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The Jeff and Casey Show
Jeff and Casey Time
Casey Muratori
Seattle, WA
Exhuming the Body
"We are finding out if he was collecting the semen of young men, or collecting his own."
Original air date: March 10th, 2014
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Transcript
Jeff:
Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Jeff & Casey Show.
Casey:
Hello. And welcome to the Jeff & Casey Show. So I have a confession to make here on the Jeff & Casey Show.
Jeff:
Tell me. Yeah, those are the best shows, those like…
Casey:
Well, it’s not that kind of…
Jeff:
Oh, it’s not that kind of…
Casey:
It’s not like the good one when you talked about how you, because of your medication, you had acne…
Jeff:
Oh, the Flomax?
Casey:
Yeah, exactly. Flomax. It’s not as good as that kind of confession.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
This is just simply the fact that somebody had sent in an email, a topics email, and it had fallen through the cracks.
Jeff:
Okay. From last year?
Casey:
I believe this was my fault. Yeah, it was some months ago.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
And so, I need to rectify that.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
Right here and now.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
This comes from Hamish Tod, our friend from across the seas.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
I believe he lives in the Great Britains…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
The Great Britain colonies…
Jeff:
You’re guessing?
Casey:
No, I’m quite certain he lives in Great Britain.
Jeff:
Alright. Okay.
Casey:
But, you know, on the Jeff & Casey Show, we tend to get things wrong.
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
So the fact that I am quite certain about something…
Jeff:
He’s Australian.
Casey:
Yeah… I feel like that’s a very bad mistake to make. You don’t ever want to call an Australian an English man or vice versa. New Zealand and Australia is bad, too.
Jeff:
No, that’s bad news bears.
Casey:
That’s even worse. Anyway, putting that aside, he wrote in and he was trying to send in a Good/No Good.
Jeff:
Oh, okay. We hadn’t done those in a long time.
Casey:
And unfortunately, this really isn’t a Good/No Good. When I read it, I’m like, “It is definitely something we should tal about but it’s not a Good/No Good.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
It was sort of a fakeout, almost, because he said, Good/No Good, he wanted me to ask you if overhearing a conversation in public was Good or No Good.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
And that might the an okay Good/No Good, it’s true. But then, in the email, after asking that…
Jeff:
He talks about a scenario?
Casey:
He goes on to say… And I’ll read it to you.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I’ve got it up on the screen here. He goes on to say, “I’ll tell you the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard.”
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
“I’m walking down the staircase of a local W.H. Smith.”
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I’m not familiar with this store.
Jeff:
Okay. I don’t know what that is, either, but okay.
Casey:
“Standing on the lower stairs was a woman in her 50’s looking daggers at a younger man who is a bit taller than her.”
Jeff:
Okay. “Looking daggers” is angry?
Casey:
Well, it’s intensely. I mean, it’s like…
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
It’s probably upset, right?
Jeff:
Staring…
Casey:
But not necessarily enraged necessarily. Just giving you if looks could kill…
Jeff:
Alright. I like it.
Casey:
“As I passed him, she says, ‘Do you know what they’re going to have to do now? They’re going to have to exhume the body?’”
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
“She says this in a volume slightly above normal speaking. It is very clear. I am 100% sure this is what she said. I did not stick around to hear more. I kept walking.”
Jeff:
I see. Okay. Yeah, I think that’s probably a good idea because the longer you’re there, the more of an accessory to the crime you probably will be.
Casey:
That’s probably true.
Jeff:
So it’s like, keep moving.
Casey:
So what he said was, “One extra question you can discuss if you like is what is the best or least bad thing that could have gone on here.”
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
“There are lots of bad things that could have happened and thoughts of those follow me around. But is there any way you can reassure me? Is there anything even semi-innocent that could result in a body needing to be exhumed?”
Jeff:
Well, you know how sometimes, you drop a wedding ring into the sink or something?
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
So it could be that. It’s like, “Oh, great. You were just saying goodbye to grandpa and, oops, it went in.” You have to exhume the body to get the thing out, right?
Casey:
Right. Yeah, like we buried the body and we accidentally buried grandma with Aunt Suzie’s necklace on her still and Aunt Suzie wants it back or something really badly.
Jeff:
It’s just some scenario where it’s like, “Yes, it’s bad but it’s not evil.”
Casey:
Well…
Jeff:
And there also could be, like… There could be some Da Vinci Code situation. They have to open it to see some writing on the top of the coffin that Tom Hanks wrote perhaps.
Casey:
I feel like this is a vocabulary issue again, if I may.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Because the way I would reassure Hamish in this situation, purely from a “I’m trying to reassure him” standpoint and not because I actually have any knowledge about what actually happened to this person. Maybe it is quite horrid.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
It’s that I feel like if it was a situation where foul play or something evil was afoot, I feel like you would not be using the word “exhume”.
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
Like, exhume, to me suggests a certain formality to the process.
Jeff:
Yeah, but these are English people who, like…
Casey:
That’s true. They may be more proper than us because normally, if some gangster shit’s going down, you don’t exhume a body. You dig it up.
Jeff:
Yeah, I see.
Casey:
It’s like, “We’ve got to dig that shit up,” is what would get said.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
“We’re gonna have to dig up the body,” is what you would say in an elicit situation, I believe.
Jeff:
Okay. So that’s about okay.
Casey:
Now, I may be wrong about that but that’s my gut reaction. I don’t know about you.
Jeff:
So the other thing is this just could be some corporate malfeasance like, “Oh, we have to exhume the body because the coffin was…”
Casey:
They buried it in the wrong place?
Jeff:
Yeah, they buried it in the wrong place or the coffin was made of something that’s going to leach into the soil.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Any of these situations are also on the table.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And, I mean, going all the way to the fact that maybe grandpa’s actually alive because they re-examined the autopsy and they’re like, “I’m sorry. He had a pulse. I don’t know if you saw this…”
Casey:
Yeah…
Jeff:
And like, “Oh, great. We have to exhume the body.
Casey:
So here’s the thing that makes this complicated and the reason why I think it’s not straightforward for me to sort of imagine what exactly is going on in these people’s heads is because the person who’s saying this exhumation, is suggesting exhumation, as a response to something where it is evidently not already clear that the body… Like, she is feeling the need to clarify that the body will have to be exhumed.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Which means whatever the other dude said, he wasn’t clear on the fact that it meant… So if I said something like, “Oh, my God. We buried Carl instead of Dave,” you probably wouldn’t need to clarify the fact that shit’s gonna go down, right. But it has to be something subtle enough that the lady felt like she needed to tell you.
Jeff:
Well, here’s what I think. My immediate thing of what I thought happened… Like, if you want my best guess to what happened is…
Casey:
What’s your best guess?
Jeff:
My best guess is they’re reading the will and there is an elicit daughter or son who says, “I’m entitled to some of that because he’s actually my father…”
Casey:
Oh, and they have to paternity test it or something?
Jeff:
They have to paternity test…
Casey:
Oh, my God.
Jeff:
So that’s what went through my mind of what are the reasons why you have to dig somebody up.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And it would be for establishing… Because there’s very few reasons… Like the whole robbing the wedding ring is like… People are just gonna be… Look, you don’t want…
Casey:
You don’t want that. You don’t wear that anymore.
Jeff:
That is a wicked haunted ring. That ring is…
Casey:
That’s been 6 feet under for too long.
Jeff:
Yeah, that is bad news. But something where you’re like, “No, he was a wealthy person and he had…” You know, he gets around…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You know, the wealthy don’t have a lot of control.
Casey:
He put it around. He was putting it around there.
Jeff:
He put it around. And then, he has somebody who shows up and says, “I’m entitled to one-sixth of his wealth.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And then, they’re in that situation. They’re like, “Great.”
Casey:
I feel like this is a good…
Jeff:
That seems the most plausible to me, on that very small snippet of information, what I would guess.
Casey:
Here’s what I would say. That suggests to me a 20 questions game. Like, you know the 20 questions things of, like, you pick an item and I have to ask you 20 questions to see if I can get down to what it actually was. There was that internet one which sort of works okay…
Jeff:
No, it worked great. It worked great. It always worked great.
Casey:
It did not always work great.
Jeff:
It worked pretty great.
Casey:
It was better than you expect, though.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
So I feel like that is something that you could almost construct for “exhume the body”. I feel like we could immediately start making that question tree.
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
Like, “Was the body male?” That’s a pretty good one to first ask because then our guests would immediately be, “He was sleeping around. Paternity test.” Right.
Jeff:
Well, maybe not. If you say, “Is the body male?” You’re just like, “Semen’s in the mix.”
Casey:
Right. Yeah.
Jeff:
Like, it could be pretty… It could be like they found something that we need to clean… Like, there’s a whole…
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
I’m just saying…
Casey:
What is that? No, explain that. “Found something that they need to clean”?
Jeff:
Well, like the situation where you have a whole bunch of bottles in grandpa’s… You know, the jugs of semen in the garage. They’re explaining…
Casey:
But what does that have to do with the body?
Jeff:
Well, you gotta know what this substance is. You can’t just be like… You’ve got to dispose of it properly like the bacon grease. You can’t just dump that down the drown.
Casey:
Stop talking.
Jeff:
It might clog it up. I’m just saying.
Casey:
Stop talking. Just stop talking for one second. So explain to me… I’ll fully flesh out the scenario that you just described.
Jeff:
Yes. I admit this is a long shot. But I’m saying this is part of the decision tree.
Casey:
Grandpa. He’s gone. He’s dead. We buried him last week. So he’s 6 feet underground. The funeral has completed.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
We are cleaning out his house. We come upon either one or many, I’m not sure about what is required here, jars filled with an unknown white liquid.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Well, semi-congealed…
Jeff:
Bacon grease? Don’t know.
Casey:
Hold on a second.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
So now, what is the purpose of digging up grandpa at this point? What are you gaining?
Jeff:
We’re finding out if it’s… If he was collecting the semen of young men or collecting his own.
Casey:
But what…
Jeff:
See, it’s important for just the [inaudible 10:03]
Casey:
Why couldn’t they just test if they’re all the same semen in all the jugs? I mean, can’t you just see how much different DNA’s in the jar?
Jeff:
Well, you could definitely do some, “Hey, this is all the same amount of semen.” It still doesn’t tell whether it was his or some young lovers.
Casey:
Okay, so basically…
Jeff:
The point I was trying to make…
Casey:
You would dig up the body to find this out?
Jeff:
Well, I think the family really owes it to… For all that semen… Like…
Casey:
What? He owes it to the semen?
Jeff:
To the truth.
Casey:
Oh, God. Okay.
Jeff:
So here’s… More important, what I’m trying to say…
Casey:
I feel like…
Jeff:
Even all the wacky scenarios that can happen…
Casey:
Okay. Alright.
Jeff:
Once you know male or female…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You pretty much know, “Is this gonna be gross or not? Are we looking down a scenario where something… Nothing good’s gonna happen…” Once it’s, like… No, this is… We’re dealing with a man…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
You’re like, there’s a lot more on the table than a woman is what I’m saying.
Casey:
Okay, I see. A lot more in the casket?
Jeff:
A lot more in the casket. A lot more in the jugs. There’s a lot of stuff on the table.
Casey:
I feel like a lot of your…
Jeff:
But you know how… You know how that 20 questions, the computer 20 questions, works…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Is its just simply trying to…
Casey:
It’s probably narrowing it down, right?
Jeff:
Yeah, it’s trying to pick the question that most equally distributes the remaining possibilities.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
So that’s why it’s… The funny thing about playing the computer 20 questions is it doesn’t narrow in on anything. It will be like, question 19 is, “Is it a comic book?”
Casey:
Yeah, or something.
Jeff:
And then you go, “No.” And then it goes, “Okay, it’s a microwave.” And you’re like, “Fuck.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Because it literally is just trying to choose the one question that eliminates…
Casey:
So this goes like, “Is it a comic book?” And it’s like, “No.” And it’s like, “It’s semen.”
Jeff:
Yeah. Right.
Casey:
How did it know?
Jeff:
How did it know?
Casey:
That’s what we dug him up for.
Jeff:
Yes, grandpa.
Casey:
Now, I don’t really know very much about this.
Jeff:
So what I’m saying is in terms of first question…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Knowing whether there’s a male of female is a good…
Casey:
That’s what I was saying.
Jeff:
It’s a good question except for the fact that it’s gonna be… There’s a lot more weird shit that happens in the decision tree dude versus female.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But we’re just trying to get to the truth, not necessarily the least uncomfortable truth.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So that’s probably the best decision.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Let’s get this out of the way.
Casey:
That’s not the topic. That’s [inaudible 12:16] Is semen…
Jeff:
Are we talking about grandma or grandpa?
Casey:
Yes. So I don’t really know very much about DNA testing but I assume… I assume they’ve got better techniques now than electrophoresis. I don’t know what they do but I assume they’ve got better stuff than that. That’s what I did in school. We actually did a DNA… We did electrophoresis in gels at Brown.
Jeff:
What 23andMe just does the dye matching thing where they print out and then they line it up, right, the little…
Casey:
I have no idea. I don’t know anything about 23andMe.
Jeff:
It’s shitty.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
It says the same thing to everybody.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
A… B, I can go off on…
Casey:
Right, right.
Jeff:
So first of, I have a very huge genetic anomaly in my particular DNA that should stand out like a huge sore thumb.
Casey:
Okay. So any…
Jeff:
I’m like… I’m missing a huge chunk of I think my 5th chromosome is just gone.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
No, it’s like, “Hey. You know, you’re 1% more likely to get diabetes.”
Casey:
Likely to have heart disease?
Jeff:
And you’d be like, “Thanks for that, 23andMe. Did you do anything…” No, it’s bullshit.
Casey:
Awesome.
Jeff:
But I was talking to Dave more about this and he says the really good stuff is coming…
Casey:
Soon?
Jeff:
In the next decade or so where it’s like… ‘Cos there’s all the genes…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Which match up to possibilities of things you may or may not get.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Or things that you will absolutely get.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
But then there’s also the little… And I can’t remember what these are called, unfortunately, but they’re the little markers that hang off… I don’t know if it’s the RNA or the DNA…
Casey:
Wow. Wow, Jeff.
Jeff:
But it’s the same thing that the… They’re the markers for, like, “Hey, your body is in…” Like, you’re in a situation where you overeat…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
These markers attach themselves to the cells of your DNA which makes it very difficult… They’re there from then on.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And they express themselves and stay on there forever. So that’s the thing, like…
Casey:
Okay, you’re talking, I assume, about mRNA. You’re talking about female lineage RNA transfer, I assume.
Jeff:
Yeah, pro--… I’m sorry.
Casey:
DNA doesn’t get changed.
Jeff:
Yeah, this is… I’d have to ask… We talked about this a lot at the red Christmas party because it is, like…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
What they’re finding out has more of an effect on your current… Like, there are things that knowing about your DNA is like, “Oh, if I have children, they’re more likely… Blablabla…”
Casey:
Right, right, right…
Jeff:
But in terms of the things that actually affect the things that are happening to you now and in the eve of your life, it’s these that have a huge impact.
Casey:
Yes. You are talking about RNA then.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Yes. Yes. And so that’s the weird thing is you get mRNA or something from your mother, right?
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Because it’s part of, like, as she develops you, you know, as she incubates you, basically.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You are getting the RNA from her and…
Jeff:
Well, that’s the really crazy thing about it is, like, if you become obese while you’re pregnant, the same markers that attach to your RNA attach to the child that’s developing.
Casey:
Right, you’ll have a fat baby.
Jeff:
They’re 30% more likely to be obese if you’re obese.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Even more crazy…
Casey:
Fat mama has fat babies, that’s what you’re telling me?
Jeff:
It gets worse.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
If the baby you’re having is a girl, all of the eggs that she will ever have are developed in the womb which means the grandchild is also… So you’ve got a fat baby, fat grandbaby, all because you ate one too many cheeseburgers.
Casey:
Yeah…
Jeff:
It’s, like, a lot of stress…
Casey:
Right. Yes, it is a lot of stress.
Jeff:
For the woman because it’s a very stressful thing to go through…
Casey:
As if it’s not stressful enough, females and eating, now they’ve got another thing to worry about. Yeah.
Jeff:
The human weight 250 years into the future…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Is being based on this action.
Casey:
Yeah. They should start… That’s, like, on the Happy Meal, right, or whatever? When you buy stuff at McDonald’s, there’s just a big…
Jeff:
Yeah, you might be making your grandbaby fat.
Casey:
Yeah, there’s just a big fat baby on there and, like, “This is your baby. This is your baby if you keep eating here.”
Jeff:
Yeah. But those little pictures of the fetus that the Right to Life people that’s sucking its thumb…
Casey:
Right, yes. Right, right…
Jeff:
They should have that picture but a fat baby…
Casey:
Super fucking fat, yes.
Jeff:
And it’s like, “Holy balls, that’s a fat ass baby.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And she’s not sucking her thumb, she’s holding a burger.
Casey:
Right. It’s like abortion stops a beating heart disease and it’s got them both. It’s got this fat baby… Yeah.
Jeff:
Anyway…
Casey:
I guess…
Jeff:
They apparently cannot test for that yet or they only can in very expensive tests but it’s coming to where you’re just like, “No, we just run this through, and [inaudible 17:08]
Casey:
[inaudible 17:09] is it hard to get mRNA out of shit or…
Jeff:
I don’t know.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I mean, the whole thing 23andMe… The reason why I thought it was bullshit…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And I have a whole bunch of… 23andMe sucks. It’s completely meaningless. So when they got, like…
Casey:
They got slapped by the FDA.
Jeff:
They got slapped. Now, them being slapped also is bullshit.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Because… But I was okay because it was a karma slap, not necessarily a fairness slap. The fairness slap is like doctors are upset…
Casey:
I love fairness slap/karma slap. Okay. Alright.
Jeff:
Yeah. Well, ‘cos the doctor… They had these interviews with doctors where they’re all mad at 23andMe because they’re like, “Patients just get all this information and they don’t know what to do with it. And they just come in and drive us crazy.”
Casey:
Oh, man. Oh, goddamn.
Jeff:
And you’re like, “Are you fucking kidding me?” Goddamn cunts. You’re afraid of your patients being knowledgeable? You shouldn’t be a doctor. That makes me crazy.
Casey:
The doctor situation abysmal.
Jeff:
Yes, you’ve been dealing with some doctor situations…
Casey:
I’ve been dealing with that for a while. So what I have basically determined is that I find this out… I don’t know why I don’t learn this lesson just permanently once across all things because I’ve even said it before which is, like, the 80-20 rule (and it’s really more like a 95-5 rule or something at this point) applies to all professions.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So, you know that most programmers, you would not hire to program your VCR, right? They are just not worth even dealing with in any way.
Jeff:
Yeah. First of, you need the programming VCR factory. So we have to start with that.
Casey:
So if you have… Yes, exactly. Singleton, right, yeah… What you need to do…
Jeff:
There are VCR’s everywhere in here.
Casey:
Not begin, not equal to [ dot end ] and then you just iterate over all the possible times and pick the right one up. So basically the problem is…
Jeff:
“Why does it say it’s 55 o’clock?” Well, it’s not done yet.
Casey:
Well, sometimes it says 55 o’clock, yeah. It might work okay but your alarm clock code would be, like, you know, 128K of C code. Anyway, so the point is that that sort of mentality that you go to the doctor and this person knows what they’re talking about, it’s wrong. It’s wrong in the same way that most people who service your car don’t know how to fix it, that most people who program your computer don’t really know how to program it. And so, basically, if you have anything other than what a kneejerk reaction would do, then most doctors are not gonna be able to help you. Like, most doctors do not know how to diagnose an actual tricky problem…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
The same way most programmers, if you gave them a very hard bug, will never find it.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
They just have no idea what’s going on. And what they’ll do is they’ll keep changing the code until maybe it sort of starts working. Exactly the same thing the doctors will do. So it’s really a problem because basically, it means that the time that you really need a doctor the most, the time that a doctor should be most valuable compared to Google…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
You know, just searching what my symptom is… It’s like, “Oh, you have the flu. Okay.” You know, whatever.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
The time that they would be most useful to you, they are useless to you which is figuring out what is wrong with you.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And it’s really maddening because you basically have no choice but to become a medical expert on your problem if you want to make any progress on it…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Because the information exists. We do know a lot more than your doctor will be able to diagnose unless he’s super awesome at his job. And you know, if you’re lucky enough to have a doctor who’s super awesome at his job, holy cow, man. You are in great shape. But most people, including me, don’t have that luxury. They don’t have the luxury of having someone that they can go to and they’re like, “Ah, okay.”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And so, yeah. It’s really, really frustrating. And I feel like it kind of ties into… I feel like lately there’s so much of a thing about healthcare here, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And there’s tons of problems with healthcare here. And some of them have been really [ trivially ] fixed in other places by going the single-payer healthcare, you know, more government control on it. So, you know, recently I was in Japan where an MRI cost $200 off the street. So that is the non-subsidized price.
Jeff:
Dude, I can beat that in New York.
Casey:
No, you can’t.
Jeff:
Oh, I can beat that in New York.
Casey:
What are you talking about.
Jeff:
In New York… I’ve never seen this anywhere else… In New York, they have these places.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
They’re called standup MRI’s.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
$37.
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
I don’t believe you.
Jeff:
That what… If you go into New York now…
Casey:
I don’t believe you.
Jeff:
It’s not going to do any good action. It’s probably the shittiest, you’re getting crazy radiated and all that other nonsense.
Casey:
It’s an MRI. It’s not radiated.
Jeff:
It’s that magnetic one?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
That’s the M?
Casey:
I’m trusting you less that you are telling me this and that you don’t know what an MRI is.
Jeff:
Dude, it is this crazy, sketchiest place. It’s like… We walked by one and I’m like, “I have to go check this out.”
Casey:
Did you go?
Jeff:
I did not go and get one because I’m like, “I’m not trusting anything going on at this place.”
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
The dude looks like… He’s dressed like the guy in the deli.
Casey:
What are you talking about?
Jeff:
He was wearing a white apron, not a smock. He was wearing an apron.
Casey:
Now, mind you, for an MRI, the only requirement on your clothing is that it be non-magnetic.
Jeff:
Right. It’s true. But an apron is… Can we just say medical care does not need to be done in an apron.
Casey:
In an apron… I agree that that is odd.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
But I’m just trying to understand… So you go to this place.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
They actually have a standing MRI, which is rare.
Jeff:
They did not let me… I did not go into the thing…
Casey:
You did not see…
Jeff:
I just went into the little entry… ‘Cos it’s as big as a… It’s the smallest… It’s like that little glass thing right there. It’s about that big.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Like, 10 by 10.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
It’s just a shit hole.
Casey:
And what do they MRI in the standing MRI?
Jeff:
I have no idea because I’d never get into the machine.
Casey:
Okay. Alright.
Jeff:
But they have a little… You know those charts where they’re like, “Here’s where…” Like the massage people, they like, rub your feet and you get like…
Casey:
Oh, trigger points?
Jeff:
Yeah. So they have this…
Casey:
I can’t remember what they’re called.
Jeff:
And it’s all wrinkley… It’s tacked on the wall.
Casey:
What does that have to do with an MRI?
Jeff:
No idea. This is what they decorated their…
Casey:
Are you sure this is an MRI…
Jeff:
It’s an MRI place. I mean, they said standup MRI. Then they have…
Casey:
But do you know that they actually do magnetic resonance imaging as opposed to MRI meaning something else?
Jeff:
All they said is standup MRI…
Casey:
Is this a 400 pound MRI? That’s what I want to know.
Jeff:
No, no, wait. Let me finish.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
They have the little pressure point thing. They have a National Geographic map of something that came in one of the National Graphic…
Casey:
This is not an MRI place.
Jeff:
Wait. Then, they have 3 images that look like what you get.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And then they’ve written in red ink with a marker…
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
37, 87, and 119.
Casey:
No, You are shitting me.
Jeff:
And I assumed that was higher resolution or something…
Casey:
It was a pricelist… It could have been where. It could have been what [inaudible 24:25]
Jeff:
Oh, I hadn’t thought of that.
Casey:
One of the things about MRI’s is depending on what part of the body you’re MRI-ing, you do different kinds of scans, right? So it’s different densities and different ways of doing the scan.
Jeff:
Right. I have a couple MRI’s they did of me but they’re very blurry compared to CT-scans which seem like they’re just magic.
Casey:
Yeah, so the reason for that is because CT-scans are basically photographs. CT-scans are a photograph that is taken sort of like… You imagine it’s film, right? You could think of it as that although nowadays, they do it electronically so you don’t need the film. They actually use sensors so that you don’t have to actually develop a fucking, you know, negative.
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
But you can imagine she’s like, “We’re basically shooting the equivalent of light through this thing and capturing what goes to the other side on to a plate.”
Jeff:
But it gives a 2D of you sliced… What is this? Sagitally, this way?
Casey:
So an x-ray or rather, I should say fluoroscopy, is basically when you just do a photograph like taking a picture with a camera. A CT-scan is that but now I do it radially. So I take it multiple times around the organ.
Jeff:
Oh, I see. That’s like those…
Casey:
So I can basically reproduce… Yeah, that’s why you here these things spin around because it is spinning around.
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
An MRI is pure fucking black magic. So it is not at all easy to understand. A CT-scan is just a photograph of shit that’s shot through your body. Some of that got absorbed by the body or scattered and we just see what went through…
Jeff:
I see. And then it does some weird alpha blend based on…
Casey:
So it’s basically telling you the density… It’s a density. No, there’s no alpha blend. It’s a density.
Jeff:
Well, when you get the final picture, it is a 2D…
Casey:
Yeah, it does… Well, okay. It does reconstruction for the CT part.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
But the regular fluoroscopy is just one shot, right?
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
But MRI’s are crazy town. They are basically inducing a massively strong magnetic field, right? And when they induce this field, it causes the atoms in your body to be disturbed at different amounts.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
So they are basically reading out, with passive collectors, changes in the magnetic field induced by this. It’s fucking crazy. At some point, I’d love to go learn how they really work, like deep down. But I saw a brief presentation on it. I was like, “This is fucking crazy,” because they don’t… It’s so non-intrusive in some sense.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
It’s basically just… It’s all using just a magnetic field to tweak the shit although I suppose so is the microwave but, you know…
Jeff:
It’s crazy. They have a… So Dave’s brother is… I think he does nuclear medicine so he does like…
Casey:
Nuclear, but yes…
Jeff:
Yeah, well, that’s how he talked.
Casey:
Don’t say it that way. Don’t George Bush the word “nuclear”. How did you say it?
Jeff:
[inaudible 27:18]
Casey:
Yes, it’s true. Okay, keep going.
Jeff:
Anyway, so he designs treatment plans for people who are gonna have radiation therapy, like how they…
Casey:
Oh, so he’s a dossimetrist?
Jeff:
Yeah, so it’s like, how you figure out the wave patterns and how we’re gonna shoot through this so we don’t… All that kind of stuff…
Casey:
Yes, that is called a dossimetrist.
Jeff:
But he was talking about the fact that now they have to recapture all of their… Is it helium? I guess it’s helium, for the electromagnets? Or is it…
Casey:
I have no idea. ‘Cos they’re running out?
Jeff:
They’re running out so they recache with these great big… They’re just balloons, right? Because it’s liquid when they use it in the super magnet…
Casey:
And they put it [ into the balloon that’s ] sent back to a professor?
Jeff:
And then it goes back into this huge thing and then it gets all squished down to a very tiny bit of thing because they have to do it. And they have to… It also gets…
Casey:
But why do they need… What do magnets have to do with cancer treatment? That’s radiation.
Jeff:
The MRI machine runs on super…
Casey:
So this is for MRI? It’s not for the cancer treatment? It has nothing to do with what he’s actually doing directly?
Jeff:
Yeah, I think there’s actually also a… The MRI machines are not the only machines in medicine anymore right now. I think there are more than that. But in this particular case, it was MRI machines.
Casey:
Okay, that he was using for some purpose.
Jeff:
Yeah. Liquid… Yeah.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
They use the crazy super magnet…
Casey:
Getting back to what I was saying …
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
I don’t know if I believe that there is a $37 MRI…
Jeff:
I’ll send you… You know what, I’ll do this. I’m going to New York on Thursday.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
I will make… I will go get…
Casey:
Don’t… You don’t need to do that.
Jeff:
I will do it for the Jeff & Casey Show.
Casey:
Dude, go 1% on this and pay a homeless man to go get the MRI, alright?
Jeff:
Oh…
Casey:
Maybe we should get some data out of it, too. Maybe he has, you know, prostate cancer or something and they’ll find it. I don’t know. Anyway, point being there’s a bunch of things that you can fix just by not making this so retarded. Like an MRI in Seattle costs, like, $2,700, right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s absurd.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
But the other thing that I realized that cost a ton of money in the healthcare system is the fact that nobody knows what’s wrong with you. So you end up having tons of crap…
Jeff:
Go over and over and over…
Casey:
Like, if you actually had a system set up to try to refine that process so we really had… Every time someone comes to the doctor, we check every single fucking last thing, every symptom, every test they have, we put that all together so we have the best possible diagnostics… That would save so much money because the first time someone comes in, you’d just be like, “You’ve got X. Done.” Right?
Jeff:
Or you’ve got 3 things instead of 500.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Well, I will say… You’ve seen that study they did of… It was basically the 20 questions thing…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
But for medicine. And it always did better than the average doctor. And because it’s not only that…
Casey:
Oh, yeah. Computers have been outperforming doctors forever but we still don’t use them.
Jeff:
Yeah, because it’s a huge liability problem of when it doesn’t catch something. All of a sudden, there is gonna be… But that’s the reason apparently they haven’t put them into use because they are just… Because not only do they do the thing… Like, a good diagnostician usually… I have a friend that had a story where he was… Grew up in London and he was sick all the time. He had a very strange gait, all of this. He had a hard time walking.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Like, up stairs, he’d almost crawl like it was all this…
Casey:
Whoa.
Jeff:
And he just accepted it. The doctors in Britain just didn’t diagnose it. And the guy was gay and this was in the 60’s.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So they were just like…
Casey:
It’s a gay thing.
Jeff:
They just kind of almost blamed it on that.
Casey:
Great Britain had a really gay problem. They had a huge gay problem.
Jeff:
Everybody did. I mean, we can’t really…
Casey:
No, but there’s was real bad.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It was illegal…
Jeff:
Well, it’s illegal here in some states still. So, like…
Casey:
I don’t think it was the act was illegal. It’s illegal just to be…
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
Maybe that’s wrong. I feel like it was very, very illegal.
Jeff:
I don’t think they were any worse but… And in fact, there was at least the… It was more in the open in some sense. And he was a guy in the theater so they just kind of never did it.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Finally, he had a friend who lived here in New York and said, “Why don’t you come and visit me?” And they went to the doctor and the doctor just looked at him and said, “You have [inaudible 31:49] like, a form of [inaudible 31:50]” like, instantly. And that… If you’re lucky, you get a diagnostician that seen what you have before in some weird thing and then you get it. But anything unusual, the computer is gonna win because it doesn’t have any… It doesn’t have any pre-conceived notions.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And it will ask you the same questions 20 times in a way that’s slightly different to get the truth instead of something. And people tell the truth to a computer more than they tell it to a human being.
Casey:
That’s true. Well, there’s a problem…
Jeff:
So there’s a lot of wins and some bad stuff…
Casey:
There’s some problems with it…
Jeff:
And there’s definitely some things of, like, you’re gonna ask questions that a person can’t really answer sometimes.
Casey:
And observationally, it’s a bit of a problem. Like, you want the computer system to be able to look at you. Are you nervous? Are you shaking? Are you this, that, and everything?
Jeff:
Well, I just think the computer should…
Casey:
So you’re gonna need a physical exam person, as well.
Jeff:
Yeah. Well, I just feel like the system should be you go in and answer 100 questions.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
You go in and meet with a doctor or even a nurse or something who examines you, kind of sees your stuff.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
They answer a hundred questions.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
In the same way. And then it’s like, “Alright, here’s what we’re thinking we should look at…” Unless you just happen to have the magical country doctor who’s seen everything that you’re going to get in your funny little town.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And then you’re golden. But that’s not always the case.
Casey:
Yes. I would love to know… At least personally, for me, I would say the cast majority of money that I have spent or had spent on my behalf by an insurance company in the medical system has been incorrect meaning most of the things that I was told to do or things that were done because they were like, “We need to do X,” were not… After I went and actually educated myself on it, I was like, “This is really stupid. You would never make this decision. There’s no way,” right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
You’re just like, not at all true.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So I feel like it’s just one of those situations…
Jeff:
But it’s a funny thing of, like, as you learn… That’s something doctors don’t want you to do. They feel like it’s non-productive for the patient to educate themselves.
Casey:
Is that true, though? I don’t know if that’s true of doctors in general. That may be true of some doctors.
Jeff:
I don’t know if it’s true of doctors in general but I will say that there is an antagonistic relationship to you questioning the process.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like, as you go through it, that is your difficult patient. You’re not like…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
But if you read… When you read, so many people end up with these crazy diseases and eventually get found, it’s almost always the people who don’t accept…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like, just keep fighting the whole time.
Casey:
Right, exactly.
Jeff:
You don’t just simply start, like, “Oh, no. I’m just gonna live with this. The doctors say it’s nothing.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It’s those people that are usually the ones that… “Oh, no. It turns out I had this crazy thing,” and yeah…
Casey:
But this is why I…
Jeff:
But this is… All the point of the matter, all of this, is 23andMe is bullshit.
Casey:
I can see why you would say 23andMe is bullshit. I have never used it myself but I do think that, possibly, it is the case of a commercial service that is a little too far ahead of what they are practically ready to do at scale for a reasonable cost, right?
Jeff:
Well, I would say this. I think they spent all their money on stupid shit like…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
The website is crazy, like HTML5, things slide in with percentages. And it’s got animate and things roll up and you’re like, you know, “You’re in the 50% of Aborigines. That means you’re the same as Meryl Streep.” And then you’re like… And then you get fucked because you answer all these questions initially…
Casey:
What questions?
Jeff:
Like, “Are you willing to let us keep a sample on for when we improve? Are you willing to share your data for medical research?” And you’re like, “Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And there’s a whole shit ton of these questions.
Casey:
And then you get framed for murder…
Jeff:
Well, no. The framed for murder thing is a whole other situation but the thing that I got was now all of a sudden, these fucking losers are like, “Your 8th cousin wants to friend you. Would you like to let him see your email?” And I’m like, “Who says yes to that ever?” Is there anybody that ever wants to know from their 7th cousin? No.
Casey:
7th cousin is so far removed from you. That could be anybody.
Jeff:
I would feel like…
Casey:
Like anyone in the US is your 7th cousin, aren’t they? That’s so far out…
Jeff:
Yeah, it’s nuts. And they’re always like, “Hey, what famous people have you descended from?” And then they’re like, King something. I’m like, “He was born…” He had 8 kids and he was nobility so we’re probably all, like, 2 or 3% him at this point.
Casey:
I like how you’re King something and you don’t know who the king was.
Jeff:
Because I don’t give a fuck. The whole thing… There wasn’t one bit of information. Oh, and then they have this section where you’re like, you have to agree to even read this section.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Because the people, they had some problems with the lady who… You know the breast cancer marker where if you have this marker, you’re very likely to get… And if you get found with that marker, women will just get preemptively…
Casey:
Mastectomy.
Jeff:
A mastectomy.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
So that’s one of the things they test for. And apparently, it’s not always right.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And that’s one of the things, the doctors are like, “Oh, they’re telling us they want to get mastectomies,” and then they have to… They’re like, “No.” And they exp--… And get tested better and all that. All these are false positives that could happen if you’re from your doctor anyways.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
So I’m like, “That’s a shitty answer.” However, because of that scare, they have a section of things that they test for now that you have to say you have to agree… You have to…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Like, “Hey, by the way, if you want genetic counseling after we reveal this answer…”
Casey:
Genetic counseling?
Jeff:
They have this whole thing.
Casey:
Okay. Alright.
Jeff:
Yes and no question… And so that makes you think…
Casey:
Hold on. What is genetic counseling, though? Is that, like, we sit down in a room with a support group and I’m like, “Hey, I found out that I’ve got fucked-uppingtons disease,” or whatever.
Jeff:
Yeah, I think it is that kind of thing that if you want to talk to somebody, if you have something like Huntington’s that’s just a time bomb to when it starts expressing itself…
Casey:
Right. Okay.
Jeff:
But this is even for smaller things.
Casey:
Does that help? I would wonder about that. Since I’ve had medical problems lately, I totally wonder, does it help to have counseling? Because I assume it wouldn’t help at all.
Jeff:
No. I think counseling…
Casey:
I don’t even want to talk about it, you know, or whatever…
Jeff:
Yes. I think counseling, in general, and therapy is an actively good thing.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
For most people.
Casey:
So you think it would help?
Jeff:
Yes, I think it would help.
Casey:
Alright. You just talk it out?
Jeff:
You talk it out.
Casey:
You talk it out. You get a little group hug and off it goes?
Jeff:
But I don’t know if it’s, like… It doesn’t necessarily mean you’re all in a group together. It might mean 1-on-1.
Casey:
Oh, okay.
Jeff:
I assume in this case, they just have someone call you up who’s following a script and then whatever. In any case…
Casey:
Okay. “How does that make you feel?” “Well, it makes me feel like I’m getting fucking Huntington’s Disease. How do you think it makes me feel?”
Jeff:
“What is this weird accent you have? Goddamn it!”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Anyway, the thing that I was gonna say about this was it’s this whole section where you have to answer this question…
Casey:
I just thought of something…
Jeff:
Wait.
Casey:
Dude, wait. Tourette’s support group. That…
Jeff:
Well, they have that.
Casey:
That would be…
Jeff:
I saw a show about a guy…
Casey:
The best fucking thing to watch, though. Tourette’s… Because everyone’s just fucking getting hell in the middle of it all the time. It would be awesome.
Jeff:
There was one… There was a documentary about a kid who had Tourette’s.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And then he went to a support group. And they’re all just sitting… Because they don’t always swear but they’re always twitchy…
Casey:
It’s better if they swear.
Jeff:
Yes. Anyway, so what I was gonna say is they have this section where you have to answer this section to get the answer to every single one of these 10 things.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
You have to… And so you think…
Casey:
It’s gonna be some serious shit coming down…
Jeff:
“Oh, fuck. This is what I’ve got. Oh, here we go. Here’s the shitty stuff.” Every one is like, “You have a 0.01% chance higher than…” It’s not even 1% higher chance.
Casey:
Right. It’s fractional.
Jeff:
So what they’ve done is their system is like if it’s greater than zero, not greater than 10 or 20 but if it’s anything greater than zero, the questions come up. But that gives you this crazy panic where you’re just like… It’s like a jack-in-the-box where you’re like, alright, “Yes, 0.01%.”
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And then you click down through there, expecting one to be like…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And I expected one of those to be, “Hey, you have this particular genetic disease.”
Casey:
But you didn’t…
Jeff:
I didn’t. Every single one of them was, like…
Casey:
This is the problem, too, because now you know if you have a serious disease, it didn’t find it. Now you’re like, “What other serious disease do I have they didn’t find?
Jeff:
Oh, exactly. It is completely useless.
Casey:
It was supposed to be reassuring me, you know…
Jeff:
I’m just saying… Like, you’re supposed to be finding slight anomalies and I’m missing 10,000 base pairs.
Casey:
Right. Yeah.
Jeff:
This is like going into the doctor and your arm is missing and he starts like, “Let’s get your weight.” And they’re like, “You seem to have lost some weight lately.” And I’m like, “Yeah, my arms gone.” It’s completely useless.
Casey:
No, it’s not. It’s nothing like that. It’s more like if you went to the doctor with no arm, right, and you were like, “Can you just check me out to see if there’s anything wrong with me at all?” And they’re like…
Jeff:
“It looks fine.”
Casey:
No. “It looks like maybe your hip’s a little…” Right? That’s what it was sort of doing, just ignoring the arm altogether.
Jeff:
It was completely useless. I like the fact that modern medical testing has more about social media and…
Casey:
Oh, totally.
Jeff:
And HTML5 than it does about fucking…
Casey:
Well, those things, it’s like, “Are you sure you want to know about this? It’s really serious.” [ And that’s when it’s ] like Meryl Streep. Right? That’s when the Meryl Streep comes up. It’s like, “We didn’t want you to get too excited if you weren’t prepared for the Meryl Streep news.”
Jeff:
It’s bullshit. I don’t remember how we got on to this topic. What was 23andMe [inaudible 41:52]
Casey:
Hamish Tod. Semen testing, yeah.
Jeff:
Yes. But… Oh, we were talking initially about the semen testing.
Casey:
Oh, I was thinking I don’t how… I was actually looking forward to getting off-topic, to be sure. But the actual thought that I had that had instigated it and why I was asking about that in the 1st place was because I realized I don’t know what they mean when they say, “We’re going to DNA the body.”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Because I know you’re gonna need some sample that you’re going to then try to get the DNA out of. I don’t know what that process looks like. What do you take? Do you take scrapings of the mouth? A hair follicle? What do you use? I don’t know.
Jeff:
You spit… You have to spit…
Casey:
Dead guy doesn’t.
Jeff:
Oh, you’re saying for the dude 6 feet under?
Casey:
Yeah. What do they do? What do they take off? And what do they actually do to [inaudible 42:43] because it’s not like…
Jeff:
I assume it’s just hair ‘cos that’s…
Casey:
Just hair? Because I’m just interested to know what the actual… Like, currently today, what is the actual practice that you use? And I don’t know.
Jeff:
Yeah, I assume it’s…
Casey:
It’s purely curiosity on my part.
Jeff:
I thought it was all… Yeah, I’m sure there’s better and worse cells to do but once you’re dead, you’re all dead. So you might as well take the ones that are a little bit… Meant to be like that… That are already dead, the hair is ready to go.
Casey:
And I should bring up at this point while we’re on the subject of genetic testing and determining genes and that sort of stuff that one time, I remember I was talking to some [inaudible 43:19] people. And apparently, they had talked… I don’t really know why but they had talked with the U-Dub at one point.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
They talked with some professors at U-Dub who were doing genetic stuff. And basically… Actually, it’s a fairly interesting problem if you think about it. If you have a genetic database…
Jeff:
You know the size of everybody’s hats. You just automatically…
Casey:
This is why I bring it up. This is actually why I was bringing it up because I wonder… The thought [inaudible 43:44]
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So you have this genetic database. Let’s say we collect enough data where we’ve got the spin down of everyone’s DNA in the sample set — 10,000… I don’t know how many. A large sample of people, let’s say. We’ve got the spin down of their DNA and we know what they had at autopsy or whatever. We know they’ve got Huntington’s Disease or whatever you were talking about before. We know which ones of them have that. How do we go about determining which genes are implicated in these and which aren’t.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Because you’ve got this huge pattern matching problem basically, right? You’ve got all these huge sets of data and you now need to go, “Okay, which of these,” right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And so, they had brought this up because they were talking to them about that or whatever. And I couldn’t help but think what it would be… Like steam genetics or whatever it was, it just immediately filled my head with this sort of thing where they were like…
Jeff:
Right. Well, first of, your [ steam ] genetic code is wicked long. It’s so many letters.
Casey:
Exactly.
Jeff:
It’s like you’re typing that stupid thing in 5 letters at a time…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Tab. Tab.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
You’re gonna be really [inaudible 44:53]
Casey:
Yes, I assume that is the case. And I assume that you can’t access any of your proteins unless you’re signed in or something, right?
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
You have to just use the proteins that you’ve already synthesized…
Jeff:
Achievement [inaudible 45:07]
Casey:
Until you’ve…
Jeff:
Good job.
Casey:
You could do [inaudible 45:11] like, you could have a crate filled with some stuff you need like thyroxin, like thyroid hormone or something. And it’s like…
Jeff:
If you have the medicine…
Casey:
You have to… It might thyroid hormone. We don’t know. But you need some. And so, the question is do you pay to unlock that crate or don’t you? The hats is definitely true. That’s a nice part because I feel like with the genetic information, they would know which hats you are going to like.
Jeff:
Well, first of…
Casey:
We wouldn’t even show you hats that we know you’re predisposed… That you wouldn’t wear.
Jeff:
Yeah, well, I mean, we can tell if you’re Eastern European, Western European…
Casey:
Right, right.
Jeff:
If we’re gonna go for more of a sombrero or a fez or… Yeah, that kind of…
Casey:
Clearly. Ethnic hat selection for you. That’s totally true.
Jeff:
Yeah, I mean, the… I mean, you worked with the U-Dub on the protein folding thing for a while right?
Casey:
Ah, yes, yes. Fold it.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Is that still going? Do they still…
Casey:
So, I don’t really know what ended up happening with that. They made a big splash…
Jeff:
They came out on the PS2.
Casey:
It was very well received, news-wise, because it’s a good story.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Like, gamers look for proteins to fight aids or whatever, right? But it always seemed like a pretty ill-conceived idea to me at the time, honestly. I don’t know what the point of it is. And I think it basically had about as much effect as I thought which was not… Because I just don’t see… It’s not an interesting human problem. And the first thing I really wanted to do when they were saying, “We’re having trouble folding [inaudible 46:37]” I’m like, “We could write a solver for this. I’m pretty confident I know how we could make this happen really quickly.” I’m like, “It sounds like you guys are doing this in a really, really bad way.” But that was not who the people who I happened to know what they were doing… They felt like humans would kind of know how to make the big folds…
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
More expediently. The whole thing is really wrong. They went at it so wrong mentally, I was like… You know, it just didn’t… I don’t want to get into that. The point being, I was like, “I really feel like… If I wanted to go do something fun for humanity, I would probably go try to…” Because I felt like it was really bad, the stuff they were doing. But the problem with that is I feel like [inaudible 47:22] I think they’re gonna get it eventually, like I feel like they can’t not get it…
Jeff:
I don’t think they’re ever gonna, for some reason.
Casey:
Serious?
Jeff:
Because every time I read about this stuff, they’re like, “Hey all that shit we thought was junk, that’s like…”
Casey:
This is protein folding. It has nothing to do…
Jeff:
Right. That’s true. Right. I’m talking about, in our DNA, what expresses what like, what turns into what, because I don’t think it’s like, “This implies this.”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
It’s like, this plus this thing, half a billion over…
Casey:
Yeah, yeah, yeah…
Jeff:
And they’re like, “All the junk stuff that we thought was junk is not junk. It’s like, it prevents it from scissoring it away. It won’t be fucked up.” It’s like, that is so multidimensional. I’m like, “Oh, no. This one goes backwards. This one goes forwards. This one overlaps in this way. This one rotates…” And like, I don’t think we get that. I think we get gross, silly marker stuff…
Casey:
Yeah, that’s true. I mean…
Jeff:
But everything else is gonna be like, “No, this is so beyond…” ‘Cos it’s also… All that data is there for your entire life’s worth of shit. So it’s like, you have a long time… You have a lot of information to spread.
Casey:
So do you think they’ll never have the simulatable human, basically? You think that’s never gonna happen?
Jeff:
Oh, absolutely not. No.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Yeah, no.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
That’s like the retards at IBM that are like, “What we’ve done here is…”
Casey:
Is that the voice they use? Is that the voice?
Jeff:
“We made a neuron. And so then, what we did is we made a whole bunch. And so, by 2020, we’ll have enough computing power to have all these neurons.” And you’re like… That’s just like saying that you have the wiring but none of the… Like they’ve wired it all up. They’ve made all the neurons. And they’d not programmed the neurons to do… They just think some magic’s gonna happen once there’s that many neurons sitting there in stasis…
Casey:
Well, we…
Jeff:
That’s, like, gonna start vibrating somehow or I don’t know what… There’s a shot at like a Frankenstein.
Casey:
But the weird thing about that, too, is that like, “You know what, we could also just go, ‘Fuck,’ and make that tomorrow. We have a way…” If we want a big mass of neurons that sit around, we’ve got the technology. It’s called sex organs. It’s called copulation.
Jeff:
It’s called grandpa’s jugs. It’s grandpa’s jugs. We take grandpa’s jugs and we have so many brains.
Casey:
I feel like, at some level, you have to be able to write a grant for that. Like, you could write a grant where somebody funds you to fuck. Like basically, you wrote it in such a way that it sounded like you were producing a neuron trait, like a thing, but it was actually just you had a baby.
Jeff:
Right. Well, that’s… The whole way people think about intelligence and computers is so odd anyway.
Casey:
You know what, we’re at 49 minutes and I feel like if we’re gonna go into that… ‘Cos I believe…
Jeff:
Because I want to talk a little about Watson because I have some…
Casey:
Okay, let’s say that maybe Watson is gonna be a topic for the next…
Jeff:
Okay. For the future…
Casey:
For the future…
Jeff:
Well, let’s say a future one ‘cos we have, like, 20 things. You asked for topics. We got a lot of them.
Casey:
We have a lot of them.
Jeff:
But people do send us topics because they are fun to read anyway.
Casey:
Well, Hamish Tod.
Jeff:
Thank you, Hamish.
Casey:
Thank you for writing in that one. We hope that we covered it to your satisfaction but we won’t know until we air this…
Jeff:
Hamish is kind of… It’s kind of a word I would use, in general.
Casey:
To mean something else?
Jeff:
Yeah. Well, I’d be like, “This food tastes a little hammish.”
Casey:
But that’s hammish, not Hamish.
Jeff:
I know. I’m just saying that’s kind of what I would say about something. So, thank you, Hamish.
Casey:
This baloney is kind of hammish?
Jeff:
Uh-huh, like something…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
“I think there’s ham in these eggs. It’s a little hammish.”
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
Yeah. I’d probably say hammage, not hammish but anyway…
Casey:
Okay, glad that we clarified that.
Jeff:
Alright. Thank you, though.
Casey:
Yes, thank you very much. And we will catch you guys next week…
Jeff:
On another exciting episode.
Casey:
On another exciting Jeff & Casey episode. You can always Tweet us, if you would like, or send an email to I guess Podcast@JeffAndCaseyShow.com.
Jeff:
That’s right. Thanks, everybody.
Casey:
Thanks.
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casey muratori
the jeff and casey show - season 4 - episode 3
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