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The Technician
No Imperfections Noted
The Jeff and Casey Show
Jeff and Casey Time
Casey Muratori
Seattle, WA
The Ethics of Robot Cats Caring for the Elderly: Will They Have Lasers?
Original air date: October 25th, 2009
Topics. Israel. Disco. Graftings. Soviet research. Depression. Geisha. Gamers. Clowns. Goats. Listener dreams. Addiction. Mermaids. Robotic cats. Sex. Ambien.
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Transcript
Jeff:
Hey everybody, welcome to the “Jeff and Casey Show.” This is part five of our megacast, and we’re going to jump right into it. . .
Casey:
The next one is from Juan.
Jeff:
Juan, OK. Haven’t heard from Juan in a while.
Casey:
We haven’t heard from Juan in a while. It’s good to hear from Juan. Now Juan is sending in a link because he knows that you had some fucked up experiences on Ambien. You went Facebooking on Ambien and you said the pictures started out, weird shit happened.
Jeff:
Yeah. Yes.
Casey:
So it was bad. So here it says, he’s got a link to a news article called “Ambien Sex.” Well I guess it isn’t really a news article. It’s more like a forum.
Jeff:
It’s a support group.
Casey:
Yes. . . .called “Ambien Sex.” And it’s got some things in here like: “Hi, my wife started taking Ambien recently. She would take it prior to bed. But after after 15, 20, she’d want to make love. The problem is, not on my side, she would do things that she would never do while not on it, and then ask in the morning what we did. I had no idea about the amnesia of Ambien until this site. Is this common for women?”
Jeff:
And there’s like 500 responses.
Casey:
All the rest of them are like, “I didn’t know it has this effect. Where can I get it?” And it’s got the email address. That’s literally the next reply. Right? “I had the same type of thing happen to me when I was on Ambien. My girlfriend said I would wake up in the middle of the night and act strange, or have a weird conversation with myself for 5 to 10 minutes, and then I would fall back to sleep. I wouldn’t remember a thing in the morning. We decided to find something a bit safer, and found melatonin. It’s a good supplement. It’s not quite as powerful as the prescription meds, but you also have to worry about the negative side effects,” etc., etc.
Jeff:
There were a bunch where they were like, “My husband loves me to take Ambien, and I don’t know about it because I’m a Christian, and I’m uncomfortable with what happens when I’m on Ambien.”
Casey:
So something like, “My wife is a very conservative southern lady. I am here to tell you the wildest, best, most memorable sex was when she was on Ambien. Unfortunately, I think that a tolerance develops. The situation only happened two or three times. She ultimately had to stop taking it because it caused severe depression.”
Jeff:
God dammit!
Casey:
Can you talk about something like that, Jeff?
Jeff:
It’s nuts, it’s nuts. So Ambien is some freaky shit, right?
Casey:
Now how is this drug legal? I guess because it doesn’t kill you, it’s fine?
Jeff:
And it’s not super-habit forming. For a sleep aid, that’s the critical thing that they always had.
Casey:
So the fact that you do some fucked up shit on it is fine?
Jeff:
It’s supposed to be under review for all these weird things. Because people get in their car and drive. They do crazy shit.
Casey:
OK.
Jeff:
No. I don’t get it because it just knocks you completely out.
Casey:
So for all we know. . .now if I can go back and reconstruct the night that you went on this Facebook bender.
Jeff:
It wasn’t a bender!
Casey:
For all we know, this was like a Tyler Durden thing. Like, you hooked up with some hoodies on the Facebook chat, or whatever. You went out, had ridiculous donkey-cow mouth sex, or whatever the fuck happened. Right?
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
You were on trial, and your ex-girlfriend and all this shit. And then you came back home and woke up in the morning. And you were like, “Huh, I guess I’ll go to RAD and do some programming.”
Jeff:
Do some work. . .
Casey:
Yeah, exactly. For all you know, that’s what happened, right?
Jeff:
No, that’s not what happened.
Casey:
The first rule about Ambien is you do not talk about Ambien.
Jeff:
No, it is some crazy stuff. Watch out on Ambien.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Break the pills in halves or fourths until you know what’s going on.
Casey:
Yes. Well thank you, Juan, for letting Jeff know that he may have had sex with a number of people.
Jeff:
No. That’s just it. My Ambien trip is going to be Facebook. I didn’t have anything good happen on my Ambien. . .
Casey:
You would know, that’s my point. You have no idea what happened. You probably can’t remember, because that’s part of the side effects.
Jeff:
Oh, god dammit.
Casey:
You maybe had wild sex with one of the 92-year-old women in your apartment complex. For all you know.
Jeff:
No. Stop it. No.
Casey:
And she’s happy, and you can’t remember.
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
And that’s what happened at six in the morning, when she was up and ready to go.
Jeff:
Stop it.
Casey:
Now, the next one comes from Jeremy White, and he says he’s doing his part, presumably with this email, to prevent a future robot apocalypse from occurring. And he says, “Sorry if you’ve already got this one.” And he sent the link to. . .Jeff, I’m wondering if you can guess what he sent the link to?
Jeff:
Podcast? What are you talking about?
Casey:
See if you can guess. You can’t see the email, you’re across the room.
Jeff:
Singularity shit?
Casey:
Oh, come on, Jeff! If there’s one email robot related that we have gotten from every single listener who listens to the podcast, what was it?
Jeff:
Oh, Geisha?
Casey:
Yeah. It’s Robo-Geisha.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Sorry Jeremy, I hate to tell you we’ve already seen Robo-Geisha from a number of people.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And if that’s the worst that the Singularity Institute is going to send our way, I think we can probably handle it.
Jeff:
Yeah. I was in favor of most things that were going on in the Robot Geisha trailer. I wasn’t afraid of any of that.
Casey:
Me, neither. Geishas don’t frighten me, actually. I think they’re rather refined.
Jeff:
Well, they may be refined. I think the only one I didn’t like is the one that had blood coming out of its ass or something when they stabbed it. Do you remember that?
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
That was not the way it should go.
Casey:
Well the one thing I would say is there’s not a huge difference between Geisha and Clowned, right? In terms of, hey, they’ve got white face makeup on, and they’re creepy and whatever-the-fuck.
Jeff:
And you don’t fuck clowns. I hope not.
Casey:
Well. . . The clown fucks you.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I agree with that.
Jeff:
Sometimes it happens.
Casey:
I agree with the unidirectional statement that you made, but I think it doesn’t perhaps encompass the entire truth. All I’m saying is Geishas aren’t scary, and clowns are. Why?
Jeff:
I don’t know. The Geisha thing doesn’t do it for me. I know there’s a lot of people that groove on that, I just see. . .
Casey:
Yeah. But they’re not scary. Whether they’re attractive or not is another story.
Jeff:
No, they’re not scary.
Casey:
They’re not scary.
Jeff:
They’re wrapped up, worst cast. Their running speed is quite slow, they can only move their feet so fast.
Casey:
Whereas clowns have these huge shoes on.
Jeff:
Yeah, they’re like Air Jordan’s, or something. You never know with a clown.
Casey:
Yeah. Hi, Bingo!
Jeff:
Yeah. But with a Geisha, they have a top speed. So I’m not worried.
Casey:
OK. So anyway, thankfully, Jeremy White actually sent a bunch of actual text instead of just Robo Geisha. Because we’ve already seen Robo Geisha. He sent us a story.
Jeff:
OK.
Casey:
Now I don’t know what your opinion is on me reading it. It’s fairly long. Would you like me to read the story?
Jeff:
Is it a funny story?
Casey:
I don’t know, because we are doing these emails real-time.
Jeff:
OK.
Casey:
We can always edit it out?
Jeff:
Yeah. Tell the story.
Casey:
“As for the story, this is an odd one. If you don’t have time to read this, the last paragraph is the question. Of course if Jeff gets this, you might find other ideas inside the story. I’m banking that he’ll be too lazy to read through it, though.”
Jeff:
It’s probably true, because I did not read through it.
Casey:
“I had recently had a class in computer security which was taught by a consultant who openly told us at the beginning of the course that he was teaching partly because the classes counted towards his security certifications.” That sounds like a good start!
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
“The discussion about it during class left me thinking about where else this happens, but I kind of left that on the back burner. Just this weekend the whole notion resurfaced when I had a dream about it. In the dream, California had passed a law requiring game company owners to maintain some sort of license which could only be kept by teaching undergrad or grad level courses. A long story short, I found myself attending a class taught by Jeff due to said license law.” Now this story, we’re not cutting this. This already sounds fantastic, so far. I love the whole concept!
Jeff:
I’m not sure if I like my listeners dreaming about me.
Casey:
Well you would if they were 30-plus, apparently.
Jeff:
OK. Right.
Casey:
Anyway. “I’m not sure how I got there, since I go to class in Florida. But either way, Jeff proceeded to pass on his wisdom to our class about game programming. Of course, somehow, Casey was a TA.” That’s bullshit! “And the course devolved into just a discussion on good, no good. Our final project was supposed to be a huge study of a particular good, no-good topic, and my dream magically fast-forwarded to the due date. My team was presenting on commuters in California, and we had videotaped people asking them if they drove, and other details under the guise of a legitimate undergraduate study.” And I bet Jeff would say that it was. “But this in and of itself was not interesting enough. So we also managed to get people from Second Life who admitted to living in California, to testify about driving habits, as well as a forum, YouTube producers, and other Internet users who could verify they lived in California. The idea was to observe someone, question them, and ask ourselves if that person’s driving was either good or no good. We compiled all of data into a 10-minute video and discussion with Jeff butting in the whole time, usually clutching his face and telling us when to skip chapters of our presentation DVD.”
Jeff:
That sounds perfect!
Casey:
This dream is startlingly accurate to what would actually happen. . .
Jeff:
Yeah, this is probably really what happened.
Casey:
. . .except that I wouldn’t be a TA, I would be the dean. Now. . . “Our project won the highest grade, mostly because Jeff freaked on just about every interview, and of course Casey was left to do the grading since Jeff wouldn’t touch the video. I was sad when I woke up. Despite all of Jeff’s suffering, and watching Casey laughing at him the whole way through, for some reason the entire class was captivated and not laughing, seeming to treat Jeff’s opinion as sovereign and divinely inspired.”
Jeff:
Which it is.
Casey:
“I admit it was creepy during those moments.”
Jeff:
It is!
Casey:
“It was probably the single best way for Jeff to touch society,” so to speak.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I added the “so to speak” there. “Something that we all agreed, though not necessarily good or bad, or no good, would be supremely marketable and profoundly stimulating. I was also looking forward to the field study homework which involved espionage and a session of ”porn and pancakes“--the class took place in 2008, oddly enough. I wish I was making this up because it felt like such creative genius at the time. Still, it’s only as I type out this email that I realize it was just a horribly messed up dream, one that I had to share. The good, no-good question is: if Jeff had to get a certification, and it required any amount of teaching, but Jeff could make up whatever he construed to be a reasonable course load, would that be good or no good?”
Jeff:
OK. So what’s the good, no-good? Paraphrase that a little tighter, then.
Casey:
The paraphrase for the good, no-good, is, you are required to teach courses every year.
Jeff:
Like, for community service?
Casey:
For some reason. Community service, state law. In order to have a license to program, in order to run your company, whatever.
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
Some law requires you, compels you, to each a course every year.
Jeff:
I see. OK.
Casey:
Obviously I think his assumption here is you’re going to say that’s no good. So the additional element that he throws in is you are allowed to make up the course load, whatever you think you want.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Is that good or no good?
Jeff:
Oh yeah, that’s fine.
Casey:
OK.
Jeff:
But I would impart all kinds of knowledge. I think what’s interesting to me is he talked about how he had different Internet users, kinds of users.
Casey:
Yeah. Second Life and forums and YouTube producers.
Jeff:
Yeah, like that, and talked about how they were driving. Because I was immediately thinking of, you know, the Second Life guys would never get to their destination because the lag would be so bad on their freeway, they could never get to where they were going.
Casey:
Yeah. Well they just fly around, too.
Jeff:
Yeah. And then YouTube, they’d just be like road rage, screaming racial obscenities at each other out the window, full-on.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
No, I think. . .
Casey:
Well Jeff, what would your course be, what would your course be on? Or, would it just be called, “Good, No Good”, and every day is a lecture that is on something that is no good?
Jeff:
I think if I taught a class, it would be whatever I worked on this morning, so I do no prepping.
Casey:
No prep. You just come in and go, “So here’s what I was working on”?
Jeff:
I’d be just like, “You know what? Today we’re going to talk about Huffman trees. And tomorrow it’s about pornography.” Because that’s what I happened to be doing. I’d have no prep.
Casey:
Well first of all, if it was only about what you were doing that morning, then it would be about pornography every day.
Jeff:
No!
Casey:
Well since I’d have to fucking TA your stupid-shit course. . .
Jeff:
Yeah. You’d have to be creating the test and stuff.
Casey:
Exactly. I’m in a pretty awkward position.
Jeff:
You’d have to be rushing to catch up all the time.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
No, I actually don’t mind teaching people stuff. In fact, I told my brother I’d like to teach him programming because he’s good and logical, and stuff like that. He just never got into computers, early.
Casey:
Right, because you were always hogging the keyboard.
Jeff:
Probably because I was always stealing the Atari 800.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But in any case. Yeah, I don’t mind that.
Casey:
Well, thank you Jeremy for sending in that story.
Jeff:
Yes, that was a great story.
Casey:
That was quite a good story, actually, I rather enjoyed it. Except for the fact that I was a TA: that’s bullshit.
Jeff:
Stop it.
Casey:
So, let’s keep it in the family here, shall we?
Jeff:
OK.
Casey:
Let’s go up to Susan Nutori. . .
Jeff:
Oh, you’re mom.
Casey:
. . .my lovely mother, who sends us links from time to time.
Jeff:
She does.
Casey:
She sent an email titled “Shlomo Sees a Mermaid,” and it has a link.
Jeff:
OK.
Casey:
She says it’s much like “Horton Hears a Who!”
Jeff:
OK.
Casey:
And this is from wivb.com.
Jeff:
OK.
Casey:
And I’m not sure exactly what that is, but it is some kind of. . .I guess I can’t tell actually exactly where the site comes from. But it says: “Mermaid siting reported in Israel.”
Jeff:
OK.
Casey:
Right? Which is. . .
Jeff:
It’s a rough part of the world.
Casey:
It’s a rough part of the world. It says. . . Well. . .
Jeff:
Well, what immediately happened is they saw a mermaid, and then everyone said that’s my mermaid, no it’s my mermaid, no it’s my mermaid. “No, you get seven-tenths of the mermaid.”
Casey:
Yeah, exactly. They immediately start a crusade to go capture the mermaid. And the byline, which I guess says something about the quality of this news source, is, “Is it real, or just a hoax?” Hint: it’s not real.
Jeff:
Hoax. [indecipherable 14:24] but it is.
Casey:
It says the southwest has UFOs, Scotland has the Loch Ness monster. Now Israel has a mermaid?
Jeff:
I also like that he just said they have them.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
I mean this isn’t like a whole bunch of just fucked up human beings looking for attention. No, they’re there.
Casey:
Yes, exactly. Not like the people who are doing this podcast, for example.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
“LiveScience reports that locals and tourists are flocking to the town of Kuriaht Yom, hoping to catch a glimpse of a mermaid, who has been spotted doing a few tricks, and disappearing into the water.”
Jeff:
Well, when I saw Kuriaht Yom--what’s the name of city? Fuck.
Casey:
Kuriaht Yom.
Jeff:
Yom Kuriaht?
Casey:
“According to Shlomo Cohen. . .”
Jeff:
Fuck.
Casey:
“. . .one of the first people to see the mermaid: ‘I was with friends when suddenly we saw a woman laying on the sand in a weird way. At first I thought she was just another sunbather, but when we approached she jumped into the water and disappeared. We were all in shock because we saw she had a tail.’”
Jeff:
Ah, I see.
Casey:
“Kuriaht Yom is now offering $1 million to the first person to snap a photograph of the reported mermaid. ‘I believe if there really is a mermaid then so many people would come to Kuriaht Yom. A lot more money will be made than $1 million,’ town spokesman Nadi Zibberman said.”
Jeff:
So. . .OK. So what the town council decided to do basically was make lemonade out of lemons, right?
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
He said, OK, we’ve got a lunatic, that saw fish. And let’s milk this, and then bring it up. Let’s not go with the Shlomo is crazy because that turns people off. Nobody is coming to this island, right?
Casey:
Right. Yeah.
Jeff:
It doesn’t matter if you’re Jewish or Palestinian. If you’re not getting anybody. . .
Casey:
Right. Meanwhile, 5,000 miles away in Florida, Robert Melia is like, “I wonder what the law says about mermaid mouths?” I don’t think there’s any gray area here!
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Clearly not covered.
Jeff:
I think he was just sitting there reading his paper quietly, just sitting there with his morning coffee on his porch. . .
Casey:
Yeah. No pants.
Jeff:
No pants. And just quietly mouthed the word “jackpot.”
Casey:
Yeah. Exactly.
Jeff:
“I know where I’m going on my vacation!”
Casey:
Yeah. He’s like, “I have seen what fish do with their mouths normally, and I only hope it carries forward.”
Jeff:
Wow. So the town wants people to come see the mermaid?
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Now normally I guess what you’re saying there is like, OK, we could have had the millionth visitor to our little island gets $1 million, or something like that, as your promotion. But he went with the mermaid because it. . . Sean: It cost him $1 million [indecipherable 17:08].
Jeff:
That’s true! Awesome.
Casey:
Exactly. It says at the end of this--basically the final paragraph of this article is basically PETA’s worst nightmare. It says, “One of the earliest mermaid hoaxes involved showman PT Barnum and his Fiji mermaid. The creature, which was displayed in his museum, was actually a taxidermy fake: the head and torso of a small monkey were grafted onto the body and tail of a fish.”
Jeff:
Fuck! God dammit!
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
You know, stop grafting shit on shit. How many “Island of Dr. Moreau” kinds of things. . .
Casey:
Yeah, but we don’t need to go there. You don’t need to go: “Head and torso of small monkey grafted onto body and tail of fish.” No good.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I think we can just say that that’s probably no good: all graftings, no good?
Jeff:
All graftings, no good. What if it fucking worked? Then we’ve got fucking monkey’s swimming. . .
Casey:
It was taxidermy! It was not [indecipherable 18:02].
Jeff:
I know. I’m just saying all this bullshit. . .
Casey:
This is another one of those fucking things with you and the exotic pets breeding.
Jeff:
Yeah. And it’s going to be true!
Casey:
You can’t actually graft a monkey and a fish together! Sean: Look, I think Jeff has a real point here. If somebody had waved a magic wand and it came to life. . .
Casey:
That’s a good point.
Jeff:
Yeah. See, we don’t want this running around.
Casey:
What if after you graft the dead monkey onto the dead fish, it comes back to life?
Jeff:
It’s not the way it should go. . .
Casey:
What if that happens?
Jeff:
Did you see that site that talked about all those crazy Russian scientists, and their crazy animal/human hybrid experiments?
Casey:
No, I didn’t see that.
Jeff:
I’ll have to send that to you! It is horrible. In Russia, they were just like, “Hey, anything goes man. Whatever.” You figure something out, it’s. . .the ends justify those means.
Casey:
I think.
Jeff:
They have videos of a head only. They replaced everything else, and they have this head of a dog with circulatory machinery and stuff.
Casey:
Whoa!
Jeff:
It is horrifying.
Casey:
Really?
Jeff:
Yes. They have volunteers of women, volunteered to try to be inseminated by gorillas. They were going for it in the 30s. Because Stalin apparently had this monkey-man fetish thing.
Casey:
What the fuck are you talking about!
Jeff:
I’m going to send you the link. It is horrifying.
Casey:
OK.
Jeff:
The Soviets, they were able to fully go for it, that’s all I’m saying. In the 30s and 40s in the Cold War, anything to win.
Casey:
In your mind, I’m imagining that while you were watching this, you were going, “Please let them have done some crotch kicking experiments on these monkey-men!” Right? “Please let there be a series of things where the head with the fake circulatory system also has fake nuts, and it gets kicked by a little robotic foot. And the head goes, ‘Ah!’”
Jeff:
No. No, stop it. No, it’s not the way it should go.
Casey:
All right. Well that’s the mermaid. Sean: That reminds me. Have you ever seen the Eadweard Muybridge series of things where he did the [indecipherable 20:01]?
Casey:
Oh my god, that would be awesome, Sean! Sean: And the thing is nobody would publish the one with crotch kicking.
Casey:
Yeah. It’s like the foot comes up slowly, each frame, by frame, by frame. And then you get the exact study of the crippling, “Ohh!” Fortunately, Muybridge was superseded later by a much more accomplished set of experiments, called “America’s Funniest Home Videos,” which managed to capture that a number of times.
Jeff:
Right. Exactly. That is the world’s largest social experiment. People doing the “Is your baby racist?” they should have just contacted “America’s Funniest Home Videos,” and said, “Hey, next week’s thing is, is your baby reacting to black people? Send us in your videos!” Sean: But as you’ve already said, YouTube is the modern replacement.
Jeff:
Yes. Right. Sean: And what have we learned from YouTube, is that there are a lot of people who spell about as bad as babies. And they’re all racists.
Casey:
Right. And they are all racist, yes.
Jeff:
That’s the other thing. . .
Casey:
Holy shit! What if Sean just figured it out? What if all the racism on YouTube is actually people’s babies typing into the fucking YouTube! They’re all racist babies. . . Sean: Because babies are not smart enough to download child porn.
Casey:
That’s right, only cats are.
Jeff:
Right, exactly. Well we will say this, is that the person on Twitter who friended us, or followed us, named Racist Baby. . .
Casey:
That person was awesome.
Jeff:
Yeah. That made my day.
Casey:
That was the best thing ever.
Jeff:
Yes. Well done. We don’t know who it was, but well done.
Casey:
All they did was just create an account. They didn’t post anything. It was just to make one called Racist Baby.
Jeff:
And all they did was they posted one thing that said. . .
Casey:
“You’re here because I’m here.”
Jeff:
“You’re here because I’m here.” It was perfect.
Casey:
Awesome. It was the awesomest thing that has ever come out of this show, pretty much.
Jeff:
Yeah, well done.
Casey:
All right. So moving along. Juan comes back again, hard-hitting.
Jeff:
Hard-hitting Juan.
Casey:
And he sends us something from the BBC. We love the BBC, we love it when we get a link from the BBC.
Jeff:
We do.
Casey:
Like for example, the dolphin talking guy. That was awesome. “Video gamers ‘older than thought’,” “older than thought” is in quotes.
Jeff:
OK.
Casey:
And it says, “The average age of an adult video game player is 35, higher than previously thought. . .”
Jeff:
30-plus.
Casey:
“. . .a U.S. study suggested.” Wonderful for you, hey?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
“A team from the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention,” thanks for that guys. . .
Jeff:
You know, you could be working on Ebola, or, hey, you may want to get on that whole swine flu thing. “No, we’re playing video games! It’s for a study!”
Casey:
Well I was actually being mad that we were being classified as a disease. That’s what I was grumpy about.
Jeff:
Oh, yeah.
Casey:
Like why are they looking at it? But anyway. “A team from the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention also found gamers were less healthy, fatter and more depressed than non-gamers.”
Jeff:
Yeah, we could’ve saved them some money.
Casey:
Awesome. “Researchers from the government agency analyzed data from 500 adults, aged 19 to 90, in the Seattle-Tacoma area of Washington state.” That’s the only place they picked? What kind of a random study is that?
Jeff:
Yeah. Let’s go to the place that has bred the most serial killers, and has the most suicides of anywhere in the country.
Casey:
And the most tech people.
Jeff:
Yeah, let’s go there, that sounds like a winner! This should be our control group. Well, the control group is Tacoma.
Casey:
This doesn’t make any sense, this doesn’t make any sense at all. Obviously it was going to be older here than elsewhere because all the people are Microsoft people.
Jeff:
Yeah, grown up.
Casey:
They’re all engineers, who play video games.
Jeff:
It doesn’t make any sense. This is science!
Casey:
This is the worst study ever.
Jeff:
Science, my friend.
Casey:
“More than 45 percent of those surveyed reported playing video games,” and 43 percent were from Microsoft. I’m making that second one up.
Jeff:
Yeah. No, that’s probably right.
Casey:
“The team chose the Seattle-Tacoma area because its Internet usage level is the highest within the U.S., and it is one of the larger markets for media. A U.K. survey from 2002 conducted by the Leisure Software Publishers’ Association found the average gamer was aged between 25 and 34. But it also suggested that the average age of the keenest players is gradually edging upwards, a finding reinforced by the CDC finding. The team from CDC examined people’s perception of their mood, personality, health status, physical and mental health, body mass index, and quality of life. Female video game players reported greater depression and lower health status than female non-players, while male gamers reported a higher BMI and a greater reliance on the Internet than non-gamers.”
Jeff:
Wow.
Casey:
“To their credits, the CDC’s James B. Weaver said the results were not that surprising. ‘Health risks factors, specifically a higher BMI and a large number of poor mental health days, differentiate adult video game players from non-gamers,’ he said. The video game players also reported lower extroversion, consistent with research on adolescents that linked video game playing to a sedentary lifestyle and overweight status.” Is being overweight a status?
Jeff:
Yeah, I think so, I guess. Yeah, I’m a status. Does he go on to say, “Hey, if anybody can get me on the Gears 3 beta, I’d be really grateful!”
Casey:
Awesome, awesome! “We picked the Seattle-Tacoma area because I was hoping that Bungee would invite me over. Does anybody know if the cake is actually a lie? I don’t even understand!” All right. Sean: He died in the fire.
Casey:
Oh yeah, he died in the fire. “I was hoping Valve could give me some tips! . . .I know Gabe Knewell makes these games, and I wanted to see. . .”
Jeff:
Swine flu is probably just normal flu, it’s just the CDC has been on vacation, stuck on [indecipherable 25:31].
Casey:
Yeah, exactly. They’re wondering. . .their TF-2 attorneys have just been raging out of control. So they’re like, “I don’t care what you say it is, call it whatever. We’re not looking at it right now.”
Jeff:
Exactly.
Casey:
All right. Well thank you, Juan. I didn’t realize that they had done this study, so far. In fact, let’s just finish out our Juans. We’ve got one more Juan here. It’s called “Junk in the Trunk.” I like the title of this email.
Jeff:
There are some emails where you’re like, “I’m going to enjoy whatever’s in this.”
Casey:
Yeah. And you know what? I was hoping that it was going to be more of a like “Big butt slink,” or something like this.
Jeff:
OK.
Casey:
Because it’s “Junk in the Trunk.” You need a little something extra, you know what I mean?
Jeff:
OK.
Casey:
A little big bottom. The sweeter the pushin’, right? Now here’s the problem: the actual subject is way better than that. But it’s up your alley, not mine, so to speak.
Jeff:
Stop it.
Casey:
“Repair shop finds goat in car trunk.”
Jeff:
Oh, I remember this!
Casey:
“Auto repair man James Prushee has seen some unusual things left in the cars he works on, but nothing quite like he found Friday in the trunk of--wait for it--a Chevy Malibu.”
Jeff:
Right, of course.
Casey:
Big surprise there. Sean: Was this in Florida?
Casey:
Was this in Florida? That is a very good question. “Winona Daily News,” where is that?
Jeff:
It’s in Minnesota.
Casey:
OK.
Jeff:
And because there’s a crucial thing. . .because really I would say that you’d find goats, probably dead ones, but mostly dead goats in probably 30 percent of the Chevy Malibus in the country.
Casey:
Right, that’s probably true.
Jeff:
But this is in Minnesota. Go on, and it explains it.
Casey:
OK. “A woman came into the Tires Plus in Winona just before noon asking if the shop had time to replace a belt.”
Jeff:
OK.
Casey:
Yeah, the one that’s holding the goat down in the back of my car!
Jeff:
Yeah, it’s breaking. It chew through the belt.
Casey:
Yeah, exactly. “Prushee started the paperwork. ‘Oh, by the way,’ the woman said. . .”
Jeff:
Oh, yeah.
Casey:
“’By the way, I have a goat in my trunk.’”
Jeff:
Yeah, of course.
Casey:
“Prushee didn’t think he heard her right.”
Jeff:
And he probably thought goat like GTO, or something.
Casey:
“’A what?’ ‘Yes, a goat,’ the woman said. ‘And it’s alive.’”
Jeff:
Of course it is.
Casey:
“She planned to butcher the animal later, but was passing through Winona on her way to St. Paul when the car broke down.” Why is it always when I’m transporting a live goat! Of all the times that my Malibu could break down, it has to be when the live goat’s in the trunk, and it’s chewed halfway through to the back seat.
Jeff:
Yeah. Exactly.
Casey:
That’s no good. Of course maybe the reason the car broke down is because it chewed through the wheel well, into the axle or something. But anyway. “She planned to butcher the animal,” blah, blah, blah. “The woman and a man and child, who were waiting outside, left while Prusheen and others worked. After about 10 minutes they could hear the goat crying.”
Jeff:
Yeah. I’d be crying.
Casey:
“’We cracked open the trunk, you know, so that it could breathe, and sure enough there it was. It kind of poked its head up.’”
Jeff:
How ya’ll doin’! I just imagine the little goat is like, “Where am I!”
Casey:
Yeah, exactly. Well I would like to underscore the fact that “Repair shop finds goat in car trunk,” not a very accurate headline. I mean if I come in and say, “Hey, can you fix this belt? Also there’s a goat in the trunk,” you didn’t really find the goat in the trunk, per se. You kind of like confirmed. It would be “Repair shop confirms goat in trunk,” is a little more accurate about what happened.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Anyway. “’We cracked open the trunk, you know, so it could breathe, and sure enough there it was. It kind of poked its head up.’ But the goat had been painted purple and gold, the colors of the Minnesota Vikings. Shaved into its side was the number four, the number of Brett Favre, who made his Vikings’ debut Friday night in a preseason game in the Twin Cities.”
Jeff:
Right. So what you did is you had somebody that was expecting Favre to suck. They had the goat ready, and then they made their point. They planned out this political cartoonish version of what they thought would happen at the tailgating party.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And they’re like, “All right, well I made my point. I thought he’d suck, he was the goat, I win. But now I’ve got this fucking goat.”
Casey:
There’s blood all over the parking lot, is basically what it ends with. She said she plans to butcher the goat.
Jeff:
She’s going to kill the goat.
Casey:
They’re going to kill this goat.
Jeff:
I think that whoever did that is not the person who painted the goat. My guess is that at the tailgating party, he’s like, “All right, who wants a goat? Goat! Free goat! Who wants this goat?” and then gave the goat away to this lady.
Casey:
Oh, OK. I see.
Jeff:
And then she’s like, “Where are we going to keep it?”
Casey:
So you think they’d already had the tailgate. They were coming from. . .
Jeff:
Yeah. Coming from, yes.
Casey:
OK. OK.
Jeff:
Right, is what I assume happened.
Casey:
All right. Well all I can say is. . .
Jeff:
Well done! They went to animal cruelty. . .
Casey:
It has a sort of happy ending. The people at the repair shop called animal control. They came, they got the goat, took it to a veterinarian, and I guess the goat’s OK now.
Jeff:
OK. Sean: Wait, so you can’t lock a goat in your fucking trunk?
Casey:
Apparently not.
Jeff:
And shave it with the number four? What? Obama is ruining this country. Seriously?
Casey:
Right. Well if the election of Barack Obama proves anything, it’s that people cannot take a goat home, painted the color of a sports team if it’s still alive. . .
Jeff:
With a number on it.
Casey:
. . .in a Chevy Malibu any more, if they plan to have a belt replaced. Which is ridiculous! Sean: You’ve got to at least leave a pacifier in the trunk.
Casey:
Exactly. That goat needs a little keyhole, a little backseat to goat glory hole. . .
Jeff:
I can’t imagine what the goat is really thinking, whether this is. . .
Casey:
I have no idea. [indecipherable 31:15] we lost that game. Sean: Maybe it likes being in the trunk? You never know.
Jeff:
Yeah, that’s true. It’s like, “Fuckin’ awesome! I open the trunk, he hops in.” It’s a great game. He doesn’t know about the slaughter house at the end.
Casey:
No, he doesn’t. I don’t know how I feel about this because it’s like at some level I eat goat, I would eat goat. I guess I don’t, but I would. I’ll eat anything pretty much. I don’t have a high standard for what of animals I’m willing to eat. So at some level it’s like well why should I care about how this goat is being treated prior to when it’s going to get butchered?
Jeff:
Well I mean. . .
Casey:
But at the same time I kind of feel like for some reason I feel like there’s a distinction in my head where I go, “I want things to either be classified as food or classified as pets, and not in between.” If thing’s going to be food, I want you to kill it, butcher it, serve it. Don’t prolong the problem. And if it’s a pet, I want it to be treated humanely. And when it lands in the middle. . .
Jeff:
Those gray lines.
Casey:
. . .I’m not OK. I’m not comfortable with the, “It’s a pet for a while, and then I eat it.” That, I’m not OK with that somehow. I have no rational reasonal reason not to be, there’s no pragmatic reason for me not to be. I just for some reason can’t do it.
Jeff:
Maybe they were driving into Philadelphia for a wild weekend with Robert. You never know.
Casey:
It could be.
Jeff:
I don’t know anybody. . .my dad had a goat for three days and it was a complete disaster.
Casey:
Yeah, that’s right. In fact, I think we told that story in the podcast where it ate through everything.
Jeff:
It ate everything.
Casey:
It ate everything.
Jeff:
So, if Robert does any research at all--his name is Robert, right?
Casey:
The animal cruelty [indecipherable 32:47] guy?
Jeff:
Officer Robert?
Casey:
Yeah. Robert Milan.
Jeff:
He needs to stay away from goats. [indecipherable 32:53] goat. Sean: Do you want to give them that advice, or would you rather. . .?
Jeff:
. . .Him find out the hard way? Sean: Yeah.
Jeff:
Or the not so hard way?
Casey:
Pun intended! Yeah, the hard way is definitely. . .
Jeff:
All right. Next.
Casey:
So let’s move onto, I guess now we can finish off our Larry Johnsons as well? Larry writes in that he has a twofer, he calls it. The twofer is a robot story and an animal story, in one, a combination.
Jeff:
OK. Wow, wow. How did I not hear about this?
Casey:
And all I can say is I guess this is an argument for either, and I’m not sure which one it’s going to be, we’ll find out which argument it is. It is either an argument that we should really try to get to our mailbag sooner, or depending on how this goes, an argument for us to wait exactly as long as we did.
Jeff:
OK. OK.
Casey:
And that is because the page we are seeking is no longer available at msnbc.com, it has expired.
Jeff:
OK.
Casey:
But thankfully the title and subtitle are still there, which I think will allow us to reconstruct a fair bit of the story without requiring any particular archive.org magic. And that is: “Robot Cats could Care for Older Britains.”
Jeff:
OK. Of course they could.
Casey:
Byline: “Ethical challenges include concerns about robots leading to social isolation.”
Jeff:
OK. So how come everybody. . .
Casey:
[sighs]
Jeff:
Yeah. People do that for the Internet, too. People are like, “Oh, I’m addicted to the Internet,” and they don’t get out and they don’t see people as much.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It’s like, OK, I don’t think the people that write that really know what addiction is because there’s a whole ‘nother thing there that they’re not really. . . The fact that you want to be on the Internet is not the same as a heroin addict blowing a police officer in a back alley to get a dime bag. It’s another thing.
Casey:
Yeah. But wait, are you sure? Are you sure that the only difference isn’t that Internet is available for 39.99 a month? If you could only get Internet by blowing a police officer, with the way I’ve seen you use Facebook on you iPhone, I’m not sure.
Jeff:
No!
Casey:
I’m not necessarily certain at this point what would happen.
Jeff:
No! No. I think all that crazy shit is. . .it’s also when they say the Internet is addicting and stuff, I don’t even know what that means. It means Facebook to one person, email to another, pornography to the next. It’s like saying, “Oh, I’m addicted to the computer.” It doesn’t mean anything.
Casey:
I think there’s, like all things, levels of addiction, and they’re probably difficult to classify chemically because they probably have lots of different chemical pathways. Just basic positive reinforcement, conditioning and stuff like that. . .
Jeff:
Like when you go on YouTube and there’s an animal link.
Casey:
Right. And then, so you want to keep checking. Any time anyone sends you a YouTube link you’re going to check because it might be an awesome animal thing.
Jeff:
It’s that first one, OK.
Casey:
Or whatever, or even better sometimes.
Jeff:
Right. Sometimes there’s a robot involved.
Casey:
It gets hit in the nuts or whatever.
Jeff:
Perfect.
Casey:
And all the way to something that’s like you have serious physical side effects that occur if you don’t have it.
Jeff:
Right. Physical and psychological addiction.
Casey:
Like shaking, like hallucinations. There’s all kinds of things you can have.
Jeff:
I went on vacation, I didn’t straighten out my roaming on my iPhone, and I’ve been hallucinating a video clip.
Casey:
Exactly.
Jeff:
I imagined I’m like in the air kind of looking on something.
Casey:
Yeah. Well, I imagine, the iPhone is like methadone: it does all the same shit that your computer does, only really poorly. So there’s this built-in sort of shitty version of it?
Jeff:
No. You know, you’re more right than I think you even intended. It’s not just that it’s a shittier version. Methadone is like a less bad for you heroin, but it’s more psychologically addicting, which is true of the iPhone as well. Everything is worse on it, but when you have it with you, a lull in the conversation, you check your email.
Casey:
Yeah, I hate that shit.
Jeff:
All the time. You’re like, “Oh, the light’s red.” Whoop! Doo, doo, doo! That’s the methadone thing.
Casey:
Or in your case, the light’s green!
Jeff:
Hey, stop it!
Casey:
Foot on accelerator, hand on iPhone.
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Well that’s because I was looking up an email. But I’m just saying that. . .
Casey:
Yeah, you did today read your email while driving. I watched you do it.
Jeff:
Yes. Yes. Well I had to come get you Sean: I think there’s still. . .
Jeff:
We’re not talking about. . . Sean: Understanding the ethical issues here for the cats. Because A, what happens when the robot cat downloads child porn on your computer
Casey:
Yeah, this is an excellent point. Sean just brought up an excellent point which is will these robot cats be programmed to be able to download child porn like real cats can, or. . .?
Jeff:
Robot cats, though, all you need to do is fix that at your router because they use wifi. So you put a block on there and you’re fine.
Casey:
Now here’s a question: robot cats, will they have lasers? Because in my mind I don’t think that you can deploy robot cats without lasers. Just science fiction-wise, it seems like they should have a laser of some kind. Sean: That seems like a really bad idea because then they see their laser and they start chasing it.
Jeff:
Yeah, and smack right into a wall.
Casey:
It’s like a carrot on a stick that’s attached to their back. They can’t ever catch the laser.
Jeff:
Yeah. I turned on my robot cat, and he just ran off to the horizon.
Casey:
And we never saw him again.
Jeff:
It was like a turtle.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So here’s the thing though, why would you make them cats? Because cats don’t give a shit about people.
Casey:
Well maybe that’s to mirror society’s indifference towards old people. It’s like, we’re giving you an animal that embodies all of the care that we actually have about you.
Jeff:
. . .how we feel about you. Now go to a nursing home, we want your house.
Casey:
Pretty much.
Jeff:
That’s the secret, they made the. . .
Casey:
But where is the ethical challenge in having a robot cat--what’s the ethical challenge? There’s social isolation, but that person would have been socially isolated anyway. So where is the ethics problem there. Sean: Well they don’t have a robot house or a robot pest, or whatever robots. They are either dead, or they’ve got [indecipherable 39:19]. . .
Casey:
OK, what if it’s a robotic tiger they can ride around on then, is that better? I mean what do they want from us here? Because I’m just going to say one thing right now because I don’t think you can do that much with that. But a laser equipped tiger, that’s scary.
Jeff:
That’s horrible.
Casey:
So as far as I’m concerned [indecipherable 39:38].
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I guess what I’m saying is old people need mounts. They probably should have a mount. At this point you’re level 72 or whatever, you’re retired, 73, 74, whatever, but technically you can do early level up at 59 and a half. You should get a mount at that point, you should have a mount. And you can ride around on your laser tiger all you want, doing anything that you want.
Jeff:
I think you’re missing the bigger picture, and that is these robot cats, they’re not being paid. They’re effectively slaves. Sean: [indecipherable] Jeff for a minute. I did. What’s the downside of slavery, with the robot cats as slaves?
Jeff:
Well the cats are going to hate that shit. Sean: Right. So that was what I was wondering whether you had mentioned the obvious problem, that is that the cats will rebel.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
It’ll lead to the robot uprising. I am feeling like a retard for suggesting we give them all lasers at that point, I suppose.
Jeff:
Exactly. Yeah. You’re like. . .good job Casey!
Casey:
Sorry guys.
Jeff:
Now we have to carry mirrors around all the time to reflect the laser. Thanks! This isn’t a good look for me: a big suit made of mirrors is not slimming at all.
Casey:
No, it’s not.
Jeff:
Especially if I’m near someone that’s fatter than me. Then you just see him, not me! This sucks! Thanks, Casey, and your goddamned laser idea.
Casey:
Not to mention the fact that all cat lasers will go on indefinitely because they just keep bouncing around everyone’s mirrors. So there’s just this giant network of mirrors and lasers. That’s the future.
Jeff:
Hopefully it’ll eventually hit the cats.
Casey:
The future is a bad 70s disco scene kind of thing with all these reflective bowls and stuff.
Jeff:
The future is just one huge augmented reality version of Chromatron, where there’s lasers bouncing around and eventually hitting a cat and hopefully destroying it.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Fuck.
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casey muratori
the jeff and casey show - season 2 - episode 23
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