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The Technician
No Imperfections Noted
The Jeff and Casey Show
Jeff and Casey Time
Casey Muratori
Seattle, WA
The Internet of Things
"They would love to have some synergy between the thermostat and the bomb department. That's fantastic news for the 3rd quarter."
Original air date: March 17th, 2014
Topics. Body odor defense mechanism. Suave for Men. The Internet of Things. SmartTV. Moshi. Tesla. Automatic blinds. Lighting systems. Firmware updates. Andy Rooney. High-end dishwashers. The Ford F150. Curved cell phones. Rinse aid. The Nest. Westinghouse. Honeywell. NSA data collection. Wireless networking. 1% problems. Hearing a pin drop. Plug’n’play. Sound card drivers. Printer ink. Windows minimum battery percentage. Unejectable media.
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Transcript
Jeff:
Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Jeff & Casey Show.
Casey:
Hello, and welcome to the Jeff & Casey Show. So I have something, 2 things, I want to get out of the way before we get to the real meat of the topic.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I think one of the things about going back with an audio podcast is that… One of the things about our audio podcasts is that we never really got to the topic for [ a while ]. It’s sort of…
Jeff:
There was no pressure.
Casey:
You know how they say… I’ve heard people say it. I don’t know if there’s any truth to this whatsoever but I’ve heard people say that, like, body odor is a defense mechanism for some people. Have you ever heard this said?
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
They say something like body odor is a defense mechanism. They don’t want to interact with people. And it’s psychology bullshit, like I’m sure no one’s every done any testing but you hear that said.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
So this business at the beginning of the podcast is kind of the body odor. It’s making sure…
Jeff:
No, it’s not.
Casey:
That people who really want to get to the meat of the Jeff & Casey show are gonna get into it. You can't just…
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
You won’t immediately be grabbed by the topic, right?
Jeff:
That’s a terrible analogy.
Casey:
Alright. So ignore it for now.
Jeff:
Alright. I’ll ignore it forever.
Casey:
Something that I wanted to mention before we get to the topic is…
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
When I stay over at your house, when I am visiting here and I sleep in the guest bedroom or wherever…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Showering here makes me smell more like a dude than I ever smell in my life.
Jeff:
I don’t understand. How come?
Casey:
Because whatever is in there… Whatever…
Jeff:
The shampoo?
Casey:
Yes. It’s like…
Jeff:
You don’t like the shampoo?
Casey:
It’s not that I don’t like it. I’m like, I put it on and I’m, like, “I am… Dude…” I’m like, “I am ready for the football locker room after…” It’s called Suave for Men.
Jeff:
It’s peppermint.
Casey:
It is not peppermint.
Jeff:
It’s peppermint.
Casey:
It is like old musk. It is like Old Spice or something. It’s got this thing.
Jeff:
No. I think it’s supposed be peppermint.
Casey:
You can smell it on my hands right now as we’re podcasting, actually.
Jeff:
No, I don’t know what that action is. That is not where you should go.
Casey:
It is very unusual. So I’m just saying that right now, if podcast listeners are sensing an increased masculinity from me right now, if they are feeling…
Jeff:
Suave?
Casey:
Testosterone from this side of the microphone, it is because I showered in Jeff’s guest bedroom and Suave for Men has made me smell and act like a dude, as far as I can tell.
Jeff:
Oh, okay. Alright. I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Casey:
I do not love it.
Jeff:
You don’t like it?
Casey:
No, I don’t like smelling like a dude. Dudes smell fucking stupid.
Jeff:
I think it’s supposed to be peppermint.
Casey:
It’s not peppermint.
Jeff:
I’m almost positive it’s peppermint because I had a whole shampoo situation.
Casey:
Do you want to go check what it is?
Jeff:
No, the situation is I just bought…
Casey:
It doesn’t matter. The point being…
Jeff:
I got too many. And so that went in the guest bath…
Casey:
I smell like an old man right now and that’s fine, like, a leathery old sofa dude.
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
Like, “Let’s go to the club.”
Jeff:
Stop it.
Casey:
So the topic for today was sent to us be none other than podcast stalwart, Wanchon…
Jeff:
Okay, yes.
Casey:
He asks us for our input (our commentary, if you will) on everyone’s favorite topic of late, the internet of things.
Jeff:
Oh, the internet of things.
Casey:
The internet of things because people, Jeff, no longer just want things. They want things that are on the internet.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
This is what we’re told, anyway.
Jeff:
So the internet of things is the whole thing of, like, “Everything needs to have an RFID built into it, right?
Casey:
And that’s it’s connected. So it’s like your refrigerator should have a microcontroller in it, connected to the internet, for some reason, right?
Jeff:
Okay. I thought…
Casey:
Your oven, your heating system… Like, your nest…
Jeff:
I don’t know exactly what the internet of things… I always that the internet of things was, like, we have decided to now, in this economy called inventory management… I didn’t think it was… I thought the internet of things was way more about…
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
Where shits at, not communication because I thought it was all Mirfield, like, not really bi-directional communication.
Casey:
So that is probably part of the internet of things.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Utility, if there is any, because you imagine that a refrigerator that was connected to the internet wouldn’t be able to do very much if he didn’t know what was inside of it, right? So an RFID on every fucking product that told the refrigerator what was in it, for example, would make a lot more sense than just a refrigerator that’s on the internet. However, internet of thing is more concrete. You have it today. The nest which you bought for your mom…
Jeff:
Huge disaster.
Casey:
Hold on. Cue these up. That is the internet of things. It is having things that used to not be on the internet come on the internet. Your television, smart TV…
Jeff:
Yep, huge disaster.
Casey:
Also a huge disaster.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
So you can imagine going… Your lighting system, [inaudible 4:52]
Jeff:
Huge disaster.
Casey:
I just sit, right?
Jeff:
Huge disaster. This is… All my life is a sense of disaster.
Casey:
Yes, that is the internet of things. The internet of things means appliances…
Jeff:
Jeff gets fucked…
Casey:
Yes, appliances that used to purchase but did not connect to the internet and did not have software of any significant [inaudible 5:07] running on them will now be like, you have apps for your lighting system. That is the internet of things.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
And it’s all plugged into the network and it’s all fucked up. That is the internet of things.
Jeff:
So here’s my internet of things day, alright…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
First of, I wake up to Moshi going off at the wrong goddamn time.
Casey:
It woke me up today. Well, it didn’t wake me up. I was trying to talk to Ginger on the computer and I said something. It was like, “Command, please.”
Jeff:
Yeah. Oh, you better give her a command or then she starts telling you what the possible commands are…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And that takes 5 fucking minutes.
Casey:
Yes, it does.
Jeff:
You can’t interrupt her.
Casey:
No, you can’t. Continue.
Jeff:
So that’s my wakeup.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Then I go over and I’m like, “Oh, it looks like a sunny day. Let’s open the blinds. The blinds will go, like… And then jam halfway up. If these were fucking goddamn blinds I’d pull them open.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
I’m like, “Oh, that sucks. Alright…”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So then, I go into the kitchen and I hear a beeping…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And the goddamn Water Cop that is the automated system that detects when something leaking and turns the water off in my apartment so that there’s no flood…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Is fucked because it’s been going off. It went off for [ Blow ], like, 3 times when he was staying here last time.
Casey:
What was it doing?
Jeff:
It just goes, “Oh, shit,” and then turns all the water off. So I have no water. So I call them. They fix the water. They come back up and do a reset or something…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I get in the shower. I soap up with my Suave…
Casey:
Your Suave for men.
Jeff:
And then, all of a sudden… And it turns off, full soap, when the Water Cop redeploys. This is the worst cop ever.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I go downstairs…
Casey:
It’s more like a water SWAT team. It doesn’t care if you’re in the shower…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It busts in there and turns that shit off.
Jeff:
Yeah. I go downstairs to my car which, overnight, decided to install a firmware update and did not re--… So it was charging and I needed it to charge. It installed this firmware update which interrupts the charging and doesn’t restart the charge after it’s installed.
Casey:
Of course, it doesn’t.
Jeff:
So, I think it automatically installs at 1 AM.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So I got from 8 to 1 is all I got.
Casey:
Right. Right.
Jeff:
And it’s like, “No, shit. Fuck it.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So now…
Casey:
No energy…
Jeff:
Which for me, you have to understand, I’m always running uphill electrically. Right? So if I lose a day…
Casey:
You’re fine.
Jeff:
That’s the boulder that I’m pushing up a hill.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
I stopped the momentum. I have to start it up again.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
So then, I’m fucked there. And this is just… So the funny thing about this… And Dawn always gets upset or what Dawn always remarks on is I have all this shit. Like, I keep buying all this shit because I think it’s gonna work now.
Casey:
Well, we’ve talked about this before, like, I don’t understand why you have that fucking alarm clock. And it’s not just alarm clock. You bought another one for your other place.
Jeff:
Yeah. Well, I have a real important thing of, like, consistency…
Casey:
Sameness… You do, everything has to be the same. Like, I look at your workstation in two places and it’s, like, identical.
Jeff:
Oh, yeah.
Casey:
Same mouse pad, even, between here and New York, which is crazy. But okay, alright.
Jeff:
So it is frustrating but it’s identical frustrating.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
In New York, they’re installing the new blinds system that is going in my New York place…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
It’s controlled by the iPad. Who the fucks knows what’s going to happen.
Casey:
That’s… You’re never going to see… I hope you didn’t have a good view because you’re never gonna see it again, yeah.
Jeff:
That’s never opening.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
No… So, I keep believing in the promise, I guess, of the internet of things.
Casey:
Yes. You’re the internal optimist.
Jeff:
And the internet of things has fucked me so hard and for so long. And I’m still believing that something good is… And it never is. I will say that there are things like… Anything that I own in my house that has software in it sucks.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Pretty much 100%.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Our washing machine, my fridge is a little older sub-zero one.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
So it’s bad, like, sometimes the fucking alarm goes off on there, I have no idea why.
Casey:
Alarm?
Jeff:
Yeah, it has an alarm.
Casey:
Oh, for if you leave the door open or something?
Jeff:
No, it says “Service”. I don’t know what it means.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Then it goes away. It stops beeping.
Casey:
So it didn’t really want something that badly.
Jeff:
That doesn’t have a lot of software but it still sucks.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But I don’t think I have a…
Casey:
You know what, this [ task ] cam recorder so far…
Jeff:
So far [inaudible 9:46]
Casey:
The thing with software that has sucked the least in the whole apartment.
Jeff:
Yeah. I will say the interface on this has some serious problems.
Casey:
Yes, but that’s different. It’s not the same. Like, hard to use is different from…
Jeff:
Usable…
Casey:
Actively doesn’t work.
Jeff:
Well, yeah.
Casey:
A lot of the stuff just doesn’t work.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
That’s the thing about modern software that’s so interesting is it actually just doesn’t work like, actively incapable of performing its primary function which is kind of a new thing ‘cos in the old days, I feel like software was very janky still ’cos it couldn’t be that good. So the interfaces were always bad and all that stuff. But I feel like I, more often, got things into a working state than I do now. I rarely get things into a working state today.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s very unlikely that anything I have that has software will be working properly for whatever its stated purpose was.
Jeff:
Well, for me, I absolutely live in a perpetual state of “something is fucked up”.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
All the time.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Something… And it’s become part of my persona, in some way. It’s just like I don’t even… I mean, I used to get rage-y about this…
Casey:
You’ve internalized this.
Jeff:
Now it’s just like Andy Rooney. It’s like, “Well, what do you know, the blinds don’t go up anymore. They just stop halfway.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And then the next day, they go up all the way. That doesn’t even… Like, as an engineer, the fact that it didn’t work yesterday and it worked today would’ve been fascinating to me, like, what the… Now, I’m just like, “Well, I don’t know. I’m just glad they’re up today.” I’m focusing on the positives in my life now and being, like, grumpy Andy Rooney about all the nonsense that I have. Yeah.
Casey:
Right. Yeah. I think… So I don’t know if I can parcel out all the reasons why the internet of things is a bad idea. But it does all get down to the basic problem of, like, the software engineering is just not good enough. It’s not good enough.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s that simple. We don’t have good enough software to put software into these things because not only will the software be broken but it will also be insecure. So people will be hacking your light system. They’ll be running viruses in your fridge. It’s like, salmonella will be the least of your virus or bacteria worries in your refrigerator compared to, you know… We don’t have computer bacteria.
Jeff:
We just have…
Casey:
I guess that’s because the technical distinction there is that a virus isn’t really living so it has to be… It’s only activated when it’s in a host organism where the bacteria is something that actually has its own metabolic cycle separate from its host.
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
Right? So I assume that since we don’t have that… Like, you could imagine that being a thing eventually, maybe. I don’t know.
Jeff:
I don’t know.
Casey:
Anyway, it doesn’t matter… Getting off topic, too far off topic, we’re always off topic but too far off topic. So I think that the software side of things, I think there is an actual market force problem there, as well, because I see this stuff a lot now where you look at what is the selling point for this new device X. And the selling point for the new device X is that now your cellphone can come in multiple colors, right.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Right? Once that is where you’re at, it’s over because you’re no longer talking about a buying cycle, a capitalist cycle that is driving you towards working because no one cares what the phone does.
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
They care if the phone is red or whatever.
Jeff:
Wait, are you saying that’s because they already have a phone and the only way to get a new one is to give them a different color? Or are you saying…
Casey:
No, I’m saying the people who are buying the shit are idiots.
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
When idiots are buying things and have no concept of what should be working or how fast it should be or any of that shit and you’re just like, “I got this pretty pink phone,” or whatever the fuck… I don’t know if you’d get a pink phone but a red phone… That is the problem.
Jeff:
You’re saying as soon as you buy something for… As soon as your decision making point for the thing that you’re buying is not what that thing does but…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
A sundry weird things…
Casey:
And I have seen this in everything.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
So for example, my dishwasher which was preinstalled in the place…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s the worst dishwasher I have had by an amazingly significant margin. It is also the most expensive by a significant margin. And the reason I know, the reason they installed this is it’s a relatively high end condo…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And they install high end brands. And what high end brands are in the appliance world is pretty.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
That’s it.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
They don’t work for shit…
Jeff:
They’re also not even pretty…
Casey:
They won’t wash your clothes. They won’t wash your dishes. They won’t keep your food cold or warm, whichever it’s supposed to do. They are terrible, actively. But it’s because that’s not who’s buying them. The people who are buying them are, like, “What looks nice in my kitchen? And what have I been told is the high end thing, I should have,” right?
Jeff:
Yeah. That, I think, is a big deal.
Casey:
They’re like [ cache ], it’s like, “Oh, this sexy new phone or whatever, it has some cache so I need to have this or whatever.” It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t fucking work, right. And you would way rather have iOS 4 than iOS 7 or something, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
That doesn’t matter. You still go buy the new red phone or whatever it is because now you’ve got whatever it is. So I feel like you definitely… Once you break out of a market for technophiles and you end up in a market for just pure straightforward consumers who don’t necessarily know what they’re buying, the game’s over. It’s not even wrong for those companies because they’re not gonna make more money by selling you a more reliable product.
Jeff:
Yeah. Well, I would say I’m always surprised at things that you… Like, you can’t buy… Like, you would think that nowadays there’s so many products, say in phones, where there are literally hundreds and hundreds of phones…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
You can’t buy a small phone. That’s not a thing because they’re all…
Casey:
As big as you can…
Jeff:
The smallest phone is larger than my first iPhone, by default.
Casey:
But you’ll be able to get a curved phone. You know why? Because no one’s had a curved phone before.
Jeff:
Yeah. So there is that weird…
Casey:
Eventually, you won’t be able to buy a flat phone. It will be, like, all curved phones because… Who knows…
Jeff:
Yeah. I don’t know. It is very funny. When we moved into the new place in New York, as we replaced all the appliances ‘cos they’re older… But I’m not going to now. They’re way better than the one I had here so…
Casey:
Yeah, yeah.
Jeff:
They’re all about 10 years old and I think they’re right before… There’s still some software in all of them which is a little janky. The interface is terrible these days, right, ‘cos the older ones, you get the weird things where you’re like, “Hey, to turn it on, you rotate the dial at the start and then you rotate to the time and then it just starts.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You’re like, “Okay, that’s really weird. The dryer works completely differently…”
Casey:
Yeah, what if it dries clothes, right? All it has to do is dry clothes, right? Because the only non-high end things in that condo that I live in are the washer and dryer. And they fucking work.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
They wash the clothes and they dry the clothes, right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
They’re regular old GE or Maytag, some random ass white-faced brand, none of those stainless steel or…
Jeff:
One thing that the New York place has that I had not seen before that I like a lot is the dishwasher is not one dishwasher. It’s two half-sized dishwashers which is weird.
Casey:
Right. So you can alternate…
Jeff:
But when you’re just one person or 2 people…
Casey:
It’s super handy.
Jeff:
It’s way handy. And also, the squirter is way closer to all the stuff. Like, even if you have to do a double load…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
You’ve got double squirt. But I was like, “Okay, if I get [ new things ]…” And those are just not that popular anymore. It’s hard to find the…
Casey:
Oh, okay.
Jeff:
They’re just the full-on crazy… Those Bosch ones are the worst dishwashers ever.
Casey:
So, I would love to be part of a company… Like, if someone is to start a company… It’s like the only thing this company does is they just do one product at a time and it’s just ,“We make a thing that actually works. That’s all we do. So all we do is we just make a dishwasher that actually washes dishes.”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
That is all we do.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
“And we promise you that when you put dishes into this. It will actually wash the dishes.” And what’s super interesting about that is it’s funny that we’ve come so far that “this product will wash your dishes” is on nobody’s radar. Nobody is trying to tell you that they will wash the dishes. It’s all about, “We’ve got a 3rd rack for utensils.” I was like, “Look, I don’t need more space to put in utensils that you won’t clean. I already clean all my knives my fucking self because if there’s anything on them, you can’t get it off.” I used to be able to put stuff in a dishwasher. I used to be able to put dirty dishes in a dishwasher. Now, at best, I put in basically clean stuff in the dishwasher that maybe could just use a polish. It’s almost like a finishing guy.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
It’s like the guy at the restaurant that puts the garnish on. It’s like, “I did all the work. I don’t know why I’m giving it to this guy but he brightens it up a little bit.”
Jeff:
That’s awesome.
Casey:
Better still is there’s all this stuff that you didn’t even used to need that they now claim you have to have. They’re like, “You know what, you’re out of Rinse Aid.”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
What the fuck is Rinse Aid?
Jeff:
I don’t…
Casey:
You never used to have to have Rinse Aid.
Jeff:
My thing…
Casey:
Rinse the goddamn dishes.
Jeff:
My thing says you have to put… I never put anything in that thing…
Casey:
Me neither.
Jeff:
So I don’t know what that does. I don’t do it.
Casey:
It’s ridiculous. It’s like we can’t dry these off without fucking chemicals that make it so that it doesn’t stick to the glass or whatever.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You’re like, “We never used to have that. How is it possible that we used to wash dishes without that and now, it’s not possible.”
Jeff:
The Nest is particularly awesome because they kind of were trying to be the company you wanted where they’re like, “We just go in and make good versions of something that already exists.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And they pick things like, “Oh, hey, thermostat…”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Westinghouse has not changed the fucking…
Casey:
Honeywell. . .
Jeff:
Westinghouse and Honeywell have not changed it at all in 50 years. Let’s go do this.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Now, the Nests are complete shit. And I can talk about that in a long…
Casey:
Yes, they are.
Jeff:
Because every single human being online says the Nest saves them money or the Nest is awesome. Do not trust them to, like…
Casey:
Anything.
Jeff:
Anything. Do not let them babysit your children because they are incapable of… There’s something that happens when people spend money that they have to rationalize to themselves that they didn’t waste it.
Casey:
Is this the [inaudible 20:52]
Jeff:
I mean exact opposite. It’s very difficult for me to ever feel like I got my money’s worth…
Casey:
Me, too.
Jeff:
And I go around my entire life being angry.
Casey:
Angry, yes.
Jeff:
I’m always angry Andy Rooney about the last thing I bought even though I want it to be awesome.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
So the Nest… And to be clear, Nest sucks but Honeywell and…
Casey:
[ All systems ]…
Jeff:
They’re fucking cunts. They sued them for making a thing… You’re like, “You haven’t done anything in 30 years.” And they’re like, “No, we have some patents on…”
Casey:
“We’re protecting innovation. It’s encouraging innovation.”
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s like, “No, it is not. It is the opposite of that.”
Jeff:
And also, when they got bought by Google and they put out Tweets just being fully douchebag Tweets like, “Well, we’re not going to steal your data from the NSA.” And I’m like, “You would if you could.”
Casey:
Right. You don’t know how.
Jeff:
Let’s be clear. You don’t know how. There’s nothing here… The only fact that your bucking thermostat looks like it’s from the 1950’s today is the reason why… Because you’d be sharing the shit out of that with the NSA…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Because, by the way, your Bond division that works for them, they would love to have some synergy between the thermostat and the bomb department.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
That’s fantastic news for the 3rd quarter.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Anyway…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
They’re fucking cunts but the Nest is complete shit. It does absolutely everything the wrong way.
Casey:
Well, the fact that it’s a purely suggestive way of controlling the temperature sounds very bad. It sounds like it will never work. If it actually worked, great. But I’m like, that’ll never work.
Jeff:
Your focusing on the small problems.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I’m talking about…
Casey:
[ I’ve never had them ]…
Jeff:
Massive engineering decision-making…
Casey:
Such as?
Jeff:
They run… There’s no software in the nest.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
All there is is a wireless controller…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
That connects to your wireless and talks to Nest Co. servers…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And then, that’s where all of the [ powerful ] thinking because they bought Watson or something. He’s trying to decide what your temperature is. Get a button on the goddamn thermostat because my phone is way smaller than a thermostat and it has a 1.7 gigahertz CPU in it and you can’t pull that shit off.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
No, we don’t do that. We go and talk to the web. So guess what, wireless never fucking works. Wireless doesn’t work on my tablet when I sit down in my office. Half the time, I can’t connect and I get pissed about that. Whatever. But if the Nest can’t talk to Nest Co.… And by the way, that assumes Nest Co. servers are gonna be running 30 years from now…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Because they’re not gonna be running. They shut down World of Warcraft servers. I mean, shit goes down. Companies get out of the business. What if Nest is gonna be a piece of shit eventually? Anyway, my mom is just like, “It’s wicked hot in the house.” And I’m like, “Go look at the Nest.” And she says, “It can’t connect to the internet.” And now, I’m on the phone with my mom, trying to diagnose embedded… Typing in the fucking password to get on your wireless with the Nest… By the way, goddamn nightmare. It’s like cracking a safe ‘cos you rotate it back and forth for the letters…
Casey:
Oh, no. I can’t…
Jeff:
It’s the worst. Everything about it sucks. And then, everybody who buys it thinks it’s awesome because they have some bullshit iPad app and it’s like, “Here’s how much you saved.” And they say, “$49.” I’m like, “Over what? You didn’t have my old bill.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And also, it’s wicked easy to save money when you don’t do anything because you can’t connect.
Casey:
Right. It’s like it’s freezing in my house, you saved a lot of money…
Jeff:
You save so much money.
Casey:
Because you couldn’t turn it on.
Jeff:
Because the wireless router needs to be rebooted. So I’m walking my mom… Everyone has computer problems with their mom.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
I mean, that’s the whole joke of having to deal with your parents when you go home.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Every bit of that is now on the goddamn thermostat. That’s the internet of things.
Casey:
The failure case is now way worse. Your mom freezes to death because the fucking Nest can’t talk to Nest HQ.
Jeff:
Yeah, that’s the internet of things. That’s what’s gonna happen when your fridge can’t talk to Frigidaire.com.
Casey:
I’m sure it’s probably some awesome thing ‘cos they were like, “Well, you know, there’s really no way for us to write a system that monitors the temperature in your home and adjust it in only 256 megs of RAM or something. Right?
Jeff:
The job [inaudible 25:40]
Casey:
We just started this shit up and just loading Apache and the PHP that we need, plus the Javascripting that we need, plus this, plus that, plus the other thing… That’s pretty much 200 megs right there. And we need at least…
Jeff:
Yeah, [inaudible 25:56]
Casey:
Yeah, we haven’t even [inaudible 25:58] and you’re just, “You’re all fired. Every last one of you is fired.” I feel like… Yeah. And you know what the cruelest thing is? If we really want to talk about what the cruelest, cruelest things that humanity has done here… So one of the interesting things about technology, so software, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Is that it has zero reproduction cost. And so, while software people [ are always [ complaining about piracy and whatever the fuck, they never talk about the flipside of that which is that they literally got the reproduction for free. Piracy, you could think of, is just the equalizer of the fact that most other people have to pay 90% just to make the thing that they sold to you for the 10% profit, right?
Jeff:
Okay. Sure.
Casey:
Whereas you get 100% of the money every time someone buys this thing because there was no cost to you to reproduce it, right?
Jeff:
Right. Okay.
Casey:
If I sell you a mug, right, I’ve got to pay for the fucking mug every time.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
But if I have a program that draws a mug, I don’t have to pay anything, right? Furthermore, it gets disseminated instantaneously across the world. I don’t have to pay for shipping. I don’t have to pay for anything that you would normally have to pay for (customs, any of that stuff), right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
The result of that is you get this really big differential between the amount of money you can extract out of your work and the amount of money that, say, a plumber can extract out of his work. He has to actually fix the pipe, right, or whatever.
Jeff:
Right, he has some cost [ to raise. ]
Casey:
Or the person who’s making the mug, they have to actually make the mug, right? So the cruel thing about all of this is the people who are ruining all of your devices, they are all making tons of money. They’re getting paid very well to be very bad at their job, basically, right, to be not good at all.
Jeff:
Well, I would also say there’s a separate rant here which is everything I’m complaining about is because, “Hey, I’m wealthy and I buy all this stupid shit.”
Casey:
Right. But you could just stop buying it which is what I…
Jeff:
Well, I will say that that ignores the problem.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Because this is… Every single problem I have by buying stupid one percent-y things…
Casey:
Right, it’s what other people have in 10 years…
Jeff:
Everything will be that in shorter than we think.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And I’m obviously not saying that I’m providing a service, right, but I’m saying that when peop rant about these things and then people are like, “Oh, that’s a 1% problem,” you’re like, “That’s missing the point.” Complaining about electric cars in the way that infrastructure or electric cars works is good whether they’re 1% or not because it has to be fucking fixed before we run out of oil.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
That has to be done. And so, we can’t simply get to the point where we’re out of oil and then everybody is trying to deal with the fucking fact that, on Friday morning, no one can go to work in America because they’re all out of electricity in their cars, right?
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
That’s a bad thing. And it’s the same thing with the internet things, Nest, any of these, or complaining about the fact that high end dishwashers suck… We’re like, “Don’t buy high end dishwashers.” No. Every dishwasher will be this in 3 years.
Casey:
Yes, exactly.
Jeff:
This is really bad.
Casey:
Yes. I haven’t had… I don’t think I’ve lived in a place with a working dishwasher for 10 years.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And what’s interesting about it is, again, what I’m looking at and what concerns me most is the differential, right. If software was getting better, then I wouldn’t be worried. But software is getting worse. So the number of things it does is getting more, right. You’re increasing the number of things it does. But the quality with which it does it is getting drastically worse all the time. And that means there’s no… If we don’t course-correct, eventually you’re going to have something that just is unrecognizable, even. It’s just gonna be random heat in your house and it will be playing an ad for Coca Cola on your thermostat and you’ll have no fucking idea what’s going on, right? It’s a complete disaster zone. It will be like idiocracy, quite literally. No one will have a clue what’s going on. And I think that that’s just… I don’t know. When you see human progress getting thwarted by the fact that we just don’t set up the feedback loop to actually optimize what we want or what we should want which is clean fucking dishes as opposed to pretty exterior of the dishwasher, then I feel like that’s really… It’s a problem that we’re going to have to fix.
Jeff:
I don’t know… Is there anybody that actually really pushes a marketing message of, “Our shit just works”?
Casey:
No. That’s what I’m saying. That’s become… What I would like our stores…
Jeff:
I’m just trying to think if there’s anybody that’s, like… Maybe there is…
Casey:
So there is one that I could think of and I used it as an example previously. I think we were talking about some other topic on a previous podcast which is there is in sort of… At least the marketing is there. So the example I would give is, like, the Ford F150. That is sold to you as doing all this shit that you would never normally do with an automobile, right. It’s like, “It can lift 800,000 tons. It never breaks down and the axle is made out of titanium milled by gypsies in the back of the…” You have no idea what’s going on but it’s like, very clearly sold to you as being this indestructible, perfect thing or whatever. Now, whether the Ford F150 does any of those things or even fucking starts in cold weather, I have no idea. But they are…
Jeff:
At least their marketing is about…
Casey:
Their marketing is that whereas I never see that for appliance. I never see, “Hey, you put a dish in the dishwasher and it came out clean. Frigidaire.”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Or whatever. I never see any of that.
Jeff:
Right. Yeah. That’s interesting. I suppose that’s true. The really weird masculine thing that truck sales are about…
Casey:
There’s none of that in anything else.
Jeff:
There’s nothing foofy in it. It’s always… There are certainly trucks like the newer Dodge trucks that are about looking good. But primarily, they are pushing utility and stuff that is not necessarily like “the car looks good” like a sports car is all about what it looks like but trucks are… They don’t push that which is interesting, yeah.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
I guess their market is… That’s all they…
Casey:
That’s all they do.
Jeff:
Yeah. Interesting.
Casey:
So I don’t know. I have identified that as the one place that I’ve seen this sort of thing, the reliability aspect.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I don’t watch enough TV, I don’t see enough ads today. There might be other less… I know that one because you’re going to see a Ford F150 ad if you see any television at all, right. You’re going to see those bigger ads. So there may be… If you see more television or if you’ve got more exposure to advertising maybe in magazines or something like this, like a print magazine… Maybe there’s other people who are [inaudible 32:39] that I just haven’t seen.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
But yeah…
Jeff:
I wonder if… Yeah. I think before we should have the internet of things, let’s just put a pause on that and let’s just make the internet as it exists right now work. Let’s focus on the internet before we put things on the internet because we don’t need more stuff on the internet.
Casey:
There’s some interesting stuff, too. So one of the interesting things that I’ve noticed, just to give a simple example of software sucking the most amount of balls these days that it possibly could… And people don’t even seem to notice. They just don’t even seem to notice the degree to which software sucks.
Jeff:
Yeah. That’s a separate thing that we could talk about, actually, because Brian Hook and I…
Casey:
Not noticing?
Jeff:
Why people put up with flakiness nowadays…
Casey:
I don’t know. Or, like, no buttons on my trackpad and all that shit.
Jeff:
The flakiness… I can’t remember who takes what side but there are two theories.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
One is cellphones being unreliable because they just were initially.
Casey:
That is enough.
Jeff:
That was like enough to set like, “Oh, hey. Phones don’t work all the time.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
’Cos that never used to be a thing.
Casey:
Like, maybe they can’t hear what the other person says…
Jeff:
Yeah, like that. And my thing was F5, like always being able to refresh…
Casey:
Dude, you know what?
Jeff:
If something doesn’t work, you just keep… Like, the fact that…
Casey:
Hold on. There’s something very important to say there. So that is very interesting, what you just said.
Jeff:
What?
Casey:
When you put it together with the Ford F150 thing. There used to be ads that were fucking pin falling from the sky and it would hit the ground and go… And it would say like, “Our connections are so clear, you can hear a pin drop.”
Jeff:
Oh, yeah.
Casey:
And it was for the phone company. You couldn’t hear a truck of pins crashing into another truck of pins, right, today. You can’t hear shit. You have no idea what’s going on. The ability to identify something as a pin dropping is so far beyond the wildest dreams of anyone who’s using a cellphone.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So that’s a very interesting shift when you think about it, in terms of the marketing. No one would ever market that today.
Jeff:
Right. There’s a funny thing. My phone fucked up recently and I had to get a new one. And it took me 2 weeks to really realize that my phone was broken…
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
Because the microphone had gotten fucked. And so, I just thought it was a shitty connection. So I had conference calls where I was like, “No, you don’t want to do that,” where I was yelling really loud. And I just thought, “Fucking connection.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And it wasn’t until… I can’t remember where I was. I was talking to somebody I talk to all the time. They’re like, “I think it’s gotten worse.” And then I had Dawn’s phone. I called my cellphone, like, “Okay, somebody should have said this isn’t a bad…” It’s like you can’t… The microphone’s not working. And I felt really stupid. 2 weeks, I just shouted.
Casey:
But that’s…
Jeff:
I tried to order food at Serious Pie and it was crazy.
Casey:
“I said, I want a mozzarella!”
Jeff:
It was crazy.
Casey:
Okay. The thing that I was gonna bring up as an example is… This is separate from why people don’t notice… I don’t know why they don’t notice. I think it’s just mass market. I think when you widen the market enough, people just don’t care anymore. They’re not serious purchasers. So the purchasing…
Jeff:
I don’t think that’s true. I think we acclimated them.
Casey:
You think so?
Jeff:
And so, there’s 2 things. One is the internet, you always hit F5 when something doesn’t work. So there’s a button on the computer that people now know that you press when something’s fucked.
Casey:
Refresh.
Jeff:
Like, let’s try it again.
Casey:
Reboot. Reboot the machine’s been around for a long time, too. Reboot the machine’s a big one.
Jeff:
But I think it was a hook [inaudible 36:30]
Casey:
Cellphones.
Jeff:
As soon as you, like… The connection can be dropped at any time. The connection is completely fucking random. And you’re paying more than you pay for your landline for that. You’re like, “That was our descent.” But yeah… Okay. So continue.
Casey:
I was gonna say my example is nowadays, I frequently… It frequently takes me longer to access my Gmail when the computer is coming back from Sleep or something like this than it does just to boot the machine. If you’re to cold boot my machine, log in, that process takes less time than trying to get the web browser to fucking connect to Gmail and just get my mail, right, because whatever the fuck happens…
Jeff:
After Sleep.
Casey:
Who knows, right? Yeah, like after Sleep. And the same is true of just times that I’m using it. Like, “Oh, it’s kinda slow right now,” and I click on the mail and I’m kind of waiting for the mail to maybe come. It’s like, when I was born into computers, like when I was fucking 5, they were super responsive. Everything ran locally. It was a really good experience. It was a positive experience and it’s all gone to shit.
Jeff:
Yeah. You couldn’t do as much, certainly. And it was awkward…
Casey:
I don’t know.
Jeff:
I don’t know. I would say I couldn’t do as much with my old computers than I can do now.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And it was very awkward to do so.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But for the most part, things got done which is it’s much harder now. And I don’t know. There may be other reasons.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It may not be the software flakiness necessarily that makes me less productive. It may be other things, distractions…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Because, like, “Hey, you can do multiple things.” You do. And people are bad at doing multiple things. I don’t know.
Casey:
Yeah, it’s true. They are.
Jeff:
So the internet of things is a huge… I don’t think it will happen. That’s one of those…
Casey:
It’s a huge no. But it already is. The Nest and the smart TV is a great example.
Jeff:
Yeah, just to do this in a big way, it’s like… It requires so much agreeing on nonsense that I hope that…
Casey:
You know what, so here’s another interesting thing that… And I don’t know if it’s possibly true from a “what people buy” sampling…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
But it’s definitely not true from a reality sampling which is you see this with… If we step out of the internet of things world for a minute and just focus on, like, personal computers. So in personal computers, you have a situation where there are people selling you things that add on to the personal computer. It used to be things like soundcards. It still is things like video cards, mouse, a keyboard, a microphone…
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
In the old days, you plug one of those things in and you prayed to God that it worked, right? Because the software itself had to have a thing that would work with the IRQ settings and all this fucking shit. It was like whatever.
Jeff:
Yep, jumpers.
Casey:
There’s a big thing that actually made a substantial improvement which was like plug & play, we wrote some drivers, when you plug the thing in, it tries to find the driver and it works, whatever, right? But manufacturers, at some point, got the idea in their heads that the driver was a value add.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
We saw this with soundcards first. They’re like, “Wait a minute, what if when you went to the panel to control your soundcard, it was like a beautifully rendered piano within a concert hall and you could play some things and see and adjust and set it right?” And so, in their mind, they’re like, “We can differentiate and make our products unique by the software that comes with them even though the product is not software.” Right?
Jeff:
Mmhmm…
Casey:
The reality is that people who write that software have no idea what they’re doing. It doesn’t work at all. It crashes more often. It’s a complete disaster. Like every time the driver…
Jeff:
Yeah, it’s usually running all the time.
Casey:
If a driver is installed by a hardware peripheral, the game is over.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And with soundcards, there was a period I remember… It was probably from ‘98 to maybe 2003 and 4 where the chances that a soundcard would blue screen your machine at some point were 1 in 1.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
There is no question that it would because they weren’t just focusing on trying to get some sound to the card. They were like, all this other shit was going on, right? And so, I feel like that is a bit problem, mentality-wise, that is probably infecting the internet of things. I’m a light manufacturer. And all of a sudden, I get to thinking, “Oh, this could be a big selling point for me. You plug it into the internet and there’s this app that controls your lighting.” Hold on.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Let’s recall the fact that the app you write is going to suck balls because you don’t know how to make software and you’re not gonna learn anytime soon.
Jeff:
Right. Well, and also, because the reason that software is going to be there for you as a company isn’t necessarily to control the lights even though that’s what it’s for the consumer.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
What is there for you is to sell light bulbs or app for light bulbs.
Casey:
Yep.
Jeff:
Or like, “Oh here’s…” All that’s going to be there. So yeah, it’s done a way bad thing. Once drivers started launching EXE’s…
Casey:
Oh, yeah.
Jeff:
A good way… That Epson printer I got has so much crap… And the only way I can prevent it from running was to actually go delete the executables at the [inaudible 42:02]
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
I was like, “I can’t… There’s no way that the driver loads.” It’s not like this is running on autoruns or anything.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
It is like, the driver has to be there. But when the driver loads, it loads a trillion things at once. And they don’t do, as far as I can tell, anything.
Casey:
No, they do. They need that 50 megabyte executable because without it, they couldn’t tell you that you’re out of toner 7 months before you’re actually out of toner.
Jeff:
By the way, yes… By the way, that was something that just happened to me the other day, internet of things-wise, was my printer was printing fine…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And it had been saying for a week or so that “you’re low on ink”.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And I’m like, “Whatever.”
Casey:
Yeah. It’s like, “I’ll let you know when I’m low on ink.”
Jeff:
Yeah. I’m like, “That’s my decision.”
Casey:
No, it’s not anymore.
Jeff:
Yeah, at one point, printing 6 out of 8 pages, the previous 6 are completely dark. There’s no way it’s out of ink, right? It’s printing fine. It says, “You’re out of ink. Replace the cartridges,” and stops printing. It will not print anymore. Even if I reboot it, it will not print anymore until I replace the thing.
Casey:
Awesome.
Jeff:
It was in the middle of that which is so user-hostile. Like, it’s up to me if the ink is too [inaudible 43:22]
Casey:
Not anymore, my friend.
Jeff:
That’s the same thing that hit me on the way back on the airplane was I’m watching a movie. I have about… It’s near the end of the movie. Windows says, “You have 10% left.” I’m like, “Fine, okay.” Keep watching. And about 5 minutes later, I’m literally 3 minutes from the end of the movie, it just turns off.
Casey:
What movie was it?
Jeff:
It just turns off.
Casey:
What movie?
Jeff:
Gravity.
Casey:
Okay. So she’s landing in the pool of water…
Jeff:
She just blew the hatch and then the computer turns off.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
This is the awesome thing is… I complained about this on Twitter, like, “Who the fuck decides for me when something turns… It’s up to me. What if I had 2 letters to write, 2 more letters to hit send on an important email? As soon as you decide that for me, you become completely hostile.”
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And then you get the whole Twitter will tell you how to fix it.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And I had a [inaudible 44:32] rage.
Casey:
They were like, “It’s time you switch to Git. If you switch to Git, your machine wouldn’t have shut down.”
Jeff:
The stuff I got was like, “Well, it does that to save the battery.” I’m like, “You’re missing…” Or it’s like, “No, there’s a setting.” And I’m like, “Really? Did you try it? Did you try it?” They’re like, “No, there’s a setting.” I’m like, “Did you try it?”
Casey:
Did you actually try it?
Jeff:
“Did you try what you’re suggesting…”
Casey:
Before you suggested…
Jeff:
“Before you suggested it?” And they’re like, “Oh, yeah. It doesn’t stick.” UI lets you go to zero but as soon as you hit apply…
Casey:
No, it doesn’t.
Jeff:
It pops back to 5.
Casey:
Are you serious?
Jeff:
5 is when Windows 8 shuts down.
Casey:
So you’re telling me that they actually let the slider go below 5% but then it jumps back…
Jeff:
Well, it’s a number with arrows at the top and the bottom, what are those called?
Casey:
Spin control.
Jeff:
Yeah, so spin it down to zero, hit apply and it goes 5. So, yeah.
Casey:
Awesome.
Jeff:
They have decided… Microsoft has decided no Microsoft laptop will ever go down below 5. And I’m sure they have some usage case of sometimes people’s registry gets fucked. Sometimes…
Casey:
Right, right…
Jeff:
Their solution was not to fix the fucking registry. Their solution was not to do that. It’s like, “No, we have, for an entire industry, decided that 5% of your battery will never be used.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
It’s like, that is space that every time I pick up that computer, I’m lifting that 2 ounces that adds up to 5% or one ounce or half an ounce. I pick it up, I can’t use it. I’m not allowed to use it systemically.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And that’s like, even if you think they’re doing something good, if you don’t understand how that is a hostile act, then you lose your ability to make software because you know…
Casey:
You know whose fault that is. We can trace that one back. We know exactly where that comes from. That is thanks to Apple computer because the day someone decided that a disk gets ejected when the operating system says it’s okay to get ejected, that was when shit went downhill.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Because it used to be that there was a lever. And when you push that in, the disk came out.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And then, Steve Jobs or somebody in his infinitesimal wisdom was like, “You know what would be better? It’s if it just couldn’t come out unless the operating system knows that.” Good idea in theory because, hey, you can always ensure that writes were finished. You got that. That’s a good thought. Unfortunately, you then never wrote software that ever was able to reliably stop thinking. It needed the disk in the drive.
Jeff:
The Tesla won’t unplug the power line. It’s a software-based thing.
Casey:
Oh, God. No.
Jeff:
So you have to be… Your key has to be there so you can unplug it so no one fucks you and unplugs it. The car is allowed to install and update and fuck you.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
But…
Casey:
But…
Jeff:
No one else can [ unplug for you ].
Casey:
No one can yank your charge.
Jeff:
But because of that, it never fucking works.
Casey:
Make that a hardware lock. Make that a hardware lock.
Jeff:
Yes, I [inaudible 47:30]
Casey:
Make a key that you turn.
Jeff:
And that’s not how it works. So you end up, you press the button, and then it’s a little latent so then you yank and your arm hurts and you’re like, “Okay, that didn’t work,” and then it unlocks.
Casey:
I’ve done it, yeah. It’s crazy.
Jeff:
And then you go to pull it and you press the button again which locks it. So…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Yeah. It’s like, no… I imagine we’re coming today because USB, they want you to right-click on the tiny little icon on the bottom to say eject it.
Casey:
Oh, you think there’s going to be a lock in there.
Jeff:
I think eventually, someone’s just gonna go, “Hey, you know, if we had a lock, then nobody’s gonna pull out their thing and they won’t lose any data.” That will be their mentality, thinking they’re helping when they actually make the world worse.
Casey:
5% of your USB drive is left…
Jeff:
It’s almost out, so we’re going to stop now.
Casey:
Well, that’s like that thing where they’re like, in the Affordable Care Act or whatever, they’re like, “No more than 20% of a health insurance cost can be administrative or whatever it was.”
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Which, I’m like, “Wait, that’s the same as saying that 20%…” In other words, when you say something like that, that basically means that you have basically just taken all costs and increased them by that 20% because they’re not going to not use that amount, right? And now, it’s completely fixed and fine.
Jeff:
Oh, it’s nuts.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
Alright, well yes… The internet of things won… That should not happen.
Casey:
I think he probably did not expect us to say that we loved it. So I’m guessing he was not surprised by the answer to that…
Jeff:
No. Yes, that is true.
Casey:
Or rather the discussion that we’re hauling around…
Jeff:
I kind of want to go read on somebody who actually thinks this is a good idea.
Casey:
[inaudible 49:09]
Jeff:
It’s always the person who’s like, “No, no, no, no. Your fridge will know when you’re out of food and order you more food.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And I’m like, “I don’t know what his online ordering experience has been but mine has not been…”
Casey:
You’re kind special.
Jeff:
I don’t want anything automatically brought to me ever.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Like if I’m out, I want it to be fast and easy to get me new things but I’m fully capable of not having the refrigerator making those decisions for me. It’s like, “Maybe when I ran out of this thing, it was because I’m going to stop eating it.”
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
There’s no saying, “I need more pickle relish,” or whatever I ran out of. There’s no… It doesn’t have any world knowledge. It’s retarded.
Casey:
It’s going to be pretty awesome because, in your case, it will be like, “He needs another 69 bunches of bananas.”
Jeff:
No, no, no. That is not the way it should go.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
Alright, so we will finish this guy up.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Keep sending topics.
Casey:
Absolutely. Send topics.
Jeff:
Podcast@JeffAndCaseyShow.com
Casey:
Podcast@JeffAndCaseyShow… If you have a question about the internet of things that you think we can answer, let us know.
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
And we will see you next week.
Jeff:
We will see you. Thank you.
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casey muratori
the jeff and casey show - season 4 - episode 4
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