.2 billion Dollars which means they… I mean, how much did they sell? They must’ve only sold, like, 50 or 100 of those Nests, right?
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
’Cos otherwise, either that or they’re just not worth it, I mean, or something…
Jeff:
Yeah, clearly.
Casey:
I mean, if you just do the comparison… Or like, Whatsapp, for example, right, the messaging app. They’re nowhere near the price of that thing. What was that, like, 12 or 20 billion…
Jeff:
16.
Casey:
16 billion… Something like that. They’re not even in the ballpark of that.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So they must not have that much penetration. Their “user numbers” could not possibly be that high.
Jeff:
That’s very true.
Casey:
Of course, they did make the mistake of actual selling something to somebody, a physical thing. You never want to do that.
Jeff:
Always a bad idea.
Casey:
You never want to do that.
Jeff:
You never want to ship something.
Casey:
You either want to ship a virtual thing like Whatsapp or don’t ship a physical thing like Oculus…
Jeff:
[ You just talk about it ].
Casey:
Those are your wheel houses. Now, I have here on the list, Jeff, and I’m afraid I do not know what it actually means.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Because you are the person who told me to add it.
Jeff:
Uh-oh.
Casey:
You said you wanted to talk about Digital Wallets.
Jeff:
Oh, yeah. So I think the…
Casey:
Now, first of all, for the benefit of listeners at home…
Jeff:
We sort of did that one…
Casey:
The non-tech savvy listeners…
Jeff:
But we sort of did that. Didn’t we do a rant? Oh, wait. I think that was…
Casey:
I’m pretty sure it’s on a deleted podcast.
Jeff:
Yeah, I remember. Alright.
Casey:
I think you have not addressed the subject of Digital Wallets…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
In the way that you intended to.
Jeff:
Yeah. So the reason that came up was iStock Photo. . .
Casey:
iStock Photo? So this is a service which sells you the minority of your choice doing the activity of your choice.
Jeff:
Yes, exactly.
Casey:
It’s like, “I need a…”
Jeff:
It’s just a big [inaudible 36:19]
Casey:
Yes, exactly. Like, “I need some…”
Jeff:
Or percentage of minority…
Casey:
“I need a Pakistani American using a laptop in an office environment.” You’re like, “Okay, we’ve got that. That’s this thing.”
Jeff:
Exactly.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Okay. So one of the things they have there is random flash animations.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And so, I use that making an IGI demo of leaves blowing…
Casey:
Oh, so they’ll actually send, like, the source SWF to you… And you recorded it.
Jeff:
Yeah, they’ll just… An SF and then FLA. And so, like, “Oh, hey, you can just drop that in and blablabla…”
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
Whatever.
Casey:
Seems fair.
Jeff:
In that way that all companies do, the price on one of those things is not, like, $4.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
It is, like, 17 Credits.
Casey:
Oh, okay.
Jeff:
Or something, right…
Casey:
So it’s Mickey bucks… It’s like you’ve gone to the Magic Kingdom…
Jeff:
Exactly.
Casey:
And you want to buy an ice cream but that is not… “Your money is no good here, sir.”
Jeff:
Right. So it’s like, 17 Credits. And you go and you’re like, “How much is a Credit?” And a Credit is, like, a $1.25 or something. So you’re having to do this crazy irrational number divided by a number to figure out, “Alright, that’s $19.”
Casey:
Right. It’s like an unsolved problem in mathematics to figure out exactly how many of these you’re gonna get before you get them.
Jeff:
And it’s very annoying. And you’re like, “Alright, I can do that.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
They take it the extra step in that when you check out, you cannot buy 17 Credits. You can only buy them, like, in increments of 30 or 50 or 100…
Casey:
Okay. So these are like Microsoft Points, they’re like, the amount of points you can…
Jeff:
Exactly, that’s why I said Digital Wallet and not fucking iStock Photo…
Casey:
Right, ‘cos everyone does it.
Jeff:
Which personally made me mad because everybody does this.
Casey:
Right, right. Yes, yes.
Jeff:
And then… Oh, by the way, I did… My Microsoft Points, they did send me 50 cents back recently.
Casey:
Ooh, party time.
Jeff:
They were very excited to say, “We’ve converted you over to the new…” ‘Cos now, they’re not using Microsoft Points, they’re just using money.
Casey:
Do you think they still do gradations, though? Like, you can only buy $17 worth of Dollars…
Jeff:
Right, you can only put so many Dollars…
Casey:
And all the games are, like $15, so you’ll always have $2 leftover or whatever.
Jeff:
And like, for $20, you get $18 worth of buying power. But if you put in $50, you get 49.
Casey:
You get 49. Yeah.
Jeff:
So that’s a better deal for you and me.
Casey:
You should do that, yeah.
Jeff:
Anyway, so yeah, the thing with them was whatever, so you figure this out, you buy it, and you spend $50 instead of the $20 because you had to.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
All annoying. But the awesome thing about iStock Photo is, for no reason that I can tell at all, these credits expire. So like…
Casey:
Is that actually legal?
Jeff:
I don’t know. I actually wanted to look but it was, like, it wasn’t… It was $17 and it was enough to make me angry but not mad enough to go look.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But like, yeah, so they’re like, “You need to spend these ‘cos I got these 2 years ago and after 2 years, your credits expire.”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So it’s just going completely to waste. I don’t even have time to go fucking find some bullshit thing to go download.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And I just wonder, like, what percentage of their credits actually do expire because you’re always left with this crazy $2 or 2 Credits or 3 Credits left over no matter what. It’s never gonna exactly line up unless you’re just crazy lucky.
Casey:
That’s a really good question. I don’t know what laws exactly surround those things and how they work exactly but…
Jeff:
I would assume they’re like a gift card. And I think gift cards can expire.
Casey:
No, they’re state to state. So I don’t think you can have a gift card expire in some states…
Jeff:
In Washington?
Casey:
I don’t know.
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
That’s a good question. That’s a very good question.
Jeff:
Anyway, there’s nothing… And this also comes up with…
Casey:
And to be clear, you can have them expire but you have to return the cash value.
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
So like, I can do something where, like… Well, I’ll give you a prime example. So a prime example is let’s say you go to Groupon. And at Groupon, there’s the thing that’s, like, “Pay $5 and get $10 worth of ice cream at TED Presents Ice Cream for the Future,” or whatever the fuck, right? Some store that sells ice cream. So you pay your $5 and get your $10 voucher. You then fail to use the $10 voucher by the expiration date which is a year from now. They are not allowed to keep the $5.
Jeff:
Oh, I see. They’ve got to give the 5 bucks back.
Casey:
They have to refund you the $5. In fact, Groupon had a big issue with this where they weren’t accounting for that in their accounting… I don’t know the specifics of it but, like, they had a whole thing with the SCC about they failed to correctly… They failed to upfront explain this to investors in their accounting or something… I don’t remember what the fuck it was. The point being…
Jeff:
That’s interesting because they’re probably one of the few companies who have enough outstanding Dollars in that situation.
Casey:
A lot of outstanding Dollars.
Jeff:
And it’s a big overhang on the [ stock. ]
Casey:
Well, all their Dollars are, right? It’s like most of the Dollars for the last 6 months are probably not spent yet. The people haven’t gotten around to it or whatever. I mean, maybe that’s not true but, say, the last month anyway, that’s probably true because people probably don’t buy the Groupon then immediately go use it.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
They buy the Groupon then make plans to use it a couple weeks from now, right?
Jeff:
I have thought about the fact that, like… Yeah, it is kind of a weird arbitrage thing where they’re like, forward project… They’re taking the money now but know they haven’t got the service yet…
Casey:
The service hasn’t been provided, yes.
Jeff:
Which there’s all kinds of rules about.
Casey:
Yes, exactly. So I’m pretty sure that you can’t do something like, “Here’s $50 worth of images for $25,” would now not suddenly be subjected to the same rules. I feel like they have to give you the $25 back if they don’t give you $50 worth of images.
Jeff:
Maybe I’ll email them and just say, just to have the data, say, “What are you talking…” Oh, you know what? I actually did. I never got a response back.
Casey:
I don’t know.
Jeff:
I actually just said, “This is…” I actually did say, “This is bullshit.” I probably should’ve said it like, “I don’t understand, I’m [inaudible 42:34] that song which you probably have read about.
Casey:
Yeah, so we should look into that. That’s an interesting question. But I’m just giving you a datapoint [ that means ]… It’s not anything goes, there are some laws…
Jeff:
I guess the thing that I was thinking about in terms of the Digital Wallet as a bigger concept is I don’t remember a single time that the Digital Wallet ever did anything for me, period, in any way. So it seems like it solely exists to either have people forget about the money that they have there or for them to have weird things like expiration.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
There’s nothing consumer facing except maybe, oh, your credit card or you don’t have to give your credit card every time.
Casey:
So there is a consumer facing thing that is actually not… It shouldn’t be but it is which is that if you are going to assume that the fixed price of the things on a service is what they actually take home at the end of the day…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Then having you buy shit in $15 chunks used to avoid the micro-transaction penalty…
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
That credit cards would… That was one of the reasons for doing them originally was, like…Okay, if we actually want to sell shit for 99 cents, right, we will be paying half of the money to the credit card company. So if we fix the amount that we want to take home, we will actually charge a $1.50 for something we would’ve been charging 99 cents for…
Jeff:
I see…
Casey:
Because the fucking people took 50 cents of it.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So what they used to do those for is to enable micro-transactions because credit card companies were fucking them in the ass.
Jeff:
Right. Somewhere along the line, that changed.
Casey:
Somewhere along the line, that changed. And so now, I think mostly Digital Wallets are pure fucking you by trying to introduce… Trying to play upon your inability to manage these things optimally or to insert ways that it’s impossible for you to manage them correctly so that they get more money out of you, long term. It’s the only reason for them now.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
But originally, there was an actual reason and that reason was credit card companies were never set up to deal with 99 cent transactions, [ not on their radars has that ever even ] happened…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So the way that they had structured their fee schedule made it pretty expensive to use them.
Jeff:
Yeah, I’d read an article about that and I don’t know what fixed but they were saying that it was iTunes that finally made them get their shit together.
Casey:
There was like, “We need to fix this shit.”
Jeff:
Yeah, just ‘cos they had so many short $99 charges that we had to fix it.
Casey:
99 cent charges.
Jeff:
Yeah, sorry.
Casey:
Yeah. So I think that was mostly the only time you could’ve pointed and gone, “This is the thing that actually needs to occur.” Other than that, I can’t see any reason why.
Jeff:
Well, the question is, with your Nest Digital Wallet, can you access it from your thermostat? Can you see how many credits you have left, like, how long they’ll continue to heat your house, before they’re like, “I’m sorry. You need to renew your…”
Casey:
I feel like before they heat your house for the next 2 years, I think you should have to do a credit check, obviously right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I mean, in some sense, the other thing is I don’t really want… I mean, 8 months, yeah, 9 months, maybe the same thermostat’s okay. But at some point, I’m gonna want a new thermostat.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Right, okay… I might want a curved thermostat, for example, instead of these flat thermostats…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I want a red thermostat because just a regular old black or white thermostat, how exciting is that? Not that exciting.
Jeff:
Well, so it’s important then to really look at the fine print so you know what kind of policy they have of, like, do you have to keep the Nest service for 12 months before you can get a new one.
Casey:
Right. Yes.
Jeff:
Otherwise, you might have to pay the full price for that.
Casey:
Yeah, which I don’t want to do that. So here’s the other thing is a lot of people walking by in my Nest, they might brush up against it or whatever, my Nest gets dirty. So I would like to see Nest accessories. Can I get a cover? Can I get, like, sort of like a silicone… One of those hard but still a little pliable covers for the Nest that I can put in there?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
But it still has…
Jeff:
Or just some bling. Sometimes you want a little shiny Nest, too.
Casey:
Here’s the thing, though. I want to make sure it’s got a hole for the headphone jack because if I want to listen to my Nest, if I want to listen to what the Nest is saying about my temperature, I’ve got to be able to do that without taking the cover off ‘cos that’d be bullshit right there.
Jeff:
Well, I think the other thing is with the Nest fire alarm, sometimes you want to listen to the fire warnings yourself, right?
Casey:
That’s true.
Jeff:
And you don’t want to disturb your partner.
Casey:
That’s right.
Jeff:
So you want to be able to plug the headphones in, lay down comfortably…
Casey:
Exactly.
Jeff:
And just listen and it will very quietly say, “Fire. Fire.”
Casey:
To be clear, if it is gonna say, “Fire,” I want to know that at least one, if not 2, washed up rappers has personally approved the speaker technology in my thermostat.
Jeff:
Right, sure.
Casey:
Because I don’t want to listen to some crispy, tinny version of the thing saying, “Fire.” Right?
Jeff:
I think it’s absurd not to buy the Nest Beats.
Casey:
Nest Beats.
Jeff:
If you don’t get the Nest Beats…
Casey:
The Nest Beats…
Jeff:
Thermostat.
Casey:
Is where it’s at, absolutely.
Jeff:
And I think you’re just shorting yourself because the extra speaker technology… They use, like, wave front technology so that it kinda comes through…
Casey:
I want a surround fire alarm…
Jeff:
So that a very small speaker can give you a powerful feeling.
Casey:
Right. Yeah. It needs to use the wall. It needs to work off the wall, right?
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
Use that wall, turn that wall into a speaker for me so that I can hear the fire alarm, full fidelity.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
“What’s the frequency response in this thing?” That’s the question you want it to answer.
Jeff:
I want to feel like Dr. Dre’s in my wall.
Casey:
Dr. Dre’s in my wall and he thinks the roof is on fire, literally, and would like you to know. He would like you to evacuate.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Yes, he would like you to evacuate the premises.
Jeff:
As clearly as possible but also with some style.
Casey:
Here’s a question, though. What I will say is all these things we’re talking about here should not be compatible with the new version of it. Like, when the new Nest comes out, the old case should absolutely not fit on to that, right? And the old headphones should not plug into that. Like, none of those things…
Jeff:
Well, clearly…
Casey:
Should be happening.
Jeff:
If you get a new Nest, you have to get a new house.
Casey:
A new house for it, yeah.
Jeff:
It’s like, the connector’s not gonna be the same.
Casey:
Or at least a new wall.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You could get a wall adaptor but it’s a little janky. You really want a whole house that’s designed to support the Nest properly.
Jeff:
I want to get the thing where you’re like… They’re really focusing on the non-super customer interfacing products, in general.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You can wave at the thermostat…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
I mean, I’m sorry. You can wave at the fire alarm.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You can rotate the thermostat.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
I want them to be in things like my disposal.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
I want to be able to…
Casey:
That’s a good point.
Jeff:
So like, when I’m clogged, it talks.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
I want…
Casey:
Well, actually…
Jeff:
I also think it will project a nice light up on to the ceiling from out of the sink, right…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
When it’s clear… I would like them to be in things like my sink because… I mean, my faucets because nothing says Nest to me as, like, I want to turn on my shower and have the water come out in a nice musical pattern.
Casey:
Right. Or it might come… It might not come out of the web service, then.
Jeff:
Well, it might not come out of the web service. You can’t be 100% reliable here. Also, you know, the wicked signal’s way bad in the bathroom.
Casey:
Well, for the Nest Crush, the thing is I would like it to… On my iPad, I want to see what I have disposed of. Like, I want to see what my waste output is or a lot of my nutrients going down the drain, Jeff…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You know, how am I doing on maximally utilizing the vegetables. Have I peeled these too much?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Could it suggest things for me to do with the things instead of sending them down to the sewer like a Republican?
Jeff:
Well they could analyze all of it and also tell you, like, “It looks like you have a little bit too much sugar in your diet…”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
“Based on what you’re throwing away here, maybe you should pump it up this way.”
Casey:
Yeah, that’s a good point.
Jeff:
Yeah. I think…
Casey:
What about the trash? What about the trash can?
Jeff:
I think they could do that, too, but really what you want to get into is the Nest Toilet…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Because then, there’s a huge amount of data to be gathered there.
Casey:
Right, there’s tons of data.
Jeff:
Lots of analysis going on…
Casey:
Tons of data.
Jeff:
All the time…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
When that can’t connect to the wireless, I’m gonna be honest with you, it’s a little bit of a disaster.
Casey:
That’s a problem. That’s a bit stinky.
Jeff:
We’re working on it.
Casey:
Hopefully the guests aren’t coming over at that particular time.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
The Nest Floater — New Toilet Technology.
Jeff:
But fortunately, what we’re gonna fix that…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Is we’ve seen the wireless, huge problem.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
The Nest Wireless router has no settings…
Casey:
You know 2,000 Flushes, the product?
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
That’s, like, what you’ll get out of the Nest before… That’d be it. Like after that… You get 2,000 flushes and then the shit ain’t running anymore.
Jeff:
Well, I think it’ll run. It’s just… Really, the problem is just your service contract’s done. You have to renew because after 2,000 flushes, you can choose for 19 bucks to get another 1,000 flushes…
Casey:
Right. When you call the plumber… There’s not really a plumber so much anymore as a technician. Like, it’s IT plumbing. And you’re like, “So like, I’ve got all this shit in my toilet and it ain’t going down.” And they’re just basically like…
Jeff:
“Have you tried turning it on and off?”
Casey:
“What model toilet do you have?” And they’re like, “No, we don’t support that toilet anymore. We don’t support that toilet anymore. That’s ancient. That’s ancient toilet.”
Jeff:
Yeah, that’s totally uncool.
Casey:
It’s hilarious to me but… You know, we’re making fun of it but that’s literally the case now. Like, if you think about how software companies treat a lot of these things, that is roughly the case. It’s like, you don’t get to use something you buy for life.
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
You get to use it for, like, 6 months.
Jeff:
While we say you do, yeah.
Casey:
After that, it just doesn’t work anymore and you’re just like, “Well, we don’t care.”
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
“Buy the new version”.
Jeff:
No, I feel like things… Like, the subscription model for software feels bad…
Casey:
Is there gonna be DRM on the toilet? Will the toilet have to authenticate before flushing?
Jeff:
No, I think it’ll be more like this. It’ll be like, you have to buy the toilet paper from Nest for that toilet and it won’t flush other toilet paper brands.
Casey:
It’s a printer model. Oh, that’s brilliant.
Jeff:
Yeah, that’s what I would do if I was really… If you want to do…
Casey:
That is brilliant.
Jeff:
So when you’re in desperate times…
Casey:
Wow…
Jeff:
You’re going, “Oh, no. I’m out of Nest paper.”
Casey:
“I’m out of Nest brand toilet paper.”
Jeff:
Right. But they’ll tell you, like…
Casey:
The Nest Roll. It’ll be called a roll.
Jeff:
We do this because it’s more ecological.
Casey:
Much more eco-friendly.
Jeff:
Ours is balanced, right?
Casey:
Absolutely, no question.
Jeff:
And there’s no chance of clogging.
Casey:
No chance.
Jeff:
It’s like we have a special thing that is integrated to there.
Casey:
Exactly.
Jeff:
Yeah. I mean, it’s a joke but all of this is gonna happen.
Casey:
Also, I feel like…
Jeff:
A subscription model is gonna happen to physical things ‘cos it’s already starting to happen.
Casey:
Right. Oh, absolutely, no question.
Jeff:
And it happened with phones. And that was, like, the first thing of, like, “Can we fuck people this hard?” And like, “Oh, yeah. They enjoy being fucked.”
Casey:
The Nest Roll will also, I feel, have inspirational sayings on it or something…
Jeff:
Oh, good call.
Casey:
Actually, wait a minute. The Nest Roll will just be LCD paper. It’ll be showing ads or something. Like, you’ll go to wipe your assessment and it’ll be like, “Hemorrhoids acting up again? Try Preparation H, new medicated,” whatever the fuck, right?
Jeff:
Well, there’s a little update on the advertising front that we’re talking about at dinner the other night of the Hulu thing that we briefly spoke about…
Casey:
We did not.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Because that did not air.
Jeff:
God damn it
Casey:
You’ll have to talk about that.
Jeff:
Alright, we’ll talk about the Hulu thing…
Casey:
Do want me to just mention it now? Do want me to just mention it now or leave it later?
Jeff:
No, let’s save that one. There’s a whole bunch of them…
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
But I feel like we’re joking but I think… I feel like those are all places that Nest wants to go…
Casey:
Oh, yeah, no question.
Jeff:
And I think that as this kind of filters down…
Casey:
Right, or even if Nest doesn’t, like… So let’s say, for some reason, Nest didn’t want to go there, they’re owned by Google now.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Google’s business model is already the business model you are talking about. So you will either pay a subscription, a la android, for your whatever it is or you’ll have ads all over it.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So, yeah, maybe you don’t have to buy the toilet paper but the toilet paper is printed with ads.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Which, as I’m saying it, I’m thinking there’s at least a 50-50 chance that will be true.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I’m thinking that my joke is probably going to be true.
Jeff:
The toilet paper thing seems possible.
Casey:
Ads on toilet paper from Google for the Nest toilet is 100% on the table.
Jeff:
Also, the toilet seems plausible to me…
Casey:
It does seem plausible.
Jeff:
Because those things are crazy expensive now and they have a lot of tech in them.
Casey:
Yes. Toto toilets have shown how much you can do there.
Jeff:
Yeah. So, like, that… I’m sure they’re just going, “Well, this is gonna be great.”
Casey:
Wow. The world…
Jeff:
We’re in for some awesomeness.
Casey:
Sometimes I’m glad I’m not young. Like a lot of people are like, “I wish I was young again.” And to some degree, it would be nice to be young again. But on the other hand, we lived through the best tech time. I am totally comfortable saying I got the best of it. I lived through the Golden Age of technology, when people were still working on things in earnest and cared about what they made. I got to see the basically beginning and end of that era. And so now, people who are born today, they just are born to a world of people trying to take your money. They aren’t born into a world full of technological possibility. They are born to a world of capitalist cynism, right?
Jeff:
And also rebooting your toilet to make the shit go down.
Casey:
Rebooting your toilet, exactly. You go, “Oh…”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And it’d be very commonplace just like weird plungers are for shitty toilets. It’s like, “No, no. Unplug it. Plug it back in.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
“That all working?”
Casey:
“You should let it sit for 30 seconds.”
Jeff:
“Oh, you got a virus in it. Oh, mom. Why were you on those recipe sites?”
Casey:
Yeah. No, it’s, “Why did you heat that asparagus?” Right? It’s like the things you eat end up causing the toilet [inaudible 55:41]
Jeff:
No, here’s the problem. If the toilet is auto-detecting what you ate and then tailoring the ads…
Casey:
Which I feel like it is…
Jeff:
I feel like that’s gonna happen.
Casey:
I feel like it is.
Jeff:
Then what it’s gonna be is something…
Casey:
“Need more fiber in your diet?” Yeah.
Jeff:
That you eat is going to trigger a particular ad that has malware. Like, so instead of Anna Kournikova virus…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
It’ll be the strawberry shake diet…
Casey:
Right, right.
Jeff:
You’re like, “Oh, you ate the diet which goes inside…”
Casey:
“Ultra Slimfast? Bad idea?”
Jeff:
Oh, yeah. No, we know that.
Casey:
Ultra Slimfast was hit by anonymous. You’re in for [inaudible 56:17]
Jeff:
Yeah, but here’s the thing. If you install Nest Defender on your toilet, it will run in the background…
Casey:
No, it’s Nest Flush Defender. It’s the name of the thing and then its…
Jeff:
Then Defender, right, ‘cos it’ll need… ’Cos you have to pay for the Defender to defend…
Casey:
Flush Defender, right…
Jeff:
’Cos the whole point of the subscription is you need to get updated virus scan.
Casey:
No, no, no. Nest Flush Defender is free. It’s Nest Flush Defender Pro, which is $15.99 to upgrade it, right, Jeff?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And that comes with a year’s subscription built in.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And after that, you’ve got to pay another $10 if you want an additional year.
Jeff:
This is absolutely ridiculous and absolutely plausible.
Casey:
Yeah, one out of every 5 things we just said will be true in 10 years and we will be sad mother fuckers.
Jeff:
Right. Yeah. Plunging will be the least [inaudible 57:03]
Casey:
Alright, everyone.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
I hope that all of you out there just don’t fucking buy any of this shit. But if you do, I wish you the best of luck and I hope that these things come through slower around later.
Jeff:
I don’t think they’re gonna have much of a choice.
Casey:
Yeah, that might be true. They’re gonna have to have a toilet and there ain’t gonna be any traditional toilets left so…
Jeff:
No, no, no. And then that… Yep, you’re gonna have to…
Casey:
Go back to the outhouse.
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
Alright, everyone.
Jeff:
It doesn’t have to be rebooted. Alright, everybody, have a great week.
Casey:
Thanks for tuning in.
Jeff:
You’re very sad now because it’s become real to you.
Casey:
It’s true. It’s gonna be true. One of the things we said will be true. I don’t know which one but one of those very depressing things…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
That we said in jest will turn out to not be so jesty.
Jeff:
Yeah. If you have other topics for us to cover, send us an email…
Casey:
Yes. What’s your favorite internet-enabled appliance that shat the bed recently?
Jeff:
Right, if any Nest jests you have for us to cover.
Casey:
Write them in to Podcast@JeffAndCaseyShow.com.
Jeff:
That’s right.
Casey:
And we will take care of it for you.
Jeff:
We will look into it for you.
Casey:
We will flush id down the Nest toilet for you.
Jeff:
That’s right. Hey, thanks, everybody.
Casey:
Thanks for tuning in.
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casey muratori
the jeff and casey show - season 4 - episode 13
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