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The Technician
No Imperfections Noted
The Jeff and Casey Show
Jeff and Casey Time
Casey Muratori
Seattle, WA
Don't Copy That - Part II
"It's like a joke about a gas chamber."
Original air date: September 21st, 2009
Topics. Corporations. Copyright. Intellectual property.
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Transcript
Jeff:
Hey, everybody! Welcome back to the Jeff and Casey Show.
Casey:
Welcome back to the Jeff and Casey Show. This is the first time we think we did a, not knowingly, two-episode podcast. We were just like we’ve got too much stuff. All of a sudden, we got to stop.
Jeff:
We got to stop, and we’ve had ones where we broke it into two.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But we knew that it was going to be two.
Casey:
But we didn’t know why we were doing it at the [unintelligible].
Jeff:
Yeah, yeah, right. All right.
Casey:
When we broke it into two it’s sort of afted [sp] fat.
Jeff:
Proportionately, you noticed, we’d hit the one- hour mark.
Casey:
Yeah, I was like, ‘Oh I felt I’d like this is not getting really long. ’
Jeff:
Anyway --
Casey:
So, okay --
Jeff:
Is this just the continuation of the copyright podcast?
Casey:
This is the continuation of the previous podcast where we talked about the fact that the SIIA --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
--came out with another scare tactic video that manages to be both terrifying if you think about its actual implications and ridiculously cheesy at the same time, which is a rather distinguished honor at some day. It’s hard to do that.
Jeff:
Somehow they mixed the end like --
Casey:
Right? It’s like a --
Jeff:
-- insulting cheesiness, they’re like a chef over a great bay --
Casey:
Yeah. Right. It’s like a joke about a gas chamber.
Jeff:
Yeah, it’s like you pou --
Casey:
It’s reviling and yet somehow things is it’s making light of it.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And it’s cheesy. I don’t understand how they manage it up but they did it. That’s what they did.
Jeff:
I think what -- I think that’s a common thing in corporate videos and we talked about this before —
Casey:
Yeah, that’s true.
Jeff:
-- is you have a lot of people throwing opinions in and what should be and you don’t have a creative vision. All you have -- the creative people come in after you want you make a video.
Casey:
And they’re not creative people because people who are really creative have real jobs making real stuff.
Jeff:
Oh, sure.
Casey:
These are people who make like [expletive] corporate videos.
Jeff:
So the creative people meaning --
Casey:
So you’ve got the worst creative people working with corporate people who are not creative.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
What do you think are you going to get?
Jeff:
So they throw all this [expletive] like in a great big pot, a bubbling, let’s say bubbling shit.
Casey:
Festering shit.
Jeff:
Yeah, and they’re pouring their stuff on there and --
Casey:
It’s like a shit stew.
Jeff:
And they’ve hired a chef to come in to stir but all they can do is and pour it into a bowl.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Because he’s not allowed any input like the corporate people decided what goes in there.
Casey:
Right, yeah.
Jeff:
And you end up in this thing where it’s like insulting and in cheesy, and degrading and horrific all of what’s --
Casey:
Violation of human values everything is in this video. It’s really bad.
Jeff:
Right. It insults your sense of taste --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- and your sense of humanity at the same time. It’s amazing.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
If you’re served this soup --
Casey:
Yes. Shit soup.
Jeff:
Like I think if you had this shit soup, I think it would kill you before you ate a bite.
Casey:
Yeah [unintelligible]. The smell is noxious.
Jeff:
Yes, it’s just like you set up a table -- something like that.
Casey:
It ain’t right to the table.
Jeff:
It’s awful.
Casey:
So but we wanted to get to as well. We didn’t have time during the previous edition because we went so long ranting about this video --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
-- and how evil the people are who make it and how they have no sort of moral fiber.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
We wanted to kind of get to sort of more --
Jeff:
Especially Keith [sp] -- what’s his name again?
Casey:
Oh well, Keith Cup —
Jeff:
Keep saying his name.
Casey:
His name is Cupfor Schmidt [sp]. And I guess he’s sort of --
Jeff:
Right. What is he? Is he the vice president of anal raping?
Casey:
He’s the senior Vice President for Intellectual Property Policy.
Jeff:
Okay. Right, okay.
Casey:
Are we done with IPP?
Jeff:
[Chuckles] Right, done with IPP. [Expletive]
Casey:
So yeah, you know, he had some choice [sp] courts about this video in the press release. He said that the software [unintelligible] nudge at the message while still relevant was sort of in in need of a facelift.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Quote and quote. Which is what Keith said about the old video, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So he thought that the message was still relevant.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
He thought that it was still it’s just -- so it was just sort of the format, right?
Jeff:
That was broken.
Casey:
The medium that was the problem, it just needs to be updated.
Jeff:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
So the style it was the stylistic problem.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Not the fact that the first video sucked as well.
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
Right?
Jeff:
This was like --
Casey:
Or that’s a massive sucked --
Jeff:
This is like looking at a really ugly old woman --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- who has boils --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- and she’s 100 pounds overweight.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And says what we need to do is give her a facelift and she’ll be gorgeous, right? Like no, I disagree.
Casey:
[chuckles] I disagree. As you know, every time an analogy is made, I must literalize the analogy so that everything lines up and I would tell you the analogy we’re trying to make.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
They were like you know what the problem is here? That old lady, she was wearing a dress from that period.
Jeff:
Right, a moo-moo.
Casey:
Styles have changed.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
So we took the dress off, we put a new dress on her, everything is fine.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
She’s a hottie now.
Jeff:
We gave her a mini skirt and too much make up.
Casey:
She’s out an algiphorbic [sp] ‘cause all they’re talking about is the stylistic urban.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
They even got the same rapper.
Jeff:
Yup.
Casey:
So it’s the same old lady.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Vintage old lady.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
She’s still the same guy who’s wearing different clothes.
Jeff:
But he’s the only black person that would do that right?
Casey:
[laughs]
Jeff:
Like anybody else would say, ‘What are you [expletive] kidding me?’
Casey:
Oh I could just surge knife, we’ll [expletive] kill you if you copy this album.
Jeff:
[laughs]
Casey:
He doesn’t need some [expletive] industry organization of the -- like they take care of bidness [sp] their own way, I’m sure, right?
Jeff:
[laughs]
Casey:
Like they don’t need to have some dude come on and rap it that I should copy it. But if they’ve just found you a bit torrenting it, they’ll just kill everyone.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And that’s fine.
Jeff:
Anyway.
Casey:
Yeah. So point being, he then said that in 1992, it was when the original video came out.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
He said, obviously the audience was not as educated, not as knowledgeable, certainly with regard to technology, as they are now. What we’re trying to do is something a little bit different, a little bit tongue and cheek.
Jeff:
Right. It sounds like he’s blaming the audience.
Casey:
Has been set. [overlapped with Jeff’s previous last line]
Casey:
He is blaming the audience.
Jeff:
It’s like listen, you know, the audience is in those days were really stupid?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
We didn’t have to spell everything out.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
We could use symbolism.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Now, today’s audience, we have to show them going to jail, right?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like we have to clarify this [expletive].
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
[expletive]
Casey:
Well, if you recall, I feel like the original video and I don’t know because it’s [expletive] ten minutes long.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
So it’s hard to I have seen it multiple times. It was hilarious but it’s hard to remember the whole thing. It is so long.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I believe that the emphasis in that one was more just about like you’re taking money away from the people who create these things.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And that’s that, right?
Jeff:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
Which seems to be a much less insidious message than this one was saying, which is that like ‘We’re going to get you if you copy this.’
Jeff:
Right. Yeah, ‘You watch out.’
Casey:
I feel like the old one was less sort of overlord-ish.
Jeff:
Yeah, no I’ve --
Casey:
And that this one is much more that way.
Jeff:
Well, I feel like what’s happened though, and the reason why they’re doing that, is not because they made a stylistic choice. It’s because they’re feeling their power.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like between I mean --
Casey:
Video games did not have a lot of cloud pack then. It’s software.
Jeff:
And not even just video games software and like you know --
Casey:
Yes, that’s correct.
Jeff:
-- the RAA is putting people in jail.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And win this $7 million judgment.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It’s like they’re on top of the world.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
They’re like, ‘You know what? We can put you in jail if we want wherever we want.’
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like this video is like a -- him taking a glove and slapping your face.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It’s this like ‘You know what? [Expletive] you, copiers.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Bring it on.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
That’s what it basically he’s Bush, like bring it on to the terrorists.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And you’re like ‘I don’t think that’s you’re kind of identifying me as the bad guy.’
Casey:
Yeah, exactly.
Jeff:
I’m in sixth grade watching this video going.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You are really thinking I’m going to do this stuff, maybe I just will.
Casey:
Yeah, yeah.
Jeff:
Like [expletive] you.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Good luck.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So yeah. The whole thing like --
Casey:
Well, so let’s talk about the mid issue now then, since we’ve sort of established the fact that this video is crap and the people who are part of this organization are also crap.
Jeff:
And id [sp] you should denounce this publicly.
Casey:
It’s really said that it was involved with this. It’s --
Jeff:
[Expletive]
Casey:
That’s a shame.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
That’s really a shame, but you know, what are you going to do?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So basically, the mid issue here is just copyright and control and power of this sort.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
We’ll just talk about that for one second.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So what I leave to you is take a moment to remind everyone --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
-- that actually, the only purpose for copyright and patent is for advancing the arts and sciences, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
That’s actually like in the constitution.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So I’ll read the copyright clause here. I brought it up on my on the computer in preparation for this.
Jeff:
‘Cause this did not exist. This protection was not part of the constitution. It was --
Casey:
That’s correct.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Copyright and patent are not part of the constitution in any way.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
There is simply a clause that says to promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for a limited times to office and investors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries.
Jeff:
Right. Okay.
Casey:
That’s what we’re talking about.
Jeff:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
Copyright and patents, they were not new concepts at this time.
Jeff:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
Right? So the founders of the country knew what those were, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
They were aware of that.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Britain Adam, whatever, they existed. Those were not put in the constitution as inalienable rights that citizens received.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
The only thing that the constitution said was that congress could decide to pass laws for these purposes if they felt like it was benefitting basically the technological and cultural progress of our country.
Jeff:
Right. And even then --
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And even then --
Casey:
For a limited time.
Jeff:
-- for a limited time.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So essentially, I think that it’s just a giant brainwash these days that people feel entitled to control over their ideas.
Jeff:
Correct.
Casey:
Because that is not true. It’s never been true.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
It’s not a true thing about humanity, in general.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And it’s actually not a true thing about our constitution either.
Jeff:
Right. It’s something --
Casey:
The only point is to help society with your ideas.
Jeff:
Not you.
Casey:
Not you. And the only reason that we’re saying that we’ll give you some benefits from it is because we’re providing an incentive.
Jeff:
Right. Right.
Casey:
That’s all we’re trying to do is incentivise you --
Jeff:
It’s a cookie.
Casey:
-- to think of these things.
Jeff:
Right. It’s this --
Casey:
That’s it.
Jeff:
It’s not a right. It’s a cookie.
Casey:
It’s not a right. It’s a cookie.
Jeff:
It’s a cookie you get like --
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
‘Oh, if you spend some time creating something. --
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
-- here is this cookie you can have --
Casey:
That’s right.
Jeff:
-- for what started out.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
I believe it started out at twelve years. It’s now up to 70 years. ‘
Casey:
I don’t remember it just keeps getting worse.
Jeff:
Yeah, right. And we can talk about that in a second anyway. So that cookie keeps getting like it’s a long lasting cookie. It’s like it’s like --
Casey:
It’s an everlasting gob stop for now.
Jeff:
Right, everlasting gob shopper.
Casey:
‘Really want the showed up in suck and bio engineer this [expletive] out of our cookie, all set.
Jeff:
Right. Right.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And so but it’s not a right.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And that’s something people have to understand. It’s like when they --
Casey:
Who writes the promise that writes the word ‘right’ gets used in a lot of different ways? We’re talking about right as in I confer your right temporarily. You’re talking about the bill of rights which --
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
-- are things you can’t take away. You know, whatever. People talk about health care as being a right. But it’s not a right that was never written anywhere --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
-- that it’s a right per se, but people just use that term. So when you use the term rights, it can mean a lot of things. It can mean things you think people should have. It could mean things that people start off with its side takes [sp] --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
-- a way there’s all these ever means for it. So we can just for a minute just talk about the fact that hey, let’s ignore the word right for a second ‘cause it’s too loaded and has lesser meaning.
Jeff:
Too loaded, okay. Right.
Casey:
And just say that the copyright clause of the constitution, I just read it, that’s all we’ve got, okay?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So even at the outset --
Jeff:
Everything else --
Jeff:
--is trapping and scaffolding and like --
Casey:
Yes, everything else is to be as is on top of that.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And unfortunately, it’s very clear these days that congress has gone from perhaps originally, legitimately trying to execute this clause.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Meaning, create systems that would foster innovation, foster creativity, etcetera, maybe that’s what they originally trying to do as per the constitution.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Who knows? But by now, it’s pretty clear that they don’t give a flying [expletive] about the constitution, just like they don’t give the [expletive] about it for anything else these days.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So now, all they’re doing is basically trying to give control to --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
-- people who make stuff, --
Jeff:
Right, right.
Casey:
-- which are corporations with a lot of money, basically.
Jeff:
So what they have is they -- the congress was never supposed to yield this --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- as a controlling thing.
Casey:
It’s not about control.
Jeff:
It was to enhance society to make society better.
Casey:
That’s correct.
Jeff:
And that goes both ways like one of the the things that they can do is if they felt like there was some outbreak of some disease.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
It’s like the government can temporarily make turn the patents off on a drug.
Casey:
That’s correct.
Jeff:
And like anybody can generate some --
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
-- and get everybody better.
Casey:
And --
Jeff:
But that very rarely happens, but they have done it before.
Casey:
Yeah, to be fair, they have done that before. They’ve done that before --
Jeff:
They also did that for end of wars.
Casey:
-- permanently. Actually, they’ve done it before because originally, the courts did not strike down Well, I shouldn’t say the courts did not strike down. The patent office and the screen [sp] court never heard a case on this. But the patent office allowed patents on surgical procedures.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And congress permanently decided to remove those --
Jeff:
Just took away.
Casey:
-- because they were like that’s too terrifying, right?
Jeff:
Right. The same thing --
Casey:
Now granted why they think it’s okay that surgical procedures can’t be patented but bio pharmaceuticals can be?
Jeff:
I have no idea of that.
Casey:
Same reasoning in both cases but whatever.
Jeff:
It’s scary for that but that’s home of it. But we can keep it on that --
Casey:
It’s really scary, yeah.
Jeff:
I mean, they did it with the --
Casey:
The patents have to be another one --
Jeff:
-- the interesting thing there was a --
Casey:
-- cause that’s a whole another --
Jeff:
There’s another interesting there with the Wright brothers where congress also --
Casey:
Right. Yes, that’s right.
Jeff:
public domained like the Wright brothers were a bunch of cocks, right?
Casey:
Yeah. Yeah, just like Edison.
Jeff:
They were [expletive] that yeah, they were suing anybody --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- that tried to put a kite in the sky.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
They had a lawyer there.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And they [expletive] up the aviation industry for ten years.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So remember that --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- on like you know, when they have the annual, it’s ‘Oh oh North Carolina roll, you ruled it.’ No, you’re a bunch of [expletive] [expletive].
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And it wasn’t until the World War I.
Casey:
Was it not Damien [SP] Edison? Like the [expletive] [expletive] if I -- but save that.
Jeff:
Right, save that.
Casey:
Well, save that, ‘cause we do need to do a patent episode at some point.
Jeff:
Okay. Anyway --
Casey:
So we’re on copyright right now, what’s the different thing?
Jeff:
Yeah, yeah. So the --
Casey:
Copyright applies to just about anything.
Jeff:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
Right? Copyright applies to anything that you do.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And in some sense, personally, I feel like copyright makes a lot of more sense as a thing.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
What copyright kind of does work pretty well because if you want to generate an industry of some kind, around making creative works, then, it works relatively well because at least, before, lawyers start to getting a little too ridiculous with it, It used to just basically mean like ‘Hey, if I were the book, I’m the person who gets to print and sell the book.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And you can’t just print the same book and charge for it, --
Jeff:
--And put your name on it.
Casey:
-- put your name on it for a few years.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And that was fine, right? Give me some time to recoup the development cost of the book.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And it’s kind of doing exactly what the constitution wanted, which was providing a way to get some monetary recovery from a creative work before everyone could just print it.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Now, for some reason, --
Jeff:
-- somewhere along the way —
Casey:
-- somewhere along the line, we stopped looking it at that way.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And we started looking at is if I write a book, I own the ideas in that book.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I own them.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
But ownership was never a part of this concept.
Jeff:
Right. They’re not granting --
Casey:
It was never about that.
Jeff:
They’re not granting you ownership.
Casey:
It’s a limited, exclusive right.
Jeff:
And it -- right.
Casey:
There’s a difference between that and ownership.
Jeff:
It’s not your idea.
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
It’s that ideas don’t have an owner.
Casey:
Yeah, it don’t work that way. Yeah. They don’t they aren’t -- because they are immediately duplicated. Anytime I say an idea to you, you now have a fully functional copy of it.
Jeff:
Right. It’s way easier to copy ideas than it is to copy software.
Casey:
That’s right.
Jeff:
It’s the first thing that we were able to copy --
Casey:
It’s that Yes. That’s right.
Jeff:
-- because you can verbally transmit an idea quite easily --
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
-- before we have networks and stuff.
Casey:
That’s correct.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
That’s correct.
Jeff:
Somehow --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- we turn copyright into ownership of something.
Casey:
Ownership. And that’s really --
Jeff:
And that’s not true.
Casey:
That has been the destructive thing.
Jeff:
If you want to own your ideas --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- here’s the thing. Everyone out there, if you really want to own your ideas, don’t tell anybody about it.
Casey:
That’s right.
Jeff:
Make a product, and then just lock them up in your basement until you’re dead.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You know it will be awesome.
Casey:
Yeah. That will be awesome. It will be all yours.
Jeff:
Like when you die, and you die, and we discover all these --
Casey:
He who dies with the most ideas wins.
Jeff:
We’ll see all these ideas and we’ll say, ‘Man, that guy was a genius.’
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
‘Too bad, he’s dead.’ Right?
Casey:
Exactly.
Jeff:
But if you want to be out in the real world making the world better.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And be at --
Casey:
Or worse, either one.
Jeff:
Just creating something, trying to --
Casey:
Yeah, just doing something.
Jeff:
-- put something out there.
Casey:
Exactly.
Jeff:
As retarded as it may be, or as good as it may be, or whatever.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You know it could be awesome like this podcast.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Or [expletive] like this podcast, --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- depending on who’s listening.
Casey:
That’s right.
Jeff:
But at least you’re putting something out there, right?
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
But as soon as you do that, you no longer have ownership of anything there, right? You might have the ability to limit what other people make money on it and like whether they can --
Casey:
For a limited time.
Jeff:
For a limited but even that’s a limited time.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Now, one of the problems is and we’ve been talking about this real quickly is that congress over the last hundred years
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- and they call this the Mickey Mouse rule --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- is every time copyright gets to the point where it’s close to Mickey Mouse --
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
--no longer being on their copyright.
Casey:
-- copyright for Disney.
Jeff:
-- which means that we can see Mickey doing whatever --
Casey:
whatever we want.
Jeff:
-- like the day after, Mickey is going to be [expletive] many everyday.
Casey:
Not just many.
Jeff:
Oh everybody. Yeah, that’s true.
Casey:
Everything. Mickey Mouse is going t be doing everything.
Jeff:
Is going to be out of control.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
He has got a lot of pent up sexual energy --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- for the last 70 years --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- which is now 90, I think.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But every time he gets close, they kind of rush through something where you talk to the congress man. And they’re like wait. What? Copyright expires? But you own -- Mickey Mouse is --
Casey:
-- Which doesn’t make any sense.
Jeff:
-- the property Disney.
Casey:
Yeah that doesn’t make any sense.
Jeff:
But they don’t even see it as they see it. It’s so ingrained in our society that Disney owns the concept --
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
-- of a mouse with big ears.
Casey:
Well, that’s also let’s remind ourselves too. Again, constitution does not ever call anything property.
Jeff:
Right. Right. It’s not ownership, right.
Casey:
Unless it -- it never says that you get property or anything like that.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It just says this limited time exclusive right. That’s it.
Jeff:
Right. It’s ridiculous so --
Casey:
Property can’t even place unlimited time.
Jeff:
But if you
Casey:
It implies that it’s yours --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
-- permanently until you sell it to somebody.
Jeff:
But
Casey:
That’s not what this is.
Jeff:
Somewhere along the line --
Casey:
Intellectual property is a misnomer. I guess that’s what I’m saying.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
It’s not your property.
Jeff:
Right. Right, it’s not yours.
Casey:
If anything it’s a lease.
Jeff:
Right [chuckles]
Casey:
Okay?
Jeff:
And we’ve given you for free.
Casey:
Intellectual apartment --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
-- is what it is, Right?
Jeff:
So --
Casey:
It’s not an intellectual condo.
Jeff:
But if you --
Casey:
There’s an important difference there.
Jeff:
But if you talk to most people, they --
Casey:
They don’t think of that way.
Jeff:
They don’t think of that way.
Casey:
Yeah, and that’s busted.
Jeff:
And somewhere along the line, that’s switched.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And I think it’s probably not coincidentally. That’s the rise of the corporation in the world --
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
-- where there are things like Disney that there are iconic things that they’ve done that is associated with this corporation that’s been around for like, you know, what is it now? Almost 90 years --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
They’ve been around.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And so the idea that Mickey Mouse is the property, that isn’t a property, that was a lease that they had, it doesn’t make sense to people ‘cause they didn’t grow up but that’s what it is.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
We can’t ever forget that because corporations are never going to die.
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
They are --
Casey:
Not anymore.
Jeff:
They will outlive people, right?
Casey:
They’re just going to get bought, if anything. They’re just going to be bought by other corporation.
Jeff:
Right. Right.
Casey:
They’re not going to ever go away.
Jeff:
And to make this clear, that’s the first time this has happened, right?
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Like corporations are about 100 years old, which means they’re just now getting to the point where they’re outliving people.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
That their older than any --
Casey:
For the first time.
Jeff:
That this corporation is now older than any other person on earth, right?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
They have become the bigger thing. And because of that, we need to watch this [expletive] because otherwise, all the [expletive] that Disney does where they do Hunchback of Notre Dame, The Little Mermaid, all these [expletive] which are based on public domain [expletive] --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- that we told our kids long ago --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- is now theirs.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And you can just just do the thought experiment --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- of that over 500 or 1000 years where Disney Co gets --
Casey:
Right -- owns all stories, all stories that exist, yeah.
Jeff:
that they eventually owns all all things and in like every time you go, ‘Oh OK, I did the start crossed lovers and their families and they’re like.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
We own Romeo and Juliet --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- because we base the story about two [expletive] puppies on that.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
We annexed this public domain idea --
Casey:
Yes, yes.
Jeff:
-- like a city sucking up suburbs --
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
-- in these hours’, and as long as they keep throwing money at congress, they’ll keep standing that ‘Copyright will never go away!’
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
They’ll eventually own everything, and you’ll either work for Disney, if you’re a creative person and like to make something.
Casey:
That’s right.
Jeff:
You work for Disney or you’ll dig ditches.
Casey:
Yeah, yeah.
Jeff:
And you don’t see that as a scary thing, then you just aren’t doing the math. It’s what’s going to happen no matter what. There’s no other way for that to go.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And even setting aside the fact that like --
Casey:
Well, part of the problem there that is also like originally, their I don’t feel like there was as much of a problem with copyright proximity as there is now.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
In the old days it wouldn’t really be a problem for other companies. The sort of what you were suggesting there is that there’s like ‘Oh, I can’t come up with another Romeo and Juliet story because Disney already has one.’
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
But now, they’re starting to be real risk of that actually happening --
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
-- because a lot of these lawsuits is like Apple looking fee law suits.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And it was like you should have never have been able to sue people for similarity based up --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Because copyright is more about uh particular expression.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Not about that in all of its related expressions.
Jeff:
Well, right. You see that’s --
Casey:
But you’re absolutely right now that like I don’t know what would happen now if they try to usher Romeo and Juliet. In the past, it would have been very easy that like no, everyone can write Romeo and Juliet. You just can’t use the exact one that they did.
Jeff:
Why?
Casey:
Now it is. I don’t know anymore.
Jeff:
Because that whole similarity thing is really creepy --
Casey:
It’s very creepy.
Jeff:
-- because --Then you’re like wait a second, I don’t own necessarily the okay this initial thing was for me.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Though I wrote the story and I’m going to get some royalties from that story over ten years --
Casey:
It’s just to get you some royalties.
Jeff:
-- and maybe I bought some house.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And like I got set up.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And like okay yeah, I advanced the arts.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Now, it’s about like I can attach to something else that they created --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
and can either force them to come to a bargaining table and I get a piece and all this.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
We’re like movies sue other movies because they’re similar —
Casey:
Yeah, it becomes a sort of more business machinations and not about the creative process anymore.
Jeff:
Right. It’s gone. And it’s gone and all that it’s --
Casey:
It’s not about that, yeah, yeah.
Jeff:
That’s going to just become bigger.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Because right now, we’re just at the point where they’re outliving us.
Casey:
That’s correct.
Jeff:
Right. Corporate they’re we’re right. This is an important point in time.
Casey:
That’s a good point. We’re at a very we’re at a terminal crux point there, yeah.
Jeff:
Yeah, it’s like wait a second, there are most are old as citizen because corporations have rights. They are considered a citizen like now there’s this weird thing.
Casey:
Now my -- I kind of wanted to bring That’s right. I kind of want to bring this up at some point on the podcast, and now, it seems like a good time because it’s sort of dovetails pretty nicely in here, which is sort of what the problem the problem of corporations. ‘Cause I’ve never actually heard anyone mention this.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
But it seems to me to be sort of this situation.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
The reason why that should be scary to you if it’s not, just in general, which is that it seems to me that a lot of the problem with corporations that are not problems with human beings individually, is that in a corporation, you assign narrow jobs to individuals.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And what this leads to is the fact that someone’s selection and advancement in a particular part of that corporation is based upon a successful execution of the job that they were assigned.
Jeff:
Right. Not only that. They’re kind of required legally —
Casey:
They are required legally to do it. They are so --
Jeff:
-- in a public company made to do that job as well as they can.
Casey:
Everyone agrees that they are supposed to be doing it. That is their job. That is what they were hired for, which means that if you believe at anytime, that this corporation might need legal representation for copyright infringement, then there will be someone whose job it is, perhaps, multiple someone, depending on someone’s company.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Whose job it is to enforce their copyright claims against other corporations --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
-- or people who may be infringing. At this point, what you have created, which you will never create with individual, is someone who, when there is no legitimate reason to execute that, is now in the position where they can’t kind of have to look for ways to expand the scope of what they would have been doing so that they still have a job, essentially, right?
Jeff:
Okay, right.
Casey:
You create incentives for these narrow slices of operation in the company to over achieve --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
-- which sometimes, if you’re talking about the department that’s making the movies, is good.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
You want those people to be thinking of how they can do things better, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
But if it’s in the case of something that you don’t want to go past these boundaries, too bad, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
As is the case with like a financing arm.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I saw some problems with that sort of thing happening, right?
Jeff:
Yeah, for the last couple of years.
Casey:
As it Right. And the reason is because if you’re an individual, and you’re doing these things for yourself, right? It will be like, I write the book and I maybe, file a lawsuit if I feel like someone infringing me or whatever, right? I go hire a lawyer to do that or whatever.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
If I’m an individual, I’m prioritizing and thinking about these things as all part of what I do and what’s the most important thing for me to be doing at this time.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
But a corporation, necessarily, has all of these actors and they are part of their success and growth within the company. It’s just predicated on them, convincing other people around them that they need to do more of what they’re doing.
Jeff:
Okay, sure.
Casey:
So I just feel like the feedback loop in a corporation just --
Jeff:
-- is incorrect.
Casey:
Wait, it doesn’t --
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Corporations are not set up such that the individual actors in them are encouraged to look at what they’re doing and go ‘We don’t need as much of what I’m doing as we’re doing right now. --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
-- I’m going to limit that.’
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
It’s all these appositive.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And so the only time you ever get pruning there --
Jeff:
So what you need to do Yeah.
Casey:
is that someone higher up.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Goes ‘No, we need less of that.’ So it’s almost like your counting on someone else seeing through your [expletive] layer --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
-- because those people are never going to say, ‘You know what? You need to fire some of us.’
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
They’re never going to get that report, right?
Jeff:
Right. What you need then, what you need is to always hire people that don’t really want the job.
Casey:
Yeah [chuckles], yeah.
Jeff:
Because you want them to not they want you they want to get they want to do their job well enough that they’re no longer required.
Casey:
Right. Right. Well this But I again, one this is --
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I think this is part of just the systemic problem but if you look across --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
-- collections of individuals, this is the problem. You get the same problem that government, where you have things like you know, why is the military out of control, they’re -- whatever the [expletive], --
Jeff:
There’s this feedback system.
Casey:
-- and it’s the same reason it’s just well, at some point, we aside that we need someone who is in charge of designing bombs.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Well, at that point, that division will grow as far as you’ll let it grow because that’s their job.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
They’re sitting around, trying to convince people that their department needs more money.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
That’s their job now. We need more bombs. We need better bombs, bigger bombs that seem to blow up more people with a single bomb, whatever the [expletive], --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
-- and that’s just what happens. A single individual would prioritize and go, ‘You know what? Maybe we need more humanitarian aide. --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
-- I don’t really need the bomb anyone right now, so I’m not going to work on that.’
Jeff:
Well, it’s just once you have multiple people together in a group, all doing their little different little thing out inside this group, right?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
They’re just going to keep trying to make their part of that group bigger --
Casey:
Right, and in almost, in almost yeah.
Jeff:
-- and the whole group doesn’t have the high mind that goes --
Casey:
That’s right.
Jeff:
‘Hold on, hold on. Let’s bring that on that.’
Casey:
That other person who says we need more bombs is lying, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So it ends up sort of being more about what particular person happen to get hired for that thing. If they’re a loser, --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
-- then, there’s never going to be money for bombs ‘cause they fail to be able to communicate that fact.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
If they’re very persuasive, then, it doesn’t matter, whether you needed more bombs or not. That’s what you’re going to get --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
-- ‘cause he’s going to convince other people. He’s going to find creative ways to convince other people that they need more bombs.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So, I just you know, I just think --
Jeff:
Well, there’s this other right.
Casey:
-- that it’s inevitable and you end up with this problem like with the Disney situation.
Jeff:
Well, I --
Casey:
And it’s out of control.
Jeff:
I think the thing that people…It’s hard to explain like especially growing up for the last hundred years in the existence of corporations that IBM has been around all these [times] --
Casey:
You’re just used to them.
Jeff:
They’re the pillars. You’re just used to them.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like even though that there’s this alien concept --
Casey:
They’re new.
Jeff:
-- that they are new.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
They are barely older than our oldest human right now.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But the thing that I would that I think that’s important there, because you need to have a way to imagine this in the absence of this thing that we grew up with, these corporations.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And that is like, look, imagine we made a robot.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Okay? And he can live forever.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And he’s really strong.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Right? And there’s these people that we hire to run the robot.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Okay? And the robot leaves among us. He goes to work and he does whatever, but he’s better than us.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
He’s stronger than us.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
He has more money ‘cause he lives longer.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
So he just keeps getting interest, right?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
He’s getting bigger and bigger —
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
-- and more powerful. Now, the people that the robot that are running the robot eventually die --
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Now, the -- what the the thing is the robot though, has all the money in his name.
Casey:
Yeah, yeah.
Jeff:
The robot owns the account.
Casey:
So someone else is going to try to control the robot.
Jeff:
So, -- Well, wait. Eventually, what happens is the robot says, ‘I’m going to hire my people to run me.’ Right? So the robot now is like putting people to run himself in ways that like, ‘You know what? I think I need a person that’s going to run me. That’s kind of in favour of robots eating humans,’ or something, right?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like it’s this crazy where like this robot who lives next toward you is eventually
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- going to own everything because he lives longer than you.
Casey:
The sensible thing to do is destroy the robot.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
That’s what you do if you’re a bunch of smart —What function would you like? We need --
Jeff:
Well, imagine yeah just imagine --
Casey:
to destroy the robot before it kills us all.
Jeff:
Forget the corporation. Imagine this robot --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- being remotely controlled by people.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Sometimes people you don’t even know.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Remotely or some wireless thing.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And the robot is going around and he starts out with very little rights, right?
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And originally, the corporation, -- the corporation ‘corp robot’ thing, --
Casey:
Corpbot.
Jeff:
Yeah -- corpbot didn’t have a lot of rights.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
But gradually, corpbot became -- he had the freedom of speech.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Like he starts to get these rights that humans do.
Casey:
Most of them know if he has a freedom of speech.
Jeff:
Well, that’s what actually --
Casey:
It’s up right now.
Jeff:
-- it’s up right now. Right, exactly. So what you have is you have this robot that like he’s like in teen fortress where the spy has the little piece of paper over his head.
Casey:
Yeah [chuckles].
Jeff:
He’s like a robot that’s pretending to be human --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And like somewhere along the line, we’ve thought it’s okay. And he’s around us all the time, and we pretend that the robot’s one of us but he’s not. He’s going to live forever.
Casey:
It’s very confusing too because nobody likes corporations.
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
Like if you ask the average person about like ‘You know what? Do you think Nike is awesome?’ They’re not like No. I mean, yeah they’re like ‘Yeah Nike is awesome.’ I’d like corporations but then --
Jeff:
Yeah. It’s this familiarity thing like nostalgia mixed in --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- with something you know since you were a kid
Casey:
That’s right.
Jeff:
And like Disney, like they put in this lovely kid movies and all these but you can’t think about it like what you grew up with or distort you’re thinking. You have to imagine these are robot, because that’s what he is. He’s this artificial construction that’s being controlled by people --
Casey:
But no, I guess I’m sorry I guess I need to say that probably, I’m kind of a little spent at this point.
Jeff:
Yeah, we’re very it’s late.
Casey:
I’m sorry. What I’m trying to say is no, people don’t seem to like them though, public opinion wise. Like people are always complaining about big corporations doing this or doing that, right? Like they seem to be they don’t like these corporations, right? Like it doesn’t seem to be like [unintelligible] but yet, nobody ever acts on that dislike somehow.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Which I don’t understand.
Jeff:
Well, that’s simple. It’s like the people that can act upon it in the congress, and congress gets an [expletive] ton of money from them. It’s like you can hate corporations all you want.
Casey:
But there’s not going to be any counties to vote for you.
Jeff:
When you’re in power, you’re not going to do anything about it.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
There’s no way you’re going to do that.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But what’s going to happen is eventually, it’s going to eat itself.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
It won’t take long.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It will be 200 — 250 years where Disney literally owns -- they’ll be like five corporations don’t own everything.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
They’ll have more money and then there’ll be the French revolution and we’ll start over.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
‘Cause it will have to be --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You can’t do exponential growth --
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
-- forever.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It doesn’t work that way.
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
And interest, it’s the exponential growth.
Casey:
That’s right.
Jeff:
All that money in Disney’s coffers --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- that Disney will exist forever.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Or let’s say, Microsoft.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Microsoft will list rep [??].
Casey:
Yeah, they have --
Jeff:
They have $40 billion in the bank.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Even if they make one%, they will eventually own everything on earth that somebody else isn’t doing anything. That is the power of interest. That’s the power of usury.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
It’s as that’s why people living for a length of time has worked.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Because that’s what exponential growth. That continues forever. Eventually, something spends it on something stupid. But a corporation just grows forever and ever, and ever until it was out.
Casey:
Well, I would have a corvee after that so I would have a corvee after that though, which is simply that we haven’t really tested the limits of those things yet, even on a personal level, largely, because human prosperity has not hit the boundaries of its resources until recently.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Like we’re starting to bump up against some of them now, but all of our ancestors have had the luxury of all these being able to access --
Jeff:
-- More [expletive].
Casey:
--more breeding grounds, more food, --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
-- more natural resources, --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
-- and so at some level they never had to deal with the fact that exponential growth runs out eventually.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
We probably will, if not us, then a hundred years from now, --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Those humans probably will. But you know, as a result, interest, and things like money that earns money just by sitting there, those -- sort of concepts that’s never been challenged, they don’t work.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Like it can’t keep going. But you know, whatever.
Jeff:
Well, what’s with that? I think what used to happen is, eventually you have somebody that’s no longer any good at what they do.
Casey:
So it [adrains] it.
Jeff:
And then, they don’t exist. But like the Microsoft Corporation, if they finally go ‘You know what? We’ve lost our power’, like --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
They could become just like a holding ground.
Casey:
A giant pit of money.
Jeff:
Like a huge mutual funds type thing. And investing in stuff and eventually, we probably don’t have to worry too much about the entertainment industry, because there are a billion people in India --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- that the percentage of people that are creative is pretty constant in a society. They’re all working on [expletive]. They are working for low money, and eventually, --
Casey:
Well, let’s not forget the fact too that --
Jeff:
That will be free like [laughs] Go ahead. Entertainment is artificially valuable right now.
Casey:
Yes. Everyone in their [expletive] basement is going make an album and it’s as good as a Britney Spears album.
Jeff:
[laughs]
Casey:
It’s just right, it’s like whatever, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And so, like and by the way, you’re born hot so it’s now like you’re not doing any work. You just find whoever the best looking person is on your block, right? And you make --
Jeff:
And like ‘Will you record this for me?’
Casey:
Yes, exactly.
Jeff:
You’re on the thing.
Casey:
You’re on there.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So at some level, we don’t need and this is I guess it gets back to sort of the original point. Is that, again, the whole point here is to promote the arts and sciences.
Jeff:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
And at some level, like if you look at movies right now, you look at video games, and it is true, in general, that if you didn’t put a lot of money into making them, you would actually get worse ones -- sort of on the average, right? There are movies that are being made right now that if you didn’t put a $100 million, you wouldn’t be able to make that?
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Okay? And that is true.
Jeff:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
Music? Not true anymore.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Music is produce-able with absolutely no additional large money incentive, anymore at all. People there are people with a [expletive]
Jeff:
But wait, wait. But movies that --
Casey:
single guitar on a side walk, making better [expletive] than [expletive] like
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
the latest EMI release.
Jeff:
But 20 years, that’s movies.
Casey:
20 years, that’s movies, games, or whatever? All these, right?
Jeff:
Maybe 50 years. Yeah. But yeah.
Casey:
So the thing that I just wanted to sort of underscore there is that all of this money that people were like the RIA has no real complaint in my mind, basically.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Like in my opinion, they don’t need any of the money they’re getting in the music industry. They are not producing a product that we need to spend that money on.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
People, for free, will make the music is as good. End of story.
Jeff:
Yeah. Well, what’s going to happen, I think that thing that scares me though, I agree with that. But the thing that’s going to happen is I think you’ll like the idea is there’ll be this explosion of creativity like everybody can make an album and so all these people that previously couldn’t afford to are going to make this. You’re going to hear voices and opinions and awesome stuff that you never heard before and --
Casey:
I’d say any of that.
Jeff:
Wait, wait, wait.
Casey:
All right.
Jeff:
But that’s the idea like you’re empowering everybody. However, what you have now is you have corporations that are going to become less powerful as everybody can make anything.
Casey:
Yeah
Jeff:
And the only thing they have to fight back against everybody else is this control that they’ve been artificially given.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Because any company, as soon as it’s starting to go down --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- will fight back in a dirty way.
Casey:
Yes, they will.
Jeff:
So if they have all this power, they keep doing it like all these like this explosion of movies that’s coming out of Bollywood, right? They’re not very good now.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But they’re doing whether they’re like we do a movie every three months.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like their iteration time is they’re going to catch the [expletive] up to us --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- really fast. Maybe ten years from now, they’re doing stuff that’s on par with everything else, right?
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And when the --
Casey:
Practice, practice usually.
Jeff:
It’s practice.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It’s putting in that silly thing, like putting $10,000 probably [expletive] --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- but the idea is you do get better with things.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And their turn-around-time is better.
Casey:
With Malcolm Gladwell [??] wrote it, it’s almost guarantee-ably incorrect.
Jeff:
Yes [laughs]
Casey:
But let’s say, there’s some number of hours --
Jeff:
Let’s say it right, yeah, let’s say there’s something.
Casey:
Who knows what it is? Yeah.
Jeff:
So but what’s going to happen is eventually, Disney will have a [expletive}. These guys are now doing stuff that’s on par like the CG [sp] is just as good as our stuff, and like, --
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
-- we make all of our money our space movies --
Casey:
And they will they buy India.
Jeff:
And then, they’re just going to go ‘Well, I’m either to going to sue somebody that comes out, I own the copyright on anything with a spaceship that talks.’
Casey:
With the hunchbacks yeah.
Jeff:
It’s spaceships that talk, hunchbacks; they’re going to slowly accrete all ideas --
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
-- and if you come out, they’re going to sue them and before we know, we’re like what the [expletive] happened here?
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And the only thing we can hope for then is finally congress will get sick enough and then just go, ‘You know what? That’s over. We will return -- ’
Casey:
Or any of those will go ‘[expletive] you’.
Jeff:
Yeah. India could turn it around.
Casey:
We have nuclear weapons so --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So you can’t invade us. And we’re going to keep making movies.
Jeff:
[laughs] That’s true.
Casey:
And you know what? Good! Right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
You know what? Good for you.
Jeff:
Oh!
Casey:
You should [expletive] make movies.
Jeff:
So, everybody, you know, go buy a video game. [laugh] Buy some video games this weekend. [laughs] Oh my [].
Casey:
Yeah, I mean, like I said, you know, I understand that it is unfortunate --
Jeff:
I’d like like I say, I support copyright. I like the like--
Casey:
I said that at the opening that I support the copyright.
Jeff:
I like 17-year copyright.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Like that’s more than enough time for me to get any money out of the --
Casey:
I totally agree.
Jeff:
-- society that I’m going to get, right?
Casey:
Yes. I totally agree.
Jeff:
At some point, you go ‘We paid enough for Star Wars.’ --
Casey:
Exactly.
Jeff:
‘It’s been 20 years.’
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
‘It’s ours now.’
Casey:
That’s right.
Jeff:
And like but that’s but that’s what happened --
Casey:
Well if anyone --
Jeff:
So 17 years, go back to the original number.
Casey:
Yes, 17 years.
Jeff:
Back to the original numbers, I’m fine with that.
Casey:
I could not agree more like if I put something out, I don’t feel like if I can’t get sufficient --
Jeff:
If I can extract s a sufficient value in 17 years, --
Casey:
17 years, [expletive] it.
Jeff:
-- you suck. You’re just you’re ideas in that grade. Back away. And then --
Casey:
I agree. And you know, you brought up Star Wars and that is a perfect example. Anyone who thinks that somehow, giving all of this money in control to the person who originally did the thing will mean that it will result in better --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
More [integress] products in the future, I think you got your answer.
Jeff:
Yeah, you can prove it there.
Casey:
You got your [expletive] answer there.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
If anyone thinks that it wouldn’t have been better to let other people make Star Wars movies, --
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I don’t know what to say to you.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Charge our banks. That’s what I’m going to say to you.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
He will rape your memories.
Casey:
[laughs]
Jeff:
Right? Little parts of your mind --
Casey:
Yeah --
Jeff:
He’s I mean over a car --
Casey:
With an alien [cock].
Jeff:
Mm-hmm. Exactly.
Casey:
Then, he named something cute.
Jeff:
[laughs]
Casey:
Right?
Jeff:
All right, everybody, I’m almost sweaty.
Casey:
It’s a [cockle too].
Jeff:
[laughs] Stop it.
Casey:
Right?
Jeff:
[laughs] Send us an email, --
Casey:
Casey:
It’s like the evil race of [rapeons]
Jeff:
-- if you agree or disagree with us. I’d like if somebody can come up with some rational reason for --
Casey:
Like a 90-year copyright.
Jeff:
-- more than 17 years --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- is necessary, --
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
-- you’ll have to explain it to us.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
We’re in the intellectual property business. I don’t see any reason for it.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Send us an email, podcast@jeffandcaseyshow.com.
Casey:
But Jeff, what’s going to happen when you can no longer, after 17 years, you’ve got to give smacker away?
Jeff:
Smacker is -- It’s out. They’ve reversed engineered the format. It’s out there.
Casey:
Oh no!
Jeff:
We still sell it to occasionally, people who just want the support and stuff.
Casey:
Really? Yeah.
Jeff:
Like educational titles are still eight-bit they still use it--
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
they’re like it’s out there.
Casey:
For our poor children to still play native videos.
Jeff:
Oh, yeah. The people do it. I don’t know, it’s crazy, it’s crazy.
Casey:
All right.
Jeff:
All right, everybody, also you can check us out at Facebook and Twitter, and we like to hear from people, especially like on contentious things like this. Our last one, we got a lot of emails that enjoyed and laughed at.
Casey:
Yes, yes.
Jeff:
Again, so yeah. Send us a mail and we will see you next week.
Casey:
Have a good week.
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casey muratori
the jeff and casey show - season 2 - episode 18
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