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The Technician
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The Jeff and Casey Show
Jeff and Casey Time
Casey Muratori
Seattle, WA
Don't Copy That - Part I
Original air date: September 21st, 2009
Topics. id Software. Doom 3. SIIA. Britney Spears. Digital Protector. Don’t Copy That. Copyright. The Constitution.
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Transcript
Jeff:
Hey everybody. Welcome to the Jeff and Casey show.
Casey:
Hello and welcome to the Jeff and Casey show. Jeff, I just wanted to say one thing because I don’t think that we’ve addressed this.
Jeff:
What’s this?
Casey:
Previously on the show, when we produce an episode of the Jeff and Casey show. . .
Jeff:
When we labor over one.
Casey:
When we labor to produce the high quality content that people enjoy when they listen to the Jeff and Casey show. . .
Jeff:
When we do meticulous research for every show.
Casey:
Meticulous research. When we dot our I’s and cross our T’s to turn a phrase. I just want to remind everybody that that is property of Jeff and Casey, okay? We own this podcast, all right? It’s not your podcast.
Jeff:
Any thoughts that are presented here. . .
Casey:
Are our thoughts. Okay. You can’t just go copying the show around. . .
Jeff:
Willy nilly.
Casey:
. . .giving it to your friends, copying it to all these portable devices that the kids use today, posting it on the internets or whatever it is that they do. Unacceptable.
Jeff:
Criminal.
Casey:
Every single use of the Jeff and Casey show should be done through Jeff and Casey with our written permission.
Jeff:
If you would like to give the show to somebody then you should send us an email at jeffandcaseyshow.com and we’ll let you know if it’s okay.
Casey:
That’s right. Contact our legal department. Now as those of you have listened to us for a long time know we don’t mean a single word of any of that. It is simply the introduction to our show on copyright which has been shall I say, that the flames of which have been fanned, if you will, by the release of a new video from our friends. . .
Jeff:
At the SIIA.
Casey:
Well they changed the name. It used to be the ESA and the IDSA and they had all these one. I don’t know who is who anymore because I can’t tell which one of these groups morphed into which ones but it’s called now The Software and Information Industry Association.
Jeff:
Right. So this is like the guys that used to be the BSA, they’re like a lobbyist group for software manufacturers that kind of tilts over towards entertainment software. There’s a lot of game companies in there and office kind of stuff.
Casey:
Yeah. It says here that it was basically merged with the Information Industry Association.
Jeff:
Of course.
Casey:
And the Software Publishers Association.
Jeff:
You know, I knew those two were going to hook up.
Casey:
They merged.
Jeff:
You know, right.
Casey:
Yeah, you knew it. You could see it the whole time. You’re like they’re making eyes at each other.
Jeff:
They were right for each other.
Casey:
I like it when two organizations with generic names that nobody knows what they do or who funds them merge to form one similar organization that nobody knows.
Jeff:
It’s like a superhero team up, you know.
Casey:
Right. Well, it’s a superhero team up if it is two superheroes that nobody every reads. Like plastic man and the toxic avenger.
Jeff:
It would be more like two superheroes that were really bad, didn’t have any super powers, they teamed up together, that’s what you kind of get out of these things.
Casey:
Right, or two sidekicks.
Jeff:
Yeah, okay, two sidekicks.
Casey:
It’s like I can’t wait to see, you know, this sort of Robin and Wonder Girl team up. It’s going to be awesome. It’s like no. No one is going to read that company.
Jeff:
And P.S. they made out the entire weekend.
Casey:
Right, exactly.
Jeff:
And they didn’t use any protection.
Casey:
Wait, Robin is straight? Is that true? I’m actually asking that question legitimately. Is Robin straight?
Jeff:
Yeah, Robin’s straight.
Casey:
Okay. I don’t know this. Batman and Robin, I didn’t know if there was like some, what happened there exactly.
Jeff:
No, I think there is some text there but I don’t think it was ever, you know.
Casey:
It seemed kind of like a old Greek and his page kind of relationship to me, right. It was like, I felt it was like, right? It’s like no gay shit, just a boy that I fuck occasionally, right?
Jeff:
Yeah, just two guys hanging out.
Casey:
It’s like that’s what I felt. Yeah, just two guys hanging out, you know. One of them happens to be younger, right. . .
Jeff:
No gay shit.
Casey:
. . .and like it just once in a while. Anyway, point being, this wonderful merger that formed the SIIA, apparently the old one of those subsidiaries there that merged into it were the people who originally brought you the video Don’t Copy That Floppy, which hopefully you’ve all seen because it is amazing.
Jeff:
It’s so bad.
Casey:
It’s so wonderful, it is a cultural icon at this point and what it was is a, I’m going to use the word rapper in the biggest quotes I can possibly because he wasn’t a rapper in the sense that he could rap. He couldn’t rap at all.
Jeff:
He was like, there was like, at that time there were that crazy thing where hip hop hadn’t come in to its own yet and people just. . .
Casey:
This was 1999, right, when it was or when was the Don’t Copy That Floppy?
Jeff:
Yeah, that’s a good question, I don’t know.
Casey:
Was it earlier than that?
Jeff:
I don’t know. But. . .
Casey:
Let me look that up.
Jeff:
. . .there was a thing where like the movie Breakin came up with OG.
Casey:
What’s that?
Jeff:
A break dancing movie and like hip hop hadn’t entered into like it hadn’t come into its own. You had not seen Public Enemy. You hadn’t seen NWA, you hadn’t seen these bands, so what you had is people thinking rap was just this happy guy that is kind of talking and rhyming.
Casey:
Ah, okay. That’s all they knew. They didn’t know what it was really supposed to be.
Jeff:
They didn’t know like hip hop was this other thing which shares probably more to do with like you know, slam poetry, that it does to do with black guys semi-singing rhyme.
Casey:
Okay, so they, so there is a bunch of old white guys at this software industry thing and they are like, ‘Okay, here’s what we’ve got out of it. They’re black, they’re happy, and they rhyme.’ That was what they, they looked around and that’s what they got out of it.
Jeff:
They’re happy black men. They’re super happy black men.
Casey:
Wow. Wow.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
That’s awesome.
Jeff:
And that’s why things like when Public Enemy and Ice-T and those guys came out they were like, they were pulling, that’s why all the shit with like, what’s his name, Gore’s wife, that bitch that was like putting the stickers on everything.
Casey:
Oh, really? Tipper? Tipper Gore.
Jeff:
Yeah, that was all with Niggers, Niggers with Attitude, NWA, when they came out with that album, Straight out of Compton, and all that stuff where it was like blow your mind with like rhymes that. . .
Casey:
Oh, because Tipper Gore freaked out because. . ..
Jeff:
Yeah, she was losing her mind with that with and this went all the way back in to the mid ‘80s and it kind of hit with that.
Casey:
I see. So they’re like oh my God, they aren’t happy black people.
Jeff:
It’s like they don’t like, I thought they just went around the slums singing before they came here to clean my house.
Casey:
Awesome.
Jeff:
Like, no, they didn’t know. . .
Casey:
Tipper Gore. She’s quality.
Jeff:
Yeah, they didn’t have any, and then when things like Public Enemy came out, which had like, you’re like holy shit not only are they singing little rhymes like they mean something and they are powerful and like uh, so they had no idea. So, this came out before that. This was like Fresh Prince kind of like. . .
Casey:
So I looked it up while you were saying that, by the way. It’s 1992, when they started it.
Jeff:
That’s later than I thought.
Casey:
It is, that’s pretty late actually, but yeah.
Jeff:
Yo MTV Rocks I think was on then. That was the big seminal thing that. . .
Casey:
Well, okay, but this is the software industry. They don’t know shit about shit, right? I mean, they were people in their parent’s garage whatever the fuck, they made some money with an Apple II, who knows what happened, and now they are like, you know, running some big corporation.
Jeff:
Okay. All right.
Casey:
So anyway, point being, they started this campaign in 1992 called Don’t Copy That Floppy, which was trying to convince people not to pirate their software.
Jeff:
We were on floppies in 1992, even? Wow.
Casey:
Yes. We were still on floppies in 1992.
Jeff:
Like when Windows 3.1 came out on 10 disks.
Casey:
Well because CD roms weren’t burnable still in 1992, I don’ think.
Jeff:
Oh, okay.
Casey:
But I’m sure they were but it wasn’t like everyone had one, right. A CD burner was probably a pretty novel thing. I remember because I interned at Microsoft in 1994. Right? When I was in school. At that time it was pretty swanky that they had a CD burner in 1994 and it doesn’t fucking work at all because this is before they figured out the thing about how you, like this is awesome, you just take moment to just talk about the fact. . .
Jeff:
To go back in time.
Casey:
. . .that the old days when you had to burn a CD rom and they hadn’t figured out the buffering so that if the data couldn’t be read off of the hard drive in time, you couldn’t burn it.
Jeff:
And you fucked the disc up.
Casey:
Right, it’s like what?
Jeff:
You’d fuck the disc up. . .
Casey:
Like they couldn’t turn the laser off or something.
Jeff:
. . .and the discs were like $15 and so like if you’re like, you start a burn and then you’re like maybe I’ll just move over my mouse and oh fuck data under run.
Casey:
Yeah, exactly.
Jeff:
Oh, down the toilet.
Casey:
This was funny because this was in the days when like so at that time you would still be excited about the fact that if you’re interning at Microsoft you could like get copies of all the Microsoft shit, right. Like, you could burn a copy of Office if you wanted. I don’t know if it was frowned up or whatever but you totally could. Like, any intern could do this and it was not a problem, you could just do whatever the fuck you want. So like that is sort of the difference — me then and me now, is like back then I’d be like oh my God you could burn a copy of like Windows 3.5.1 whereas now I’d be like. . .
Jeff:
Now that’s a punishment.
Casey:
. . .I’d be like oh for fuck’s sake, I don’t want that shit. Like God damn it. Yeah.
Jeff:
You’ve been a terrible programmer this month. Your punishment is to burn a copy of Windows 7.
Casey:
Exactly. You have to install a copy of Windows 7. You’re like no. Like the last. . .
Jeff:
Please no.
Casey:
. . .if there is one thing that I don’t want it’s the latest Microsoft software. Like anything but that, right? The latest version of Vizio Studio, like please Lord, no. Like if you gave me a free copy I would send it back to you and be like I don’t want this.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Anyway, point being this video. . .
Jeff:
And so this video, yeah, this video was about copying.
Casey:
. . .for Don’t Copy That Floppy.
Jeff:
It’s embarrassing.
Casey:
It’s really bad. It involves this rapper and the software, the industry association that put this out at the time is now. . .
Jeff:
He’s DP, rapper DP. Data Protection.
Casey:
. . .is DP. Data Protector or something like this.
Jeff:
Yeah, Data Protector.
Casey:
So the SIIA of today is looking back over its history going, ‘Boy, that sure was a cheesy video.’
Jeff:
Yeah, that was ridiculous.
Casey:
But we still want to spread the message today in 2009.
Jeff:
Mm-hmm. Because propaganda is so effective.
Casey:
Propaganda was so effective then because nobody copied any software after that. They were just like oh my gosh.
Jeff:
Once that came out it just stopped.
Casey:
That was it. Yeah. Exactly.
Jeff:
It’s amazing what a happy black man will do.
Casey:
It’s amazing, it’s absolutely amazing. And so it turns out that they decided to produce another video and they figured out the would solve the problem, they would solve the problem of people not taking the old video seriously by referencing the old video and going oh, how cheesy was that? Now we’re so much cooler. The way they did was by getting the same rapper, who by the way, has not improved. . .
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
. . .in the, what is it? 18, no, 17 years.
Jeff:
But he has become angrier. Did you notice he’s not a happy black man so much.
Casey:
He has become angrier. He’s not happy. He got the fact that rap is supposed to be angry.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Unfortunately, has not improved the rap at all. Rap is still the same. The dancing, if anything, got worse, which you would not think would be possible because the dancing in the original video. . .
Jeff:
We should talk about the dancing in a second.
Casey:
. . .is pretty terrible.
Jeff:
Pretty sucky. Yeah.
Casey:
Point being, somehow that got worse. What they ended up doing was going okay, look, we know that the Don’t Copy The Floppy thing was silly so what we’re going to do today is rap to you about not copying other things now. Because floppies, that’s old school.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
We don’t want you to copy DVDs. Or CD roms.
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
Right? We don’t want you to use the internets to make copies so don’t copy that.
Jeff:
No. That’s the name of the song. Don’t Copy That.
Casey:
Don’t Copy That. Somehow it was totally lost on them that if you watch this video back to back with the other video you can essentially perceive no difference in lameness. The lameness has remained 100% constant and the reason for that, and I think that they missed this somehow when they looked at it. . .
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
. . .Don’t Copy That Floppy was not cheesy in retrospect.
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
This is not a hindsight is 20/20 situation. It was lame on the day it was made.
Jeff:
It was released. Yep.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Initially.
Casey:
It was lame at start.
Jeff:
Right. It didn’t age well. It started bad and remained bad.
Casey:
Yeah, it aged poorly, you mean.
Jeff:
Right. It’s like a piece of cheese that was bad at the store you brought home.
Casey:
And now it’s moldy too.
Jeff:
Yeah, it’s like it’s still bad cheese.
Casey:
It tasted bad to begin with.
Jeff:
It’s still bad cheese. You’re making bad cheese.
Casey:
Exactly.
Jeff:
Stop making that bad cheese.
Casey:
Don’t make the bad cheese. So this time around it seems to me that they just did the exact same thing, thinking that well now that it’s current it won’t be cheesy. But no, that wasn’t the problem before.
Jeff:
Right, exactly.
Casey:
The problem was not that you went bad, right. . .
Jeff:
It wasn’t about the floppy.
Casey:
No, it was not about the floppy.
Jeff:
It was not about the floppy. It was about the fact that you had this crazy man singing to you as if that’s going to change anything.
Casey:
It’s amazing. It’s amazing.
Jeff:
Right. So what they decided to do this time is they, he’s now angry.
Casey:
He’s angry. He’s wearing sunglasses.
Jeff:
And they have the crazy, they have the new modern auto-tuning little stuff going on. They have a crazy beat that’s got like some siren in it. A little scary. Now, what they have is they have a bunch of kids on the couch. . .
Casey:
Right, they’re sitting around, like maybe it’s a dorm room, maybe it’s a living room, somebody’s living room.
Jeff:
Right, all high as a kite, right? They are so high.
Casey:
Totally. Right. There’s a bunch of forced laughter as in the video the old Don’t Copy That Floppy video is shown on the television. They’re laughing, ‘Oh, how cheesy that was.’ Right.
Jeff:
You know what? And what they were really laughing at is the destruction this is going to do to their careers but. . .
Casey:
Yeah, exactly. They don’t know that yet. And these poor kids were selected out of like basically like a cross cultural sort of like spectrum. They were like, all right. . .
Jeff:
There has got to be a software, a piece of software out there somewhere. . .
Casey:
Whoever does the Beneton ads, get that guy for the casting for this thing.
Jeff:
I’m telling you, I bet there is a program, they’re like how many people are going to be in your ad and you say nine and it says okay, what you need is two black people, four white, and one Asian. Now in this case. . .
Casey:
They made a faux pas in my mind, okay. Right.
Jeff:
You picked up on this right away and I didn’t.
Casey:
I picked up on this right away because everyone knows that the software industry is always complaining about Chinese pirates. All the time.
Jeff:
Right. Those freaking pirates in China.
Casey:
They are all complaining about like Hong Kong factories that like print pirate CDs of Windows and all this shit.
Jeff:
DVDs and software. Right. You buy it on the street for $5. That’s what they always say.
Casey:
Pro tip: when you are making your don’t copy thing for the new millennium, don’t make the only person copying things Asian.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Okay, I wouldn’t have gone there. That seems to me like it could be interpreted poorly. Far be it for me to be politically correct. I’m never politically correct on this show but even I was a little bit nervous about their choice of making the only person in the shot who could be portrayed as Chinese, or perceived rather, as Chinese in some way, be the only one who does anything wrong.
Jeff:
Right. If fact, the rest of. . .
Casey:
That scene was risky.
Jeff:
In fact, some of the other characters in the video were actually disgusted by this copying. Now let’s talk about the copying.
Casey:
Yeah, let’s talk about the copying.
Jeff:
Now, I think the people that made this video, you know, they asked somebody to write a script. I’m pretty sure the person that wrote this script has never seen the internet. Or discs. Or copying of any kind. Because they had him they had this crazy. . .
Casey:
What’s the thing that you say here that’s called bit to rent. I don’t know what that is. Is that where you rent the bits from somebody? It’s like no, no, no.
Jeff:
Yeah, you know what, that’s too, you know what, we’re going for high level stuff. So they put this image that they have digitally superimposed over the computer because they couldn’t afford like the sequencer so that you don’t get the scan line.
Casey:
Well, nobody told them that LCDs don’t have bit frequencies with video cameras.
Jeff:
So they just left it off.
Casey:
They’re just fine. Whatever.
Jeff:
So they paste it on this thing and it’s a little graphic that says file uploading.
Casey:
Yeah, and it’s got a progress bar.
Jeff:
And it’s got a progress bar. Now if you. . .
Casey:
Meanwhile though, don’t forget to get the whole picture.
Jeff:
. . .now if you think like oh, okay, wait. Now oh, okay, they are on to it. They can understand that now. . .
Casey:
The internets.
Jeff:
No, they’re not. Because what he is doing while this is happening is inserting DVD-Rs in his computer. I don’t know how that’s related. . .
Casey:
He’s labeling them manually with a sharpie. Right. So this, this really damaging piracy operation that the SIIA has targeted here is. . .
Jeff:
Is a guy kicking out. . .
Casey:
. . .one dude manually labeling copies of a program on DVD.
Jeff:
Right. So what he’s doing. . .
Casey:
On his laptop.
Jeff:
. . .is making probably like. . .
Casey:
Probably five copies in an evening.
Jeff:
. . .he’s self limited by like what that DVD burner can do.
Casey:
Yeah, exactly.
Jeff:
He’s not that bad of a guy. But yet, in this video, he is the villain, Casey.
Casey:
Well he’s going to be in jail in a moment. I have to see the video.
Jeff:
Oh, okay.
Casey:
Now we don’t know what the file upload progress box is doing at this point, right. Because he’s uploading a file apparently, to nobody knows where.
Jeff:
It’s probably a picture of his mother but they’re insinuating that he is doing some illegal activity.
Casey:
Yes. So we have no idea what’s going on there. And presumably neither do they. They haven’t bothered to even figure out like how any modern peer to peer stuff works. Apparently, but like hey, big surprise there, they are only the software industry.
Jeff:
Yeah. How would they know about that?
Casey:
Of course, you’ll notice they’re probably people like Macrovision and shit who really actually don’t know how computers work, as evidenced by the fact that all of their software doesn’t work.
Jeff:
Right, breaks everything.
Casey:
Point being, at this point, after they sort of show him, you know sort of gratuitously copying these CDs and his friends look. You shouldn’t do that shit. And he’s like oh, fuck it, I’m not going to get caught. Like whatever. You know.
Jeff:
Right, right.
Casey:
They show this girl singing like she’s got kind of like these headphones on. They cut to like a studio, like the inside of a recording studio.
Jeff:
Well she leaves. I think it’s her that’s on the couch and then she leaves.
Casey:
Oh, she’s one of the girls in the, okay.
Jeff:
I assume that she was like inspired by this copying. . .
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
. . .to go cut a track.
Casey:
Okay, she’s going to go lay one down.
Jeff:
With what’s his name? MC DP.
Casey:
Oh, right. Yeah, DP. She’s going to help out by singing along. She’s going to be like sort of the sultry female singer who is going to sing the lead line for this particular rap. And she’s got the big ol’ head phones on, she’s singing in the microphone like she means it. Can’t sing worth a shit, okay.
Jeff:
No, not singing well.
Casey:
And she’s complaining about the fact that other people, like this dude who are copying stuff, are basically stealing from her. Okay? Now, here’s the thing that I just want to emphasize, if copying her songs around leads to her having to get a job doing something else — improvement.
Jeff:
Yep, better for the world.
Casey:
You are not doing anything to convince me that this theft has caused a problem if she’s the only causality.
Jeff:
Right, right. Well if you figure that probably 90% of the shit that is actually copied is things like Britney Spears, Hannah Montanna. . .
Casey:
No loss.
Jeff:
Right. We haven’t lost anything as a culture.
Casey:
That’s right.
Jeff:
It’s okay if Britney Spears cannot buy any more pharmaceuticals.
Casey:
That is correct.
Jeff:
It would probably improve her life.
Casey:
That is correct. On the other hand, it would raise the cost of pharmaceuticals to everyone else because she is probably subsidizing a large part of the budget there.
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
They’re like well if Britney Spears stopped buying, uh, I don’t know what a good drug is these days, uh, Xanax, I don’t know.
Jeff:
Xanax, yeah.
Casey:
Whatever the fuck people take.
Jeff:
I think Xanax is a good one.
Casey:
Do you think so? Okay. If she stops buying Xanax we’re going to have to raise our price across the board because she’s taking a lot more than anyone else. Anyways, point being, they then finish this with the talentless girl there and they show kind of like a montage of other things, not all of which were really clear to me how they are connected. The first one is a swat team going after a mom in her kitchen.
Jeff:
Because, well I think he sings the line where he’s like, you know they won’t go after me because I’m a minor, but they’re going to go after your momma. Okay and this is supposed to think about what you’re doing because you don’t want your momma in jail.
Casey:
Right. A couple of problems with this argument. I see a few.
Jeff:
Okay. Let me just say the one thing that bothers me about it. It’s like if that video, if people don’t see that video for what it is, which is the most horrifying abuse of like power and scare tactics and propaganda, like you know, we can’t threaten you so we’re going to threaten your family is what they are saying.
Casey:
With government agents. The swat team.
Jeff:
It’s like, you know, if you’re just thinking about yourself, if you do this, we’re going to go after your family, that is the most creep mother fucking message.
Casey:
Well not just we are, the police will. The police didn’t make this video.
Jeff:
The police is going to break down. . .
Casey:
So they are saying that they are going to send the government after you basically, right. Like it’s not the SIIA that goes after you.
Jeff:
You know what, go copy something right now for that. Like that, you insinuating that, as to you as a human being like you’re going to threaten my fucking family because I copied some fucking Britney Spears? Are you fucking insane? Like and that’s like a thing you’re going to teach the kids is like just fucking horrific. You’re going to fucking hell, whoever wrote that, right.
Casey:
This is probably true. This is probably true.
Jeff:
Straight to hell.
Casey:
Well the thing about that is too is how in your life like do you look at yourself, like these people, these SIIA people who I’ve never actually, despite being in the entertainment industry I guess, I’ve never met someone who told me like oh, I work for this organization or whatever. How do you sit around going like, and being okay with the fact that you’re like, you know what we really need to target ten year olds for copying so let’s threaten them with a swat team arresting their mother. How do you be okay with that as a fucking human being? If you think that the reason you’re losing money is ten year olds and that you then need to go after them. The solution is to scare them? You are a horrible fucking person.
Jeff:
Yeah, you’re going right to hell.
Casey:
End of story.
Jeff:
Right. It’s this crazy thing and yeah, okay, there’s another part of that I want to talk to.
Casey:
But fuck that. You don’t have to say they’re going out. That’s not going to deter them because they’ve already done enough bad things in their life that they’re going to hell anyway, right. If there was such a thing, which there isn’t. But. . .
Jeff:
Yeah, unfortunately.
Casey:
. . .they’re a bad human being period. It’s like you are just a waste of skin. You’re shit. You are shit as a person.
Jeff:
Because you wake up in the morning. . .
Casey:
You have no sense of perspective if that’s where you’re at.
Jeff:
Well, you wake up in the morning, you aren’t creating anything. . .
Casey:
You’re not doing nothing.
Jeff:
You aren’t protecting, you’re not like a policeman where you are actually protecting somebody from criminals or something. In fact, you’re wasting those people’s time. . .
Casey:
You’re sending the. . .
Jeff:
. . .with bullshit.
Casey:
Yeah, exactly.
Jeff:
None of this matters.
Casey:
You’re wasting their time.
Jeff:
None of this matters. Especially since the theft of digital media is the potential theft. It’s not an actual theft. Right? Like the idea that you’ve copied something and then gave it to somebody else does not imply that they would have bought it from you instead. Right?
Casey:
Right. It’s one of those like. . ..
Jeff:
Now that’s a tenuous thing but it still is you are prosecuting for something that may have been a crime, not is one, right.
Casey:
Well it’s the classic situation of there actually is no way to actually do the accounting because without going back in time and preventing the copying, you have no way of knowing, right? It’s the classic thing when people argue history, you can’t actually do it because you can only hypothesis and maybe use some kind of statistical measures but oftentimes you can’t. The point is though, yeah, it’s absolutely the case that we don’t even know how much of a crime you’ve committed at that point.
Jeff:
Right. So what you have is like these kind of pseudo crimes that you’re persecuting as this real thing, not because you want to, when they broke in and locked up that momma because of what he did. . .
Casey:
She like throws the wooden spoon at the swat team, right?
Jeff:
Right. She’s in curlers and shit.
Casey:
She’s in curlers. And the swat team is kind of jive like, they kind of do this sort of like weird pose because they are kind of like part of it.
Jeff:
Which honestly, if a swat team breaks in my door and breaks out in dance, like, I’m like what fucking drug have I taken?
Casey:
Drug did I take accidentally?
Jeff:
And what do I need to do to never take it again?
Casey:
Exactly, yeah.
Jeff:
So they start dancing. They take her to jail. So the thing is, is they are not going after her because she’s going to copy stuff in the future because, they’re not trying to stop.
Casey:
She didn’t copy stuff to begin with.
Jeff:
Well, the premise is we need to stop, like the premise for. . .
Casey:
Is it’s a deterrent.
Jeff:
Well, it’s a deterrent, we’re not. . .
Casey:
It’s a deterrent — we’ll lock up your mom if you copy shit.
Jeff:
You’re not punishing, well what I’m saying is even when they do lock the people up, it’s not to punish them, it is to punish the people who might do it again in the future. Right? And like punishment and sentencing where you are using the reason why you’re giving somebody a longer or shorter time as a rationale to prevent people from doing it in the future is like morally bankrupt. Like, that you can’t punish someone to prevent other people from doing something. That’s not how the world, I mean, even if that worked, you can’t punish one person for what other people might do in the future if you didn’t punish them.
Casey:
All though that is like the classic RIAA thing too. Jeff. No. No, it’s. . .
Casey:
That’s what they do. They like want to make examples of people.
Jeff:
It’s the argument for that it’s the argument for anything. If that argument ever comes up you know that person is morally bankrupt because that is an argument for the death penalty. It’s like you’re not preventing them from doing it again because we can keep them behind bars. What you’re trying to do is deter other people from doing it which means you’re punishing them for what other people might do in the future, which is fucking insane. I mean, forget about the fact of like, hey maybe you have one life and maybe you come back 1,000 times, if you believe in that shit, or not. It’s like a lot of the argument about the death penalty is like whether we should extinguish life because you can’t, there’s no undo on that.
Casey:
Right, yeah.
Jeff:
You forget that. Just forget about the logical thing of what you’re trying to do. You’re trying to kill somebody for the fact that you’re stopping somebody else from doing it in the future.
Casey:
Well they’re a symbol. They’re a symbol. Right? It’s the classic thing. . .
Jeff:
So chilling like as a fucking logical leap to make that it’s bizarre.
Casey:
Yeah, it’s a symbolic act and you apparently are okay with the fact that it happens and takes a human life in the process is like incidental to you, right? It’s like much like locking up someone’s mom with the swat team for copying.
Jeff:
For what her daughter did.
Casey:
It’s totally symbolic. It’s like no, this is not effective at all. Like, what good does that possibly do anybody?
Jeff:
They are not thinking about any of this so they’re doing this in this video as if it’s like this hip hoppy joke thing and you’re like. . .
Casey:
It’s like this isn’t funny.
Jeff:
. . .well this isn’t funny. This is horrific.
Casey:
This isn’t fucking funny at all.
Jeff:
Like these people’s lives are fucked and it’s like oh, it’s the momma throwing the wooden spoon. It’s like oh, oh, oh and she’s getting raped by a prison guard three days later. It’s like what the fuck?
Casey:
Yeah. No, it’s problematic. I guess the other thing that I would say about it is the larger, the sort of overall question, well you know we should finish the video first. Let’s finish the video first, then we’ll talk about. . .
Jeff:
Especially because I’m angry and I want to cool down.
Casey:
Okay, you’re going to cool down?
Jeff:
My voice is loud and then I start clipping and then I have to edit the podcast to make me not clip. . .
Casey:
Because you’re normally too quiet.
Jeff:
. . .and then all the extra work I do on this podcast because we spend so much time as we said at the beginning is double.
Casey:
To bring you this podcast.
Jeff:
And it brings it up to ten minutes of editing instead of five.
Casey:
Well, so anyway, you’ve got a talentless girl singing, an Asian person copying DVDs, I’m sure they chose that by accident.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
Yep, don’t blame them for that at all. You’ve got the swat team arresting the mom and then we go to some even less explicable things. Two Klingons.
Jeff:
Right, the Klingons.
Casey:
There are two Klingons.
Jeff:
And they look like they are copying.
Casey:
They just show up. One of the Klingons is copying a CD and the other Klingon says no, don’t do that. Like with body language.
Jeff:
I remember that in the next generation the episode where they had to stop the copying Klingons. Right?
Casey:
Yes, that’s right.
Jeff:
And Picard did that little maneuver and blocked the copy from being uploaded. . .
Casey:
Blocked the transmission, yes.
Jeff:
. . .to the intergalactic net. They stopped it just in time before, you know, the Britney Spears of Klingon. . .
Casey:
You’ll note that Gene Rodenberry was very careful to write in, in all of the initial Star Trek things, that media industries play a huge part in shaping our. . .
Jeff:
Exactly.
Casey:
Parentheses, do not show up at all. Ever. There is a reason for that. It’s because they are irrelevant.
Jeff:
Right. Have you noticed on Star Trek fifty years from now, nobody is watching reality TV.
Casey:
No, they’re not.
Jeff:
They’re not watching soap operas. They are not listening to Britney Spears.
Casey:
And they aren’t ads all over the side of the fucking starship either.
Jeff:
Oh, that’s the other thing.
Casey:
There’s not ads all over the fucking hull of the Starship Enterprise.
Jeff:
Hey, have you noticed that the Enterprise doesn’t have a Pennzoil sticker on the outside? It just says the thing, right? Like he did at least get the fact that like we will evolve someday past this shit that we’re in. I just don’t feel like it. I feel like we’re sinking deeper. . .
Casey:
We are sinking deeper.
Jeff:
. . .not leaping forward. Anyway, the Klingons are copying, in what looks like a dorm room, right?
Casey:
Yeah, exactly.
Jeff:
The Klingons just must be at like some Klingon College.
Casey:
It looks like a cube actually. It looks like a cubicle to me, like a, yeah, it didn’t even look like a dorm room. It looked like they were in some office somewhere like oh, just a couple of Klingons doing a day’s work. It’s like uh, well, you know, I’m not really that good at Star Trek lore but I mean I like the movies and I don’t remember Klingons having a real clean office like interior to many of their starships. Maybe that’s just my Star Trek naivety talking but. . .
Jeff:
Yeah, I mean they probably have little Klingon calendars and the Klingon script. It’s like Mondays are a downer.
Casey:
Yeah, exactly, with a little cat in the tree.
Jeff:
Yeah, a little Klingon cat with crazy teeth, you know saber tooth. Klingon cat. But here’s the thing, like all I’m thinking there is like, this guy writing this, again since we’ve established he doesn’t know what the fuck is going on because he. . .
Casey:
He probably doesn’t even know what a Klingon is.
Jeff:
He doesn’t, he’s like oh wait, wait, wait. All those tech guys are into. . .
Casey:
They like Star Trek.
Jeff:
. . .you know, the Trek-ory things with the saber wild light saber thingys. Yeah. We need some of them in there.
Casey:
Right, right.
Jeff:
So they drop them in there. Probably the worst. . .
Casey:
Okay, he thought he was like get me some people from Star Wars and the other person sent him some Klingons and he was like perfect.
Jeff:
Perfect. Exactly. I can’t believe how, we’re like, we’re on the same wavelength man.
Casey:
We totally connected me and you.
Jeff:
Yep, totally. Now there was one awesome thing, I don’t know if you noticed this, one of the Klingons. . .
Casey:
I did not notice this.
Jeff:
. . .is a Klingon but then he has a mustache that, like Klingons have the main Klingon, he looks. . .
Casey:
Has a mustache?
Jeff:
. . .like he’s supposed. I wish I could remember his name because I did watch Star Trek. He’s supposed to be the one time president or whatever, the chancellor of the Klingsons was.
Casey:
I have no idea what you’re talking about.
Jeff:
Anyway, he was like this great crazy butt guy.
Casey:
He has a mustache.
Jeff:
He has this thin little mustache. In this one you can tell the mask that they have is of that guy because it looks like a. . .
Casey:
Something that they bought at a store.
Jeff:
. . .but they look like they had put shoe polish over his lips so his mustache is completely two dimensional. Just straight across like shoe polish. You’re like.
Casey:
But that’s kind of in keeping of the production values of the rest of this video.
Jeff:
I guess. I’m just like you’ve got the whole mask, didn’t it come with that? Like ugh. Anyway. . .
Casey:
So then we get to perhaps what is the saddest part of this particular video.
Jeff:
Wait, the Klingon, is that the dancing? Because the Klingons dancing. . .
Casey:
No I wasn’t going. . .the dancing they have not started dancing yet, the Klingons.
Jeff:
Right, what we end up with. . .
Casey:
That’s later actually.
Jeff:
Oh, okay. Keep going then.
Casey:
That’s later. Because what happens next is somehow, and I don’t know how, but ids software ends up being the poster child for Don’t Copy That.
Jeff:
Why is it involved in this?
Casey:
They show a bunch of people, including Todd Hollenshead the president, sitting around working on Doom 3.
Jeff:
Right, so there’s this part where the song changes from Don’t Copy That to what turns into a. . .
Casey:
To being procreative. Yeah. Procreative.
Jeff:
. . ..like a Devry commercial.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Where they show people in front of monitors. . .
Casey:
Yes, right, an ITT Technical Institute.
Jeff:
Right, like monitors up, like people pointing to the monitor like Todd Hollingworth is pointing to the monitor and. . .
Casey:
Ted.
Jeff:
Oh, Ted, okay. Their pointing to something and then they’re both shaking like, like nobody ever does that.
Casey:
But they everyone does it when the film crew goes act like you’re working.
Jeff:
Yeah, yeah, and you start pointing at shit and leaving smudges on the monitor, which is my pet peeve, by the way. Never touch my fucking monitor.
Casey:
Okay, good. No, good. No good smudged on the monitor.
Jeff:
Right, pointing at things by touching my monitor. At least nowadays when people, all the old days when people would touch my CRT, nothing would happen and then I would just sitting there steaming, waiting for them to leave and wash my. . .Now with an LCD, when they touch it, it goes, brrrrlp, all the colors go weird and you’re like, ‘See that? You’re fucking up the monitor.’
Casey:
That is proof. You’ve got proof now.
Jeff:
It’s proof. Yeah.
Casey:
That you fucked it up.
Jeff:
Anyway, so yeah, it becomes this thing of make your own stuff, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, wait, when did. . .
Casey:
They’re trying all the different angles, like we threatened you with your friends not thinking its cool like peer pressure, we threatened you with your mom getting arrested by the swat team, we threatened you with Klingons. . .who doesn’t listen to Klingons?
Jeff:
Right, exactly. They’re terrifying.
Casey:
And then if none of that worked, we’ll try to convince you to become part of our shitastic group of people making crappy games that no one wants to play that we can argue that you copied and stole money from us.
Jeff:
Right, well, if they can get. . .
Casey:
Which by the way is our industry.
Jeff:
. . .if they can get you, if they can suck you into that shit, then like they’re like well once he’s in he’ll understand.
Casey:
That’s right.
Jeff:
It’s really like nobody in the video game industry that’s part of the industry, not a single human being in that industry has ever copied software.
Casey:
Every single one.
Jeff:
You know what?
Casey:
Every single one.
Jeff:
Let me just break this to the rest of the world, every game studio in the world has an illegal copy of 3D studio. I’m sorry.
Casey:
Probably, yes.
Jeff:
No, not probably. They do.
Casey:
No, I’m saying probably because it might not be 3D studio. It could be. . .
Jeff:
Oh, it could be Photoshop.
Casey:
Photoshop, Illustrator, every fucking one.
Jeff:
One. I’m sorry, every one. And a lot of it is like they just didn’t know they got too many employees too quickly and like they’re missing one or whatever and they thought they had one and they didn’t. . .
Casey:
It may not be intentionally that. Most of the time it is, they’re just like. . .
Jeff:
A lot of time it’s intentional.
Casey:
It’s like I want to take one home with me to work at home or whatever.
Jeff:
Look, we’ve bought $300,000 worth of this software, I can take one home so I can not be here 18 hours a day because that’s what it takes to crud. Like, there’s that shit happening but like I guarantee you every one. So somehow they think that if they are in our industry, you know. . .
Casey:
We’re just stealing from each other. It’s fine. You know what? You know what? You pirate Doom 3, we pirate Mya, everyone wins.
Jeff:
Maybe that’s what they’re like. At least if you’re in the industry we are stealing from each other.
Casey:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Jeff:
So there’s this thing of like okay whatever. Anyway, he’s making some car or something with the wheels extruded.
Casey:
Yeah, he’s got some fucked up piece of shit car, you know. It’s some model, yeah.
Jeff:
And then all of a sudden it looks like they had this video of the doors in Doom, opening.
Casey:
Yeah, like the really old looking. It didn’t even look like Doom 3, it looked an old, you know. . .
Jeff:
Well, first off, like there’s a Doom creature. . .
Casey:
Yeah, all of the CG looks really old.
Jeff:
Well the Doom creature pops up from behind the desk that looks like it’s almost like what’s her name, that the desk, Linda?
Casey:
I don’t know.
Jeff:
Oh.
Casey:
Oh, the secretary at id?
Jeff:
Mrs. Id, like the sweet grandma. . .
Casey:
Oh, I know who you’re talking about. Yeah, I know.
Jeff:
I mean Brian Hook and Abe Rush work there so I wish I could remember. Anyways, she’s this sweet lady, always takes care of everybody there. She’s kind of like the mom. Instead of her they have this, I don’t know if it’s a puppet or if it’s CG that they’ve superimposed, but this crazy Doom creature goes aarr, and then. . .
Casey:
The video is really low res so it’s hard to tell what’s what in there but it’s a rendering I think.
Jeff:
The doors open and we have the Klingon, the young girl that was. . .
Casey:
The minor, the minor whose mom was going to get arrested.
Jeff:
And she’s, mom’s in jail. . ..
Casey:
Presumably.
Jeff:
. . .so that means like, you know, her custody was transferred to the Klingons.
Casey:
Probably. And they’re going, who taught her how to dance.
Jeff:
Right, well they taught her how to dance and also how to like hunt with her batlif to kill her dinner every night. So it’s a horrible upbringing for a human.
Casey:
Do I want to even ask what a batlif is?
Jeff:
It’s those funny swords.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Okay. And then so you’ve got, I don’t even know if I’m saying that right, because I say everything wrong, but that’s, you’ll get the just.
Casey:
Fair enough.
Jeff:
Klingon minor, right.
Casey:
And data protector.
Jeff:
MC Data Protector and then another Klingon. So it’s like, it’s kind of a Klingon sandwich. And the wrapper and the copier are the meat. They all dance together. Now, what become clear immediately. . .
Casey:
And it, this might, wait a minute though, this might be for all we know, culturally speaking, in Klingon this may be really good dancing.
Jeff:
Okay, yes.
Casey:
In our culture it’s terrible. It is the worst dance ever.
Jeff:
It was clear to me, okay. . .
Casey:
I wouldn’t even qualify it as dancing if it weren’t in a music video, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I would not have known it was dancing, I would have thought it was uncomfortable shifting.
Jeff:
Well, a couple of things. The people that were playing the Klingons were clearly whitey birds because this was white guy dancing. Clearly, there was no question. So they’re doing this. . .
Casey:
Well you know you can’t make that distinction. You can’t this distinction because the DP guy, that’s the racial myth that white people can’t dance and black people can. It was shattered by this lineup.
Jeff:
With this video. Oh my God. You’re right.
Casey:
Because you’ve got all four people completely unable to dance and each one of them is a different race it looked like.
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
So we’re just like across the board, you can find a shitty dancer in any culture.
Jeff:
In any culture, if you have a bad dancer, send us your resume for Don’t Copy the Floppy 3 because we need it.
Casey:
That’s right.
Jeff:
So the Klingons dance and then you’re like what the fuck? They dance and then it hard cuts, the icing on the shit cake. . .
Casey:
I know what you’re going to say now, yep.
Jeff:
. . .cuts to this man who is in prison.
Casey:
Well, man would require a much lower voice.
Jeff:
Okay, well, you know, I’m not going to be too hard on him. First off, he sounds, he has the highest pitch voice I’ve ever heard.
Casey:
He has the highest pitch voice I’ve ever heard.
Jeff:
With a guy that has a goatee.
Casey:
That’s right. It is the highest voice I’ve ever heard from a goatee.
Jeff:
Yes. Now, I feel like the only thing I’ll say about that is I could make a lot of fun of the guy, the pre-arrest material, all of this, he’s not like, he looks a little sketchy. The fact that this is a real guy. . .
Casey:
Yeah, who is really in prison for this. Felony.
Jeff:
Really in prison for copying discs, and you march him out like some kind of puppet in the hopes, what he’s hoping, what he’s sitting here, the reason he agreed to do this fucking dog and pony show that is like. . .
Casey:
Complete bullshit.
Jeff:
Not even complete bullshit. Degrading and awful. Is that he’s hoping is this cuts a fucking month off of his sentence. That’s all he fucking cares about. He would blow the warden if it took two months off. He’d blow all of you. And he’s doing this video because he thinks he’s going to get off. That’s fucking horrific. That’s not something that makes me go. . .
Casey:
Well, just to be clear, it’s not horrific for him, it’s horrific that they made him do that.
Jeff:
It is! It is the worst thing ever. Like, it’s like pulling prisoners out of prison and making them dance for us. It’s running man. It’s like this kind of bullshit that is not entertainment, it’s not persuasive, it’s horrific. I don’t even think they know.
Casey:
No, they don’t know.
Jeff:
Because there’s actually, there is a press release about this and this fucking cunt, this guy who wouldn’t be worth. . ..
Casey:
You’re talking about the dude with the weird name?
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Yeah, okay, you’re talking about Keith Kupfershmid [SP?].
Jeff:
Comes out and he talks about his video not realizing a) that like the lameness is there, right?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And the lameness, you know what? They’re old white guys. It’s going to be lame. But the fact that they mixed in this lameness, and hidden in this lame goofiness with these images that should be horrific to anybody, like Amnesty International should look at this video and go, ‘You know what? We need, this is fucking ridiculous.’
Casey:
It’s undignified. It’s degrading to a human being.
Jeff:
Yes, and what’s being insinuated, like, everything about it. Like if you showed war lords made videos in Africa saying that you had better join us or we’re going to take your mother and put her in prison.
Casey:
Yeah, they’ve got a machete or whatever.
Jeff:
This would be all over Amnesty International. Because this is a fucking CD or video game and like in software, what the fuck are you doing being anything related to this?
Casey:
Well, that’s why I said that was the saddest part. It was like I don’t want to see people I know up there as part of this.
Jeff:
Yeah, people I think are awesome, like mixed in with this thing it’s like what the fuck is wrong with you? Who knows, maybe they never saw the script and they didn’t know about the kid’s mom getting arrested in curlers and fucked by the guard while the other guy who has been fucked so much his voice has gone up three octaves. . .
Casey:
Well meanwhile, let’s just take a moment though to bring it kind of back around, just talking about sort of the meta-analysis now that Jeff has literally lost several years of his life.
Jeff:
My voice is going. It just makes me so angry.
Casey:
For several years I was like I’m the one who’s normally angry and you are just out of control on this one. For good reason, I mean this really is pretty terrible but that’s beside the point. The thing is they did the same thing, it looks a lot worse in this particular video, which is that if you’re trying to convince me that a lot of harm is being done to your industry, don’t show a bunch of people in a high priced office building with more monitors than God, sitting around jerking off all day. It’s ridiculous. If you think about what we do for a living, I mean I’ve got to be honest with you, it’s really fucking cushy.
Jeff:
Right, yep.
Casey:
There’s just no question about that.
Jeff:
There’s a. . .
Casey:
I do not accept arguments that we are being harmed dramatically by piracy because. . .
Jeff:
When the software had 50 Ferrari’s, right?
Casey:
I mean come on people. Like, I want to see these people making $40,000 a year across the board before you start telling me that things are getting hard.
Jeff:
Right, we. . .
Casey:
They ain’t fucking hard.
Jeff:
We don’t start with the fact of like you know, if you want to show us the craziness and how awful this is, you don’t start with our superstar developer in software who’s not hurting for money and never has and never probably will. Like you might pick somebody else, even then it’s potential theft. Like, so let’s. . .
Casey:
We can flip to another YouTube video of them driving around in like a custom Hummer shooting like paint balls at people and shit, and you’re like these people don’t need your money. That’s the actual message. They don’t need any more of your money. Like I’m sorry but that’s just the fucking truth. If you want to convince me that this crime is hurting somebody, show me a software developer who is out of work. There actually are.
Jeff:
Yeah, there’s plenty, right.
Casey:
Unfortunately none of them are in the game industry probably, they’re all fucking .com people or whatever and frankly, not a problem for me but whatever.
Jeff:
There are people in the game industry getting laid off and all of that and that’s all true. I guarantee none of those people are being laid off because of piracy. That’s not the reason they’re getting laid off, okay. The economy sucks and people are out of work and it’s horrible. Piracy. . .
Casey:
Is not the problem.
Jeff:
. . .is so the miniscule decimal point over 500 digits over. It’s not the issue, right? Like nobody is being hurt by this in any real way. And I’m not even arguing about the craziness like the counterarguments of like you know what that turns into real sales when people try it. Fuck all that. I’m okay with the fact if you steal shit you’re a pirate and you did steal. Okay, fine. I’m saying that that crime is not that big a fucking deal. It’s not even shoplifting. . .
Casey:
It should not be a felony.
Jeff:
It doesn’t even register on that. It’s stealing bits, a potential stealing of bits that like people sometimes collect shit. Like 90% of the people that are copying AutoCad or 3D Studio or some other expensive piece of software. . .
Casey:
Will never make any money with it.
Jeff:
. . .turn it on. They’re never going to figure it out. It’s all bullshit. We don’t need to be worrying about it. This is not our problem. This is not an issue that we need to spend any time on and the fact that id software’s wasting any energy on this and letting people use their offices, let the fucking Klingons were down from Carmack dancing. Like fuck.
Casey:
Well part of the problem there too is it is a prioritization issue. I don’t want, even though it’s my industry, I don’t want society spending a lot of its resources trying to figure out how to maximize the profits of the game industry. It seems like we’re making enough money as it is. Let’s work on something else, if we’re all out of jobs in ten years, maybe then we come around and go look at was it a problem. Probably wasn’t a problem because hey, we’d probably all become more useful than making video games for a living. Sorry about that but at the end of the day right now, things are okay and there’s a lot worse problems to solve.
Jeff:
Of the thousand things that need to be fixed in a video game, the lowest one, the simplest one thing that we can’t ever do, we’ll fix that and then maybe like hot projection comes in there, but like. . .
Casey:
Like my Xbox runs for more than six months before dying. Like we’ll get that under control and then start thinking about the piracy.
Jeff:
Right, ugh. Okay, so let’s talk about, so we’re also going to talk about. . .
Casey:
There’s way too much to talk about here.
Jeff:
. . .copyright itself.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Okay, so you want to talk about like. . .
Casey:
Should we do a double? We’ve probably need. . .
Jeff:
Let’s just keep going.
Casey:
I don’t know that we can. I think we’re already like an hour or something probably.
Jeff:
No, we’re all right. Yeah, we’re all right.
Casey:
But you’re sure you don’t want to break and then do a second. . .
Jeff:
Okay, all right, we’ll break right now. We’ll be back in one second.
Casey:
We’re going to do a double episode because Jeff is on a roll.
Jeff:
I’m on a roll. I’m angry.
Casey:
And he’s angry.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
So what we need you to do is go ahead and email us at podcast@jeffandcaseyshow.com or you can hook up with us on Twitter at twitter.com/jeffandcasey or Facebook at facebook.com/jeffandcaseyshow. We’d love to hear from you, especially if you’re somebody if for some fucking reason thinks that all this bullshit is actually useful.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Because we will shout your ass down.
Jeff:
Right, right. You give us your address and we’ll take care of you. God damn it.
Casey:
We will tweet the shit out of you.
Jeff:
Yes, all right.
Casey:
All right.
Jeff:
Okay, see you in five minutes.
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casey muratori
the jeff and casey show - season 2 - episode 17
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