Blog
Bio
The Technician
No Imperfections Noted
The Jeff and Casey Show
Jeff and Casey Time
Casey Muratori
Seattle, WA
The Freedomcast
"It's gonna be like Snuffleupagus every day!"
Original air date: June 1st, 2008
Topics. Fen/phen. Arachnia. Freedomcast. It Came from the Desert. Elliptical trainer. Bad movie vs. bad movie. Thirtysomething fatness. Bad Ubuntu rand. Fermat’s last theorem patch. Extenz.
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Transcript
Casey:
Why are you… Okay. You went over to get emergency Chapstick? You can’t podcast without a Chapstick?
Jeff:
I can’t have chappy lips. I hate chappy lips. I have Chapstick everywhere.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
I keep buying more because I never have it when I need it. And so I now I have, like…. Hey… Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Jeff & Casey Show.
Casey:
Why is it “welcome back to the Jeff & Casey Show”?
Jeff:
What do I usually say?
Casey:
You say “welcome”.
Jeff:
Welcome.
Casey:
That implies that they went away…
Jeff:
Well…
Casey:
In some way that they haven’t been going way…
Jeff:
Well, no, they missed us for a week.
Casey:
Oh, it’s like, “Welcome back into our loving arms”?
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
The loving… We are going to…
Jeff:
The loving embrace…
Casey:
Embrace your ears with our loving arms?
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So…
Casey:
I’m fine with that.
Jeff:
It’s Saturday. It’s May 24th but this will be in the future.
Casey:
Is it May 24th?
Jeff:
We’re catching up. We’re trying to get a little bit more proactive in our…
Casey:
Are you sure that’s the date? Yes, it is the date.
Jeff:
It is the date.
Casey:
Okay. Alright. Fine.
Jeff:
It’s about 5 o’clock in Seattle, Washington. In America. United States. We’re broadcasting live from podcast studios. What else?
Casey:
I’m stunned right now. What’s going on?
Jeff:
I don’t know.
Casey:
What’s happening?
Jeff:
I’m giving you some action. It’s hot.
Casey:
Are you trying to make sure that everyone knows that this is a patriotic podcast?
Jeff:
Yeah. Patriot.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
That’s right.
Casey:
Have you had some trouble with the FBI lately or something?
Jeff:
No, in fact I think… Like, you probably attract more attention to yourself if you… They want cheap. They don’t want [ either way ].
Casey:
We could rename… We could call this the Freedom-cast.
Jeff:
I’m wearing my flag pin, though.
Casey:
You’re flag pin… Freedom-cast. It could totally be the Freedom-cast.
Jeff:
Okay. This is the Freedom-cast. I’m looking at our list of things we’re talking about. There’s nothing freedom here at all.
Casey:
Well, I can tell you one thing right now which is actually… Well, first of all, I should mention that although you attempted to prevent me from exercising by putting the elliptical trainer downstairs such that it can’t really be used without you fearing for your life because there’s, like… Like, above me, there were literally all these nails sticking down that were this far away from where my head goes when you go up and down…
Jeff:
Whoa, really?
Casey:
So I was like, I’m fucked.
Jeff:
That machine that Alicia got? That one?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I was like, “Fuck that. I need to exercise. I am going to die of heart disease or something…
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
This is a problem for me because…
Jeff:
Because you don’t work out like I do.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Because I’ve been working out…
Casey:
Exactly…
Jeff:
Tsss… Tsss…
Casey:
Yes, you’re hard as a rock.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
The problem for me is that…
Jeff:
I’m hard right now.
Casey:
Oh, God. The problem for me is that I don’t get fat if I don’t exercise. Like, I don’t get really fat so there’s not that much incentive for me to, like, be super in shape.
Jeff:
Well…
Casey:
So it’s a problem because I will die of a heart attack from never moving. Do you see what I’m saying?
Jeff:
I think you’re at the point…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
At which… Now, I’m a very skinny person.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And when I turned about 30-31…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
My lack of exercise almost instantaneously caught up with me.
Casey:
Okay. So maybe I will have the incentive soon.
Jeff:
You will have a 6-month period where you’re like, “What the fuck happened?” ‘Cos I went from… I’m usually, like, 170. I went all the way to 205 in, like, 5 months. And it was when we moved here to Seattle from Utah…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So I don’t know if it had something to do with it.
Casey:
Maybe.
Jeff:
I don’t know what.
Casey:
The weather or the food…
Jeff:
I have no idea. Between that…
Casey:
Could be…
Jeff:
And all of a sudden, I had massive allergies which I never had allergies in my life.
Casey:
Oh, yeah, well, that makes sense, right? ‘Cos in Utah, it’d probably be barren, huh?
Jeff:
Well, it’s dry…
Casey:
Dry.
Jeff:
They have lots of pollen and stuff there. I guess I was just…
Casey:
Immune to that all?
Jeff:
You grow up somewhere and you just don’t have it.
Casey:
No, ‘cos I grew up in Massachusetts and I had wicked allergies to, like, ragweed there and stuff.
Jeff:
Well, you’ve heard that thing where you’re supposed to eat some local foods…
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
Yeah. So you’re supposed to eat…
Casey:
No, I haven’t heard this.
Jeff:
Yeah, so there’s a thing where they encourage people to eat, like, honey made locally…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Not in other states because if you eat it locally, you get some immunization…
Casey:
It’s like inoculation to the…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Really?
Jeff:
Local pollens… I don’t know if it’s a wives’ tale or something but people tell me that.
Casey:
Yeah, it probably is.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Well, the way your immune system works is actually pretty interesting because, you know, allergies are an autoimmune reaction. So it’s basically you’re body is attacking things it doesn’t need to attack.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So you end up getting immunoresponses… I shouldn’t say attacking. You’re getting immunoresponses of various kinds to a pathogen which is not actually dangerous to you, right?
Jeff:
Right. I see.
Casey:
It’s like, something is happening.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
So I shouldn’t have said autoimmune…
Jeff:
Well, it’s also an overreaction…
Casey:
Because it’s not autoimmune.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You’re still reacting to a foreign body. It’s just not one that you needed to react to. Autoimmune’s like Grave’s Disease or something where it attacks your cells. That’s not what I meant. Sorry. But point being… Sorry, go ahead.
Jeff:
Well, it’s also… It can also trigger a histamine attack which your body also reacts to, as well.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So you get, like, your body releasing histamine and attacking that, too. So it’s like this huge circular loop kind of almost.
Casey:
Your body attacks histamines?
Jeff:
Well, that’s part of the reaction.
Casey:
Histamines are just part of the immunoresponse…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
In that sense, right?
Jeff:
But when it goes nuts, that’s one of the things that it overreacts to. And then, produces more and then, like, you’re fucked.
Casey:
Well, what I was gonna say is the immune system works by rand. That’s how it works.
Jeff:
A good rand or a bad rand?
Casey:
No, it’s like…
Jeff:
Are we talking Ubuntu Rand or, like…
Casey:
Well, that’s a good question.
Jeff:
Twister rand.
Casey:
I don’t know enough about it, I guess. It is definitely on my list of things to read about, like, specifically mechanical path, you know… To actually read the specific stuff about it but…
Jeff:
Did you see the dude that, like, you know, there’s been that stink lately where the rand in Ubuntu was broken.
Casey:
Most rands are.
Jeff:
Yeah, well, this is the system one.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And in… Like, unlike a lot of PC applications for the [ compile to C ] run time in.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Most… You usually don’t do that in Linux.
Casey:
They usually don’t do that in PC anymore, either. So why get all these fucking manifest bugs…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And you can’t…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So just using the DLL of [ MSDC ], but yeah…
Jeff:
I think most sophis--… But yeah, it’s more in Linux. So like, you have these things where you’re like because it’s a bad rand, the hashes were generated poorly and if you generated keys while you’re on Ubuntu… Ubuntu. I love saying Ubuntu.
Casey:
Wait, people were using the 32-bit rand in the CRT to generate CryptoKeys?
Jeff:
It’s the way you start the hash. And if you know how you start the hash, then you’re fucked, right? And. . .
Casey:
Microsoft had the same problem, by the way.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
They had the exact same problem.
Jeff:
Well, most of them… Like TrueCrypt has the thing where just move your mouse for 30 seconds…
Casey:
Right, right…
Jeff:
To, like… Yeah, queue it up. Anyway, the funny thing was that somebody… And this was kind of an interesting way to show bad rand is he just took rand and plotted it out on a 2D display.
Casey:
I’ve done that exact same thing.
Jeff:
And it’s like a perfect cr--…
Casey:
Yep.
Jeff:
I mean, it was… In between, there were columns.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You could see it’s very specific columns.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And within the columns, it was random. But like, there were these huge big lines and little…
Casey:
No, I’ve done that exact same experiment. It’s terrible.
Jeff:
[inaudible 7:05] kinds of curves that happen.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You’re like, “Oh, you’re fucked.”
Casey:
Well, most rands in a C runtime library or a linear congruential generator which is crap…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I mean, they just don’t work for… ‘Cos usually, what you need them for is you need to be able to guarantee a lot of entropy in the bottom bits, right? Because usually, what people are doing is they’ll rand and then mod or mask. . .
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
The rand to get it into a range that they can use. And typically, what they’ll do is they’ll do that twice, right? Like, I need a vector. I need a random vector. So I’m gonna do it, right, exactly like that 2D plot. I’m gonna call it, like, 2 or 3 times. And those had better not be correlated together ‘cos if they are, then all of my vectors are gonna come out with certain properties…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Even if looking at the rand sequence over a larger period of time would satisfy, like, a chi-square or something else that you’d use to verify the entropy, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
How the fuck did we get here from me exercising? Jesus Christ?
Jeff:
What did it start at?
Casey:
It’s the immune system got us there and…
Jeff:
Yeah, okay.
Casey:
Anyway…
Jeff:
So, you went out and… What did you do for your exercise, then? You DDR-ed?
Casey:
No, my point is I decided that I wasn’t gonna let you make me die of a heart attack.
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
So I moved the elliptical trainer back upstairs…
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
Into the dining room for now.
Jeff:
How the hell did you get it up the stairs?
Casey:
Yeah. Because I’m fucking awesome is how I did it.
Jeff:
Apparently. Did you put some…
Casey:
Oh, I don’t know. Just a miracle [ of my engineering ]. When you go to the pyramids, they say the same thing. They’re like, “We don’t know how they did it with the tools they had,” and the same thing is true with me moving the elliptical trainer but I did it.
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
And this morning…
Jeff:
Did you hire some slaves is what you’re saying?
Casey:
No. No, I did not.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
This morning, I was elliptically training… Which, by the way, I don’t…
Jeff:
Don’t use it as a verb. Just say you were exercising. Don’t say “I was elliptically training”.
Casey:
I don’t think it’s an elliptical trainer because I don’t think your feet move in an elliptical path. I feel like, if anything, it would be fairly oblate. Like, it would be more like a teardrop.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I feel like. But anyway, that’s a separate discussion about whether or not it’s actual an elliptical trainer.
Jeff:
So you couldn’t feed these curves into your elliptical cartography, either?
Casey:
No, I don’t know what…
Jeff:
This is how we got into rand.
Casey:
I do not know what elliptical curves for elliptical… My cartography is not good enough to even know if that even means what you just said it means, so…
Jeff:
My belief on the elliptical curve thing is…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like, “Oh, they’re way stronger for the amount of effort you put into them.”
Casey:
Okay. But I don’t know what that even… Alright.
Jeff:
The point is, they take less CPU.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But my only thing was, when I read about it was, like, maybe they seem like they’re equivalently strengthed because no one understands how they work. They’re one of those things where you feel like…
Casey:
Security through obscurity. Not in the sense of, “We’re not gonna tell you what [inaudible 9:50]” but nobody knows what the algorithm is…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So it’s, like, you can’t find out because we don’t know.
Jeff:
Right. I feel like that’s one that’s gonna [inaudible 9:56] Oh, damn it.
Casey:
Well, Fermat’s Last Theorem was actually a… Wasn’t that a lynchpin there, the elliptical curve thing? I remember them talking about that a little bit. The fact that they proved that eventually… There was some elliptical curve shit that was done there… No, it’s… Yeah, no, it’s the triangle… The triangle thing…
Jeff:
Well…
Casey:
Do you remember this? You know what I’m talking about?
Jeff:
I know what you’re talking about but I don’t remember if it was related to that because it’s…
Casey:
I thought it was but… I don’t know…
Jeff:
Fermat’s the an + bn = cn thing and it’s not true over cubes or something right?
Casey:
It’s not equal. It’s less than or something… Or… It’s equal?
Jeff:
I thought it was equal because isn’t, like, 3 + 4…
Casey:
Oh, yeah, it’s can you find…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
It’s can you find a number that it would do, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Not [inaudible 10:38]
Jeff:
Because 32 + 42 = 52 kind of thing?
Casey:
Right, right. I see what you’re saying.
Jeff:
I don’t know.
Casey:
I don’t know. That is, like… That is the area of math in which I am the very worst. Like, I just never have had to deal with the Number Theory in any way…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So, I don’t even know what the theorems are…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Let alone how they work. I mean, Fermat’s Last Theorem, I had no fucking clue what it was.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
He wrote some shit in a margin. That’s where I’m at with that.
Jeff:
Right. Yeah.
Casey:
Sean will link to a bunch of Fermat’s Last Theorem information now and I will go and read it and then I will know.
Jeff:
Did you ever see the special on… What was his name? Andrew Wiles?
Casey:
Andrew Wiles?
Jeff:
Yeah, the dude that…
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
He had it figured out…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
He did the thing…
Casey:
There was a bug?
Jeff:
There was a bug.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And it almost broke him, like…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
He was fucked…
Casey:
The poor guy.
Jeff:
And then he fixed it or something and then he came back and fixed it and it was the happiest day of his life…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But in between…
Casey:
Agonizing?
Jeff:
I’m like, wow, I am less invested in that…
Casey:
I know.
Jeff:
Like, I care about things like that…
Casey:
I know.
Jeff:
But like, boy, if I was broken up on my own bugs, he could not be a computer programmer.
Casey:
No. Yeah, that wouldn’t fly.
Jeff:
Because can you imagine, like…
Casey:
That wouldn’t fly.
Jeff:
You know, “Oh, hey, there’s this bug in your sound decompresser,” and he’d be like, “Oh, man.”
Casey:
Well…
Jeff:
“I can’t come in to work to--… I’ve been working for 24 hours and you find a bug.” It’s like, “You know what? No. this is not how we solve problems in modern games. We just crash and then patch it later. Cheer up, Andy, we’re gonna take care of you here.”
Casey:
Which is just what he did, right? It’s like, dude…
Jeff:
But he was like…
Casey:
“You patched your proof.”
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
We all do it. Everyone’s got an issue now and again, right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
At least it wasn’t like you shipped…
Jeff:
We have zero day patches.
Casey:
Yeah, exactly.
Jeff:
It’s like, we haven’t released the game yet but we pre-put a patch…
Casey:
Prop the patch, yeah…
Jeff:
So that when it releases…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
It can be patched.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
“That’s how bad we are, Andy. It’s alright. Chill out.”
Casey:
You know, at least he didn’t ship the [ proof of ] Fermat’s Last Theorem, like, without multiplayer…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
But the back of the proof said that it had multiplayer, right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And then he had to ship a patch, like, 3 weeks later that adds it in, right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
He ships, like… It would be like shipping his [ proof of ] Fermat’s Last Theorem where he just did did an = bn, like, that’s it, right? And it was like, “We’re gonna add the C in there at some point.”
Jeff:
Yeah, episodic proofs?
Casey:
“It’s coming.” Right. Yeah. We patched it.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So it is a [ proof of ] Fermat’s Last Theorem, there’s just some parts that are left out.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
This proof is rated M for mature. And then accidentally, we left in the [ hot coffee ]…
Casey:
Anyway, back to my elliptical training that I was doing…
Jeff:
Back to your boring exercise…
Casey:
So point being, I was exercising this morning.
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
And I was listening to a lecture by Martin Luther King…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
On the Vietnam War.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
So I felt like that would be [inaudible 13:17] to a Freedom-cast.
Jeff:
Oh, okay. I see. That’s…
Casey:
Do you see what I’m saying? That’s where I was going with that. And you managed to take what would have been 5 seconds of me saying that and stretch it out…
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
Into what the MegaTimer is coming up on 15 minutes.
Jeff:
Yep, we’re hating it. We’re hating it. Does the Freedom-cast count if I drove and broke the law in the morning, driving around like a crazy man?
Casey:
Oh, did you go and… Were you out in the ASS-ton Martin today?
Jeff:
I went out early enough that I thought I wouldn’t attract the law…
Casey:
You put the “ass” back in the Aston Martin.
Jeff:
I was driving like a maniac so that…
Casey:
Can the law even catch you in the cars you drive? They just have to set up a roadblock, basically, is that what [ goes down here ]?
Jeff:
I’d end up on one of those helicopter chases… And they’re like… Yeah. Those are the best.
Casey:
Like OJ Simpson?
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Well, no, they have TV shows late at night…
Casey:
Although, he was in some fucking slow-ass SUV…
Jeff:
That are just like, they’re all…
Casey:
Oh, the best of…
Jeff:
Oh, yeah.
Casey:
The Best of Chases?
Jeff:
They’re awesome. There’s…
Casey:
I didn’t know that.
Jeff:
I was gonna send you this one of a dude that steals a bait car. You know what bait cars are?
Casey:
Uh…
Jeff:
They put, like, kinda nice cars in a bad part of time and then they let them steal them…
Casey:
Oh…
Jeff:
And they can turn them off remotely. So you’re just driving along…
Casey:
But wait, how was he escaping in a car that they can turn off?
Jeff:
Because he stole a bait car. That’s… They put these cars that they can…
Casey:
Well, no. I mean, how come they didn’t just turn it off and then the chase is over?
Jeff:
No, they did. He jumps out of the car. Runs away. He runs into a golf course…
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
Jumps in a golf cart and the helicopter is watching him drive…
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
In a golf cart.
Casey:
No way.
Jeff:
And it’s… He’s… And I’m pretty sure this is… Where was this?
Casey:
This is out of control, dude.
Jeff:
Anyway…
Casey:
Out of control.
Jeff:
They show him driving around and the guy in the helicopter is laughing because he’s going really slow.
Casey:
Yeah, no shit.
Jeff:
And all of a sudden, another golf cart comes up behind him and they’re following him. And they chase through this long place. He doesn’t know where he’s going ‘cos golf courses are confusing. You know, if you’re playing a golf…
Casey:
Yeah. Well, they go back…
Jeff:
’Cos they turn in on…
Casey:
They go backwards and forwards…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
’Cos they’re trying to work all the holes into a small space, you know…
Jeff:
There’s this tight turn where, like, he’s basically…
Casey:
Did he run into a sand trap or something?
Jeff:
No, he’s basically passing the guys following him within, like, 50 feet. I’m like, “Why don’t they jump out and tackle him?” Anyway, they chase him. He gets caught in this… The golf course kind of goes underneath an overpass thing…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And then, in the tunnel, there’s action that the helicopter can’t catch.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And all of a sudden, he runs out of the tunnel and…
Casey:
With no golf cart?
Jeff:
Right. With no golf cart. And he’s running away. And finally, he gives up not because he was cornered or anything, just ‘cos he’s so tired. He was just… You could see him in the thing just going… So he needed elliptical training is what I’m…
Casey:
Now, I’m just gonna…
Jeff:
I’m gonna…
Casey:
I’m gonna predict something…
Jeff:
We got a link to that with the YouTube…
Casey:
Okay, you’ll find it?
Jeff:
Yeah. It’s awesome. It’s, like, 10 minutes long.
Casey:
I’m gonna predict something right here. ‘Cos I didn’t know this existed, right? I only knew about OJ. I’m [inaudible 16:06] right now which is that, if there isn’t already, eventually, there will be a Japanese TV series that is based on this concept only intentional. Like, you have to outrun the cops… Like, what they think of as an American cop or something chase through some course…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
That they have designed, right…
Jeff:
So it’s like Outdoor American Gladiator?
Casey:
For maximum amusement.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Yeah. Well, they already have this, right? But you’re not being chased.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Right? You go up… It’s like the ninja challenge thing, you know? They do all these crazy stunts and stuff. So I’m just thinking, like, this is gonna be perfect, if they could do this sort of pursuit… A pursuit version of that…
Jeff:
I would be good at that. I want to be on that show.
Casey:
Why would you be good at it?
Jeff:
Because I like running away and jumping over things.
Casey:
“I like running away.”
Jeff:
I do.
Casey:
Thank you, Corky.
Jeff:
I would do it. I would do it.
Casey:
“I like running away. Mom says I’m good at running away.”
Jeff:
Apples.
Casey:
Yeah. Oh, Christ. Alright, well, good…
Jeff:
Have we done a single topic on our to-do list?
Casey:
No. What did you just say? You said late night… You were talking about… This was on late night TV? You were watching late night TV…
Jeff:
Oh, hey, that’s almost… Holy shit, that’s almost a second, yes…
Casey:
With a person running away from the cops?
Jeff:
Yeah, I was.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It was, in fact, the… What do they call those? I can’t remember the name of the show but it was like…
Casey:
“Most Excellent Cop Chases” or something?
Jeff:
Yeah, well they… It is car chases or whatever ‘cos they have lots of them. And they’re usually bait car ones so they’re driving like crazy. They press a button and it’s like…
Casey:
That’s so awesome.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
That’s so awesome except if they had a fucking clue, they would realize that nobody gives a shit about catching the car thieves anymore. It’s about producing the show…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
So that button should make the car…
Jeff:
Go faster.
Casey:
Go faster, yeah. It should be like a remote nitrous…
Jeff:
Turbo.
Casey:
Right?
Jeff:
Awesome. And the dude driving the car is like, “What the fuck?”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Yeah. That would be…
Casey:
It’s like “Speed” but the cops are the bad guys. Right?
Jeff:
That is awesome.
Casey:
They’re like… The little speaker comes on inside his car and it’s like, “If you go under 50 miles an hour, the car is going to explode.
Jeff:
That’s awesome. That’s the only reason I like the original “Need for Speed” was driving away from the little policeman.
Casey:
The original “Need for Speed”? I don’t think I ever played that.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It was a PC game, right, at the time?
Jeff:
Yeah. At the time. It may have been on other… I played it on PC but…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Okay. So anyway, late night TV. There are… Every commercial, it’s either “Girls Gone Wild”… They’re on all the time.
Casey:
Yeah. The Eliot Spitzer edition?
Jeff:
Yeah, they just go nuts.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Apparently, there’s girls going wild all over the place. And they’re just there documenting.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
They’re basically like Michael Moore, documenting America today.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
American free--… Yeah…
Casey:
It’s just like someone following me around for a weekend.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You know?
Jeff:
Totally…
Casey:
It’s fine. I don’t mind. It’s cool.
Jeff:
Right. Except for the girls.
Casey:
And the wildness?
Jeff:
And the wildness. Other than the no girls and no wildness, it’s exactly a weekend with Casey and Jeff.
Casey:
I guess mine is more like “Girls Gone Reserved”, let’s say.
Jeff:
“Girls Gone Missing”. Where the fuck did all the girls go?
Casey:
What? Ugh, that is so cruel.
Jeff:
I…
Casey:
And untrue.
Jeff:
Well, we’re… I’m just saying. Saturday, doing a podcast. What’s going on, dude? No girls.
Casey:
I’m doing this for you, man.
Jeff:
Alright. Anyway, that’s not what I want to talk about.
Casey:
You want me to bring the ladies by next time?
Jeff:
The shorties? Anyway…
Casey:
You never… I try… I am always… For the record, I am always trying to bring you to parties with women…
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
You always say no.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
You always turn me down.
Jeff:
I don’t like a party.
Casey:
So the concept that you think it would be hard to go out…
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
Is… Going out with the women is not the hard part. Going out with you is the hard part.
Jeff:
No, no. What I’m…
Casey:
I can’t ever get you to go out.
Jeff:
Yeah, that’s not gonna happen because…
Casey:
We can go any time you want to.
Jeff:
No, that’s not the point.
Casey:
There’s no Jeff there. There’s never a Jeff there.
Jeff:
No, that’s not the point.
Casey:
I’m there. They’re there. Where’s the Jeff? Where’s the Jeff?
Jeff:
You’re killing me.
Casey:
The Jeff is just not there, it’s that fucking simple.
Jeff:
The Jeff is not among the humans is what I like to say, yes.
Casey:
Well, fine. But I’m pointing out the fact that it’s the “Jeff Gone Wild”. That’s… Okay…
Jeff:
Jeff’s always…
Casey:
Getting the “Girls Gone Wild” video, I don’t give a shit about that. That doesn’t impress me. “Jeff Gone Wild”, that’s a video I want to rent because I don’t believe it exists.
Jeff:
Oh, it exists, baby.
Casey:
Oh, yeah?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
But wait, I want to talk about the other commercial that’s on every single time.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So it’s either…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
“Casey Gone Wild” or it’s “Extendze” with a Z.
Casey:
That’s by [ Cronenberg ], right? It’s like a…
Jeff:
That’s right.
Casey:
It’s about a video game developer who gets assassinated?
Jeff:
Extendze… What was that movie called?
Casey:
“eXistenZ”.
Jeff:
Oh, yeah, “eXistenZ”.
Casey:
Fucking terrible film.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Fucking terrible film.
Jeff:
How awesome would it be to be a game developer if game development was like it is in the movies. Like, “Hackers”, the other night was on…
Casey:
It’s terrible in that film.
Jeff:
Oh, no, like…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
In “Hackers”, man, you got Angelina Jolie hanging around…
Casey:
What the fuck is “Hackers”?
Jeff:
It was awesome.
Casey:
I haven’t seen “Hackers”.
Jeff:
I… Yeah…
Casey:
“Tron”… So still, to this day… We talked about “Tron”. Fucking Flynn is awesome.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I totally agree, like, Jeff Bridges as surfer dude who designs video games…
Jeff:
Is awesome…
Casey:
That’s awesome.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I totally would do that. I would write “Space Paranoids” if I could have a little arcade and I lived up above it and slept on a futon. I don’t need anything else in life. That was fine.
Jeff:
That was it.
Casey:
Right? It’s totally fine with me.
Jeff:
Well, you need one more thing.
Casey:
What?
Jeff:
And that is Extendze…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So Extendze…
Casey:
What is Extendze?
Jeff:
It’s a male enhancement product, right…
Casey:
I see.
Jeff:
So it’s the standard thing you get spam for all the time…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But the thing that struck me is not that. It’s that there… It’s completely apparent that they’re selling penis enlargement pills on TV and it’s like…
Casey:
How do they advertise this?
Jeff:
That’s what I didn’t get. How can they get ads on TV for this?
Casey:
No, I mean literally. How are they advertising it? Like, I’m imagining they don’t show before and after cock shots…
Jeff:
No, no, no. No…
Casey:
Because I doubt that you can get a license to do that.
Jeff:
Right. They have testimonials from guys and their wives usually sitting there with knowing smiles.
Casey:
Oh, no. No.
Jeff:
And they have one kind of cleavage-y girl that goes out on the street talking kind of like… What was that? There was a show on HBO where they used to go and interview people on the street and… Anyway…
Casey:
Well, that’s tons of shows interviewing people on the street.
Jeff:
Well, about sex. And I don’t remember what the show on HBO was called.
Casey:
Oh, okay.
Jeff:
I don’t remember.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
Anyway…
Casey:
You mean they just interview, like, “So… Sex…”
Jeff:
Yeah. Right. And then they’d see what these… These nut jobs…
Casey:
Is it like “Jaywalking” or something where they ask about sex and they always have really retarded answers like they clip out…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Only the people who don’t have any idea what’s going on?
Jeff:
No, most of it…
Casey:
No?
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
It could, I’m sure.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
That’d be awesome but… Yeah.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Anyway, yeah. So my thing was how do they even… Like, you can’t advertise just with ridiculous claims, you would think. You can’t say, like, “Oh, here’s a mutual fund and we get an 8,000% return every day and…”
Casey:
Well, you sort of can, right, because a lot of those late… Like, I haven’t seen the Existenz ads because…
Jeff:
No, it’s Extendze…
Casey:
Sorry, the Extendze ad because I guess I don’t really watch late night TV these days. But when I was, like, a kid or something, like maybe not a kid but a teenager or something, late night TV ads did not focus on the penis so much as they focused on the wallet.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
There was, like, “Get Rich Quick” and stuff. And those are obviously all bullshit. And there was no enforcement of that, was there?
Jeff:
Well, you know the guy with all the question marks on his suit and he’s like…
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
Well, there’s some guy that yells and he’s like, “You can get money from the government [inaudible 23:45]
Casey:
Okay, no.
Jeff:
[inaudible 23:45] makes a a book you can buy that’s like…
Casey:
Okay. Alright. Yeah. So it’s always like a training DVD or a book. Yeah.
Jeff:
But he lost some lawsuit and then owed lots of cash.
Casey:
Really?
Jeff:
So he eventually did. I just don’t understand how these just keep happening. Like…
Casey:
Well, for starters… Do you know what this is like? Do you know what this is exactly like? This is like that shit that was going down where… With the witchcraft… People were making their penis disappear, right?
Jeff:
Oh, I see. You mean… Oh, okay… I can get where…
Casey:
So, like, in the other countries, people… Right… Those countries will never have ads on TV where someone is claiming to sell you an penis enhancement drug because the next day, 3,000 tribesman would all burn that person alive because the penis pill didn’t work, okay?
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
Because they have no problem showing up and going, “My penis is still small.“
Jeff:
Right. Okay.
Casey:
In the US, no one will ever say that.
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
They’re not gonna bring that lawsuit. You can bring the lawsuit that says, “I’m still poor.”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Nobody has a problem saying, “I’m still poor.”
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
But guys in this country are not going to be like, “My penis is still tiny.” And furthermore, I would like to introduce exhibit A which documents that it is still tiny. I have uncontrovertible proof that I have a small cop? That’s not gonna happen, okay? It’s not going to happen here. So those things will be on until there’s some kind of, like, Eliot Spitzer guy who secretly got burned by the pills…
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
Who is just waging a public campaign against deception, right? He personally has a huge cock, right? He’s not saying that he has a small cock. That’s not true.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Okay? It’s massive. But he’s just doing it for all the other people out there…
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
Who have been duped by these penis pills. It’s a public service.
Jeff:
I see. We just need somebody that brings the class action lawsuit in their name.
Casey:
That’s right.
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
Until that happens, you will still be ordering eXistenZ…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Over the internet of whatever the fuck…
Jeff:
I see. So that’s how they get away with it.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
I got you.
Casey:
You know, I kind of have… I think there’s a flip side to the question that is rarely addressed, right?
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
That you don’t look at here… It’s typical to ask why are they selling penis enlargement pills. Who is buying these penis enlargement pills? Why do they even care about penis enlargement pills? Because I think as I’ve said to you before but not on this podcast, if you’re at the point where you’ve got your penis out in front of someone, you should be pretty much done at that point.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Right? Like, it’s not like it’s gonna help you attract females out in the wild, right?
Jeff:
Well, I think…
Casey:
That’s not gonna help.
Jeff:
I think that’s what they’re imagining.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
If you’ve gone to the point where the penis comes out, you’re pretty much set. It’s not like, you know, you can show it… I guess you can wear tight trousers or something.
Jeff:
Well…
Casey:
You could be like a rock group rocking the latex or something. But it’s not really the style these days.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
You know?
Jeff:
Well, they can also… If that was your problem, you’re still clothed at that point. You could do whatever kind of deceptive action you want.
Casey:
Stuff that shit.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Stuff that shit.
Jeff:
Pack it in there. Yeah. But no…
Casey:
Anyway, package aside, okay… So I don’t know why anyone even gives a shit about the penis enlargement. It’s just, like, something I guess men can project whatever problem they’re having…
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
You know, on to that or something. And that’s fine, whatever. I don’t know the psychology of it.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Point being the flip side of this that I don’t understand besides all that crap… And they don’t work so shy are people buying that… Besides that crap is… It’s not gonna be this way forever, okay? Science is marching forward. You may have thought in the old days, right… In 1920, if someone told you that you’re gonna be able to take a pill and fuck all night…
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
You would’ve been like, “I don’t know what you’re talking about. That’s ludicrous,” right?
Jeff:
70-year olds are gonna be able to get busy.
Casey:
They’re gonna be able to just have sex all the time, right?
Jeff:
Right. It will actually be a problem…
Casey:
Yes, it will be a medical problem, how hard they are.
Jeff:
Right. There’ll be alternative medicines…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
That, like, have counteractive effects…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Like, yeah…
Casey:
Yes. You’ll have to basically take a pill to turn on and off…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Your 70-year old boner.
Jeff:
Yeah, you’re working it.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So…
Jeff:
Your wrinkled gray-framed…
Casey:
Yes. It would totally be within Ray Kurzweil’s ability to predict right now that eventually, we are going to have a penis enhancement pill…
Jeff:
That works….
Casey:
That works… Okay?
Jeff:
I want to know…
Casey:
What is going to happen at that point? What social changes can we make to avoid having a world where there’s all these idiots running around with 14-foot cocks? It’s going to be a medical problem…
Jeff:
No, it’s gonna be…
Casey:
When these idiots can actually order the pills…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And they won’t stop taking them.
Jeff:
No, it’ll be awesome.
Casey:
Why will it be awesome?
Jeff:
’Cos they can jump rope with themselves…
Casey:
Oh, no, it’s just gonna be a fucking circus sideshow…
Jeff:
No, it’s gonna be…
Casey:
It’s gonna be ridiculous.
Jeff:
It’s gonna be awesome.
Casey:
It’s gonna be ridiculous. They’re gonna have to make pants with a 3rd thing.
Jeff:
No, there’s gonna be like… There’s gonna be…
Casey:
You know what I mean? It’s gonna be like Snuffleapagus everyday.
Jeff:
In every sports car, there’s going to be a 3rd seat in the middle to put your cock, like…
Casey:
The shifter. You wrap it around the shifter. It’s right in the middle now, right?
Jeff:
Oh, man. So, no. I…
Casey:
But that’s what I… I’m seriously wondering ‘cos that’s gonna happen someday. It’s gonna happen.
Jeff:
Here’s a better question.
Casey:
Yeah?
Jeff:
Do you better… What was it called? Fin Fan? Or F--…
Casey:
Fen-Phen. The diet drug.
Jeff:
Fen-Phen? That worked… It made people…
Casey:
Yeah, but it’s illegal, right?
Jeff:
Wait, wait. Right.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But it actually did make people up to 30 pounds lighter.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
It fucking worked.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Okay. It also caused heart…
Casey:
Problems?
Jeff:
Like…
Casey:
Or… Deteriorate? What?
Jeff:
It would fuck up… It would deteriorate your mitral valve or whatever…
Casey:
What an odd side effect. Okay.
Jeff:
Right. So it would hurt that, right?
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
You can still order that on the internet if you’re, like… So I know people do.
Casey:
Huh? But what do you mean you can still order it?
Jeff:
People who want to lose 30 pounds can basically roll the dice that they’re going to drop dead of a heart attack. And people do.
Casey:
I see.
Jeff:
So I want to know like…
Casey:
I see.
Jeff:
Alright. So we do have the cock grower…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like, it works. But sorry, at the same time, what’s the worst side effect… It comes with a lobotomy…
Casey:
Okay, so you think that…
Jeff:
What would people still, you know, put up with? Like, “I don’t need to see out of my right eye. That’s only…”
Casey:
So you’re turning it kind of like a bet at this point?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
The person is betting, right?
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Do you think that you’re going to get a huge cock or drop dead?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And how many people will take that between, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And there’s some odds that they’re gonna give you.
Jeff:
I would be a surprisingly high number of men…
Casey:
A large number of people would take that bet?
Jeff:
Would just be like, “Fuck it.” I mean, it’s the same thing with steroids, right? It’s like, you read all this shit that goes wrong with steroids and yet, they still are incredibly popular…
Casey:
Yeah. Sure.
Jeff:
Among… Even… Like, okay. I can see you’re a professional athlete…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You take steroids because it’s your living, right?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You do it because it’s what’s going to pay for your family, your kids, their grandkids even, some of these things…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Okay, I can see that. Or you feel bad like, “I’m fucking up and I want to be better for the rest of my team.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
“I feel like I’m letting them down.”
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I can totally understand steroids as far as sports.
Casey:
But we are guilty of this ourselves.
Jeff:
Well, wait. Let me finish.
Casey:
Okay, go ahead.
Jeff:
But the steroids for people who are just doing bodybuilding non-competitively…
Casey:
Yeah?
Jeff:
They do it there and there’s no win. There’s only, like, “Oh, yes, you will get bigger but you’re going to have acne, a tiny little… You know, it shrinks your…”
Casey:
Yeah. And you need to take the penis-growing pills to offset the shrinkage…
Jeff:
Just to offset, right?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
I mean, you don’t even get bigger. This is just to prevent it from, like, withdrawing…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And so, you’re like… That’s what makes no sense to me. If you’re doing something just for, like… For fun almost…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
You’re never going to do this… And that’s what… And people take it so…
Casey:
I have no idea.
Jeff:
Yeah, I think the penis pill where you go blind is… People would still take it.
Casey:
Well, I drink caffeine before this podcast…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
As a performance enhancing drug.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Because as you know…
Jeff:
I am pro-stimulant, yes.
Casey:
Normally, I am not a fucking lunatic. Well, normally, I am not as much of a fucking lunatic. But I drink a Thai iced tea. And today, a coke in addition to a Thai iced tea…
Jeff:
Well, yeah, I think that’s a little…
Casey:
And then I go nuts, right?
Jeff:
I think that’s a placebo. But I think you…
Casey:
You think this is what I would normally be like if I had an excuse…
Jeff:
No. If I can get you worked up about something…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It doesn’t matter. It’s like, late at night, if I make fun of something and get you started, it doesn’t matter.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But…
Casey:
So you think it’s in me?
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
It is in me?
Jeff:
It’s like the Incredible Hulk.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
It’s like, “You wouldn’t like me when I’m wired,” you know?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
No, but that’s…
Casey:
But it turns out it’s not the wiring.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
You’re saying it’s just…
Jeff:
You get…
Casey:
It just comes on and the caffeine is an excuse?
Jeff:
No, I think the caffeine probably is the thing that, like, let’s you flip that switch.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But I still think…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I still think you have it in you.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
But I am all about pro-stimulant.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
In our line of work.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like, I drink a lot of caffeine.
Casey:
See, I don’t. Ever.
Jeff:
I have to… Right, you never do.
Casey:
I do not ever do it.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
But for the podcast… That is how dedicated I am to the podcast.
Jeff:
Yes. For you, the listeners…
Casey:
I will be in front of Congress some time when the podcast is huge and millions of people listen to it and they will be asking me…
Jeff:
“I don’t recall.”
Casey:
“Did you or did you not…” And I will be like, “I refuse to answer on the grounds this might incriminate me.”
Jeff:
No, they don’t do that. They’re just like, “I can’t recall.” They don’t even go to incrimination.
Casey:
Do you have… What are your 5th Amendment Rights in front of Congress? You don’t have any, do you? Or do you?
Jeff:
I think they can…
Casey:
No, you do. You do.
Jeff:
I think you can…
Casey:
’Cos Ali North did it, right?
Jeff:
Right. But they can still hold you in contempt for it.
Casey:
Well, sure. But I mean, you don’t have to answer them.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Right?
Jeff:
No, because you’re not in a court of law.
Casey:
But even in court of law, you don’t have to answer.
Jeff:
Right. Well, in a court of law, you definitely don’t have to. In front of them, I think that you can be compelled to speak. I don’t think you have 5th Amendment protection there…
Casey:
Because you’re not in danger?
Jeff:
You’re not in court…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
I don’t know what it means… I think most of the people take the tact of, “I don’t recall,” right?
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Like, that was the Gonzales dude just was like…
Casey:
Right, Alberto…
Jeff:
500,000 “I don’t recall’s”…
Casey:
[ He didn’t ] remember that.
Jeff:
Yeah. It was crazy.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
Yeah, okay. Alright, so the penis pill, eventually not only will work but this generation will go away is what you’re saying. They’ll eventually… Someone’s going to stand up, as it were…
Casey:
I see.
Jeff:
For all the men getting ripped off.
Casey:
Maybe.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Maybe Eliot Spitzer will do it now that he’s got some free time. He is a lawyer.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
And he’s had the experience necessary to deal with these kinds of issues.
Jeff:
Right. Yep.
Casey:
No one’s going to think less of him…
Jeff:
Exactly.
Casey:
If he takes on…
Jeff:
This case…
Casey:
A penis issue.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
In his next legal battle.
Jeff:
That’s totally true.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Well, there’s weird things… The whole class action thing is weird to me because there’s lots of things I think of all the time of this company has a lot of money. . .
Casey:
And no one’s going after them?
Jeff:
No one’s going after them or whatever…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And then there are other things where you’re like… The commercials also, on late at night, for that Meso---… The thing where you get… The weird cancer you get from asbestos?
Casey:
Oh.
Jeff:
Because…
Casey:
You mean the lung problems?
Jeff:
Well, you don’t get…
Casey:
’Cos that’s not cancer. Is it cancer from it?
Jeff:
What you get from asbestos is the fibers go into your lungs…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
They work their way out of the lungs…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And then, all of your organs are kept in a little bag…
Casey:
Yeah, the peritoneum…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
But the lung’s not in it.
Jeff:
No. Right.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
They work their way out to there. That’s where you get the cancer because it’s all…
Casey:
It goes through the peritoneum?
Jeff:
And you get it all over your entire…
Casey:
Oh.
Jeff:
So it’s like, if somebody has that, they open them up and they’re like, it’s all over the body cavity.
Casey:
There’s nothing they can do? Oh, okay.
Jeff:
And so, that’s one of the reasons why it’s so easy to tell if it was…
Casey:
Because it only looks like that?
Jeff:
Yeah, you don’t get this kind of thing…
Casey:
Any other way?
Jeff:
Any other way… But anyway, because that’s been so successful…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
There’s late night commercials, “If you know somebody who died from this, please call this number…”
Casey:
Ah, I see…
Jeff:
It’s like…
Casey:
Because we will take half the money for you and just send you the other half in a check or something?
Jeff:
Right. It’s almost like, we fill out some forms, submit them…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
We do a [ find and replace ]…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
For the last dude that died…
Casey:
We’re just a fucking clearing house…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Because we know there’s tons of people out there who didn’t fill the shit out…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And we are gonna find every last one of them.
Jeff:
So it’s just… And that is a very rare cancer but there’s enough people, enough pay-off, that they can advertise on TV for it…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
It’s just funny where you go… There’s lots of other things where you feel like they should be getting [ hosts ] for this, big time.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So, anyway. . .
Casey:
Well, one of the interesting things about analysis of various systems of government, in general, was actually that… They were saying that in systems like ours that are set up where the have the 3 branches of government…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And the Congress tends to be very confusing and deadlock-oriented and the executive…
Jeff:
The executive can make fast decisions…
Casey:
Is [inaudible 36:58]
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
It’s like either it went Democrat or… There’s no proportional representation.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
In non-proportional representation situations, right… Which even Congress is, if you think about it. It’s like, if 55% of you vote for the Republican and 45% of you vote for the Democrat, you don’t get…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Right? 55% of the Republican vote and 45% of Democrat vote on the issues. You get 100% Republican vote…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Or 100% Democratic vote, right? So it’s not proportional in any way. In non-proportional govt set-ups, which ours is, they said that a lot of issues get settled through the judiciary…
Jeff:
Right. Okay.
Casey:
Just because it’s like you have this constant sort of… It’s like a square wave. You’re like, all the way one way, all the way the other way, all the way one way, all the way the other way. It’s very hard to sort of hone in on a consensus on how to fix something…
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
That’s busted when you’re just constantly flipping between 2 extremes, right? So a lot of stuff gets… A lot of things that should have just been settled like, “Okay, the smoking thing’s fucked up.” We just fucking fixed that by passing a law that’s like, they have to pay so much [inaudible 38:11] whatever. That’s like… That doesn’t work so the judiciary ends up picking up that slack and class action lawsuits is kind of our country’s way of, “Okay, any rational human being knows that there was a big fuckup here and someone needs to do something about it. It ends up being in the Supreme Court.” Or not the Supreme Court but backed by the Supreme Court. . .
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And its Federal Court or something, you know, handles this shit.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So as a result, a lot of our social change shit — Brown versus Board of Education or whatever the fuck, these sorts of things…
Jeff:
Sure. Yeah.
Casey:
Why is that going through…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Those channels…
Jeff:
Or Roe, right?
Casey:
Or Roe versus Wade…
Jeff:
Because that’s one where they may have even gone too hard…
Casey:
Sure, you don’t know, right?
Jeff:
Where, like, they actually did legislate stuff…
Casey:
Yeah, exactly.
Jeff:
Through the judiciary…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And it was obviously an awesome thing to do but it’s…
Casey:
Well, it’s because the legislature is kind of broken.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Non-proportional representation means that compromise is not a likely outcome of any…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Parliamentary procedure…
Jeff:
Right. And that’s…
Casey:
And we call it Congress but that’s Parliamentary procedure, right?
Jeff:
That’s why gay marriage is gonna get solved that same way and all that.
Casey:
Absolutely. It is very unlikely that gay marriage will be banned or allowed by a Congressional action.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Right? It is much more likely that the Supreme Court will decide one way or the other on that issue.
Jeff:
Yep. Which is fine.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It’s scary if… The only thing that makes me nervous is when that happens is when we have a long run of conservative presidents…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And they stack the bench with a lot of people who are kind of psychos.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
The one good thing is to even be nominated in there, you might be conservative but you’re still reasonably intelligent. Like, because you’ve had…
Casey:
To some degree…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I mean, if you exclude [inaudible 39:57]
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
You’re probably okay.
Jeff:
Well, even [inaudible 39:59] if you read some of his…
Casey:
Which I have and know…
Jeff:
Well, I’ve seen a debate with him and… Shoot. Who’s the most liberal dude? The guy that’s really… Oh, I can’t remember.
Casey:
[ Souter ]? Kennedy? Who?
Jeff:
I’m sorry. I can’t remember right now. I’ll see if I can find the debate.
Casey:
Ruth Bader Ginsburg? Was it a man or a woman?
Jeff:
It was Ginsburg. That’s who it was.
Casey:
She’s a girl.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But it was… Did I say he?
Casey:
I thought so. That’s why I was trying. . .
Jeff:
Oh, think I said she.
Casey:
I was trying to think about who you’re talking about.
Jeff:
Yeah, but it was actually pretty good.
Casey:
Ruth Bader Ginsburg?
Jeff:
And I thought that…
Casey:
Or…
Jeff:
I felt like the debate…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Because there’s actually… I find… I don’t mind people I disagree with in power if they’re intelligent, right?
Casey:
Sure.
Jeff:
Like, Ron Paul. I disagree with a lot of what he wants…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But at the same time, I feel like he at least thinks about the issues instead of…
Casey:
Yes, it sounds like it was thought through in some way…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And… Yeah.
Jeff:
And you may disagree but at least he’s not making a decision solely on getting reelected…
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
Which is what you feel like most of the other decisions are being made upon.
Casey:
Or, in the case of Bush, because he had a gut feeling.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Reelection be damned.
Jeff:
Or vision, right?
Casey:
Right. Yeah. Or Christ told him to.
Jeff:
Right, he had a…
Casey:
A little private dialogue…
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So anyway, but I felt like he wasn’t completely psycho. But I don’t know. You’d have to send me some [inaudible 41:19]
Casey:
I don’t like… [ Anton ] [inaudible 41:20] is really on the edge for me in terms of considering him intelligent. He sounds to me a lot more like Rush Limbaugh than an intelligent person.
Jeff:
Yeah, I…
Casey:
He has a slant and his arguments are not arguments. They’re just rants in that direction if that makes sense.
Jeff:
I didn’t get that at all but, yeah… I didn’t get that at all in the…
Casey:
Yeah. He sounds like we sound on this podcast, right? Only with less data, if that’s possible. At least we’ve got some links, right?
Jeff:
We’ve got links…
Casey:
He didn’t even have that.
Jeff:
Most of our links are wrong especially if they’re from me…
Casey:
Yeah, but Sean corrects them.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So it’s not like somebody doesn’t provide accurate links after the fact ‘cos they do.
Jeff:
That’s our checks and balances.
Casey:
That’s right. Sean is the check and balance on our podcast.
Jeff:
We say shit and our listeners correct.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Totally.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Alright. We’re not at 41 minutes. We’ve done one thing on our list of 5 things. This is embarrassing.
Casey:
Well, this is before the podcast and we’re like, “What are some things we should talk about?” This is what happens every fucking time.
Jeff:
And we don’t ever hit… Right.
Casey:
We have one or two things, right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And I’m like, “That’s probably enough.” And you’re like, “Do you think that’s gonna be enough?” I’m like, “Dude…”
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
“We’re lucky if we even get to these.”
Jeff:
We have… Yeah, we did really bad.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
Okay. I don’t know how we got… I’m trying to remember if there’s something we didn’t end up talking about because we got off on the Supreme Court…
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
Penis pills, social change…
Jeff:
We’re not as good [ at unwinding as Chris ].
Casey:
I don’t even know what was on it.
Jeff:
Chris can always pop back…
Casey:
Unwind the stack?
Jeff:
And… Yes, we don’t have…
Casey:
I don’t know where we are in the stack. What I will say, though… I know I had something I wanted to mention about late night TV.
Jeff:
Okay. Hit me.
Casey:
So let’s jump back there because I know there was something.
Jeff:
Right. This is like [ Mark & Release ].
Casey:
Yeah, exactly.
Jeff:
We called release and we jumped all the way [ Pascal ] style to late night TV.
Casey:
I have no idea. I’m probably missing a bunch of things that I wanted to say ‘cos I don’t even know how we got on that tangent.
Jeff:
Do it. Release that bitch.
Casey:
But I saw something on late night TV, actually…
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
I guess it wasn’t that late night but it was on the television and we’d already gone over before…
Jeff:
You just walk into madness.
Casey:
I walk in and something’s on, right?
Jeff:
Madness.
Casey:
So it doesn’t matter how unlikely it is that I would select this thing if given a choice.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I still get a sampling, usually without the beginning of certain films that I would never otherwise have occasion to see, right?
Jeff:
Tuned in for.
Casey:
And not even because I’m, like, so high and mighty or something. Just… I don’t think these are films anyone’s ever heard of, right?
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I don’t… In other words, I don’t think I ever had the awareness that these films existed sometimes, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And they’re playing on the TV.
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
So this one, I came in and I saw some stuff on the screen and I was like, “Alright…” It looked kind of like… You know, it was definitely low budget…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Right? And the filming looked like it was sort of with a… Not… It was obviously a more recent film because it looked like it was shot on consumer gear…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
But not like the consumer gear of 1985, right?
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
Not the VHS camcorder.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
But something better than that but still consumer, right?
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I don’t think there was lighting in these shots…
Jeff:
For example…
Casey:
I think it was just like, whatever lights happen to be on or around or something, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And this was a film called “Arachnia”, right.
Jeff:
Oh, okay.
Casey:
Which to me sounds like a skin problem of some kind, right?
Jeff:
A bad case of arachnia.
Casey:
Right, “I’ve got a bad case of arachnia. I’ve got to put on this lotion twice a day…”
Jeff:
“I’ve got to take Extendze.”
Casey:
“Or my face slides off…”
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Right? It’s like, I don’t know, whatever.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Point being, I come in on a scene where there’s a few people, right. I guess the fiction is that they are college students…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
But they are all, like, 30--…
Jeff:
Believe it or not, I’ve seen this movie. Yes.
Casey:
No, you have not.
Jeff:
I’ve seen all movies.
Casey:
You have not seen this movie.
Jeff:
I’ve actually…
Casey:
Nobody besides me and the poor sods that were watching at God knows what time it was…
Jeff:
No. I don’t know how I’ve seen it…
Casey:
Have seen this film. No, you have not seen it.
Jeff:
I don’t know if I saw it late night TV…
Casey:
You have not seen this film.
Jeff:
Or if it’s been Ms3dk’d . I’ve seen this film.
Casey:
That seems likely.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I can see them Ms3dk-ing. It’d be a good one.
Jeff:
There’s actually even a worse one that is not from the same people, felt very…
Casey:
What does that mean, “a worse one”?
Jeff:
Like, another movie like this where it’s even…
Casey:
A monster movie?
Jeff:
Big insects in a weird place. ‘Cos this is the big spiders, right?
Casey:
They’re kind of spider-ish.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Like, they don’t really look like spiders. Well, no, that’s not true. They do look like spiders but they picked, like, the kind of spider that you don’t normally use as an iconic spider, right.
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
They didn’t pick a spider that kind of has the more, like, large-ish legs for its body.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
They picked one that has very short legs for his body, like, almost like…
Jeff:
Like a miniature Daschund version of a spider.
Casey:
I don’t remember. I want to say a Wolf Spider…
Jeff:
Like a Charlie Spider.
Casey:
But I guess I can’t remember what a Wolf Spider looks like.
Jeff:
Okay. Alright.
Casey:
So, I don’t know.
Jeff:
Wolf-ish…
Casey:
Point being they’re very odd. You can look up this movie and they’ll have shots of these “spiders”. Anyway, they’re these students. They all look like they’re 35 or something, right. They’re actors who are way fucking older than 22.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Or whatever the age that even an old-ish student could conceivably be.
Jeff:
That’s awesome.
Casey:
They’re 28 or 29, something like this.
Jeff:
“I can’t wait ‘til I’m old enough to drink.”
Casey:
Yeah, it’s something like that, right. And this movie has everything you could possibly want, right. It’s got this dude who’s supposedly the professor who’s incredulous, right. They’re on this farm, right, and there’s a farmer-ish character who’s got a carcass of one of these spider things, right.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And this thing was something that they toured the country with — his grandfather or father, whatever…
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
Toured the country with it, right, as like…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
In, like, a circus as the untamed spider beast. Come see the untamed spider beast.
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
5 cents a peek…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Or something, right?
Jeff:
And the scientist is no--…
Casey:
He’s like, “Oh, it’s papier-m_ché.”
Jeff:
He’s a skeptic.
Casey:
“This is a hoax.”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
whatever, right?
Jeff:
Like those annoying scientists are in real life…
Casey:
Totally those annoying scientists, right. He does not bother to just go see if the thing is papier-m_ché, right. It would take 5 seconds, take a little drill, you know, ‘tink tink tink’, “Does it have internal organs?” Right?
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
Probably [inaudible 47:31] farmer dude is not gonna know enough about arachnid… What’s the word I’m looking for?
Jeff:
Internal anatomy?
Casey:
Anatomy…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Yeah, exactly. Insect…
Jeff:
Google spider…
Casey:
Well… Are arachnids insects?
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
They’re a separate branch, right?
Jeff:
They’re separate. 8 legs or 6.
Casey:
So arachnid anatomy…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
To, like, construct actual internal organs…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Right? It’d be [inaudible 47:54] to find out. But no, he doesn’t do that. He’s just like, “Bah! I’m not even gonna waste my time on that shit.”
Jeff:
Yeah, of course.
Casey:
But he should’ve wasted his time on that shit.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
It turns out, it was real.
Jeff:
It was real.
Casey:
It was not a hoax.
Jeff:
Oh, man.
Casey:
And not is it real but they’re coming back. They are coming back, more of them…
Jeff:
Where did they go? Oh, I see.
Casey:
Unclear.
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
It is mentioned… I didn’t see the beginning of the film.
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
So maybe there was some explanation. It is mentioned that the meteor… “The” meteor, not a meteor but “the” meteor…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
That hit a few nights ago…
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
May have brought them out…
Jeff:
Reanimated.
Casey:
Of their cave.
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
That they normally stay hidden in.
Jeff:
Yeah, they hibernate.
Casey:
Why would it take a meteor. Why would you add meteor, right? Normally, the meteor is there because it’s radioactive or something, right? And it sort of creates the giant spiders.
Jeff:
No, no…
Casey:
They fucked that up. They’re like, “No, no, no. A meteor hits and it wakes them up.” It’s like…
Jeff:
Of course.
Casey:
“Uh, okay. Why did you need a meteor for that?” But fine, you know, whatever. You guys are in charge.
Jeff:
They need a reason.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So this movie gets better because for some reason I don’t know… Like, I don’t know how people write these sort of low budget horror films, right. The 2, like, sorority sisters, if you will..
Jeff:
Awesome. Yep.
Casey:
Of this film who are, yeah, both like 28 or something, let’s say… They…
Jeff:
They’ve been held back.
Casey:
They need to sleep in the same bed together that night, right…
Jeff:
Oh, awesome. This is getting…
Casey:
Because, you know, there’s not enough beds in the farmhouse for all of them, okay? There’s not enough places to sleep.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
And let’s just say that they’re a little experimental, right?
Jeff:
Of course. Yeah.
Casey:
Why not?
Jeff:
Why not?
Casey:
I mean, why wouldn’t they be? Everyone is, right?
Jeff:
Sure.
Casey:
You get 2 girls in the same bed together and it’s just bound to be a crazy lesbian adventure.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
You know that’s what happens.
Jeff:
Exactly.
Casey:
It can’t be helped, right?
Jeff:
That’s why we need group showers in all dorms.
Casey:
This movie somehow manages to take it to the next level where they’re just like, “Okay, we have a pillow fight and then we sort of start to have a little bit of an encounter.” They start playing porn music.
Jeff:
Really?
Casey:
Immediately, at that point.
Jeff:
Awesome.
Casey:
So it’s like, one of them says something to the other one like, “Have you ever made out with a girl?” And immediately, they go like…
Jeff:
Awesome.
Casey:
For literally 15 seconds. It’s like they just put in a little clip of the porn music…
Jeff:
Clip… I see…
Casey:
Because then, the spiders come.
Jeff:
Well, that’s like, you know, you’re trying to do an homage…
Casey:
It’s the weirdest fucking thing.
Jeff:
It’s the homage…
Casey:
It’s not an homage…
Jeff:
No, it’s like when they take a little bit of…
Casey:
Oh, they’re bringing it in?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
They’re like, “These are our influences…”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
“In this little clip of music, you know, from a famous French director in my movie…”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
“Was meant to evoke something.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Their…
Casey:
It’s contextual.
Jeff:
Right. Their influences were all porn films which is why the writing is probably so good…
Casey:
Except it’s not a porn film, which is the… It’s a monster movie, which is weird.
Jeff:
Well, no, but… You’re right.
Casey:
His manner of expression is monster movie.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
But he was influenced by the porn films.
Jeff:
Exactly.
Casey:
He wants to do some of the same things they did in porn films…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
He wants to take that into a new genre.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I see. That’s brilliant.
Jeff:
’Cos when the spiders… When the meteor comes down and crashes into the earth…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And all the spiders are climbing out of the tunnel…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
They play the same music…
Casey:
So, I’ll say one more thing about this film, though… You have to watch it.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s obviously worth watching. It’s so bad.
Jeff:
I’ve seen it, yeah.
Casey:
I mean, yeah, you’ve seen it because you’ve seen everything.
Jeff:
It’s pretty crazy.
Casey:
The thing that topped it off for me was then the spiders are coming to attack en masse, okay.
Jeff:
Uh-huh.
Casey:
There’s a bunch of spiders coming.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
But these people are determined to fight them off.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
So they have dynamite…
Jeff:
Like all sorority sisters do…
Casey:
And…
Jeff:
They’re scary. Don’t want to fuck with…
Casey:
Well, the sorority sisters are, too, but there’s also, like, the tough guy…
Jeff:
Uh-huh…
Casey:
And the tough girl…
Jeff:
Oh, okay.
Casey:
Who are not the sorority sisters. They’re separate people, right.
Jeff:
I see. They’re the leaders.
Casey:
I don’t know who the fuck they were but yes, they were the leaders.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
And they find some dynamite and some guns and they’re gonna, like, fight it off every time the dude lights and throws a stick of dynamite, they then show the really bad stop motion spider moving and they superimpose, like, the same fire clip-art…
Jeff:
Awesome.
Casey:
Over the top. It is not together in the scene at all. It’s just a superimposed fire.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And then nothing happens to the spider. They just cut away. It’s like, “Oh, we got them.”
Jeff:
It’s basically exactly like video game art. It’s like, play the…
Casey:
It’s like old shitty video game art…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Where they used to just play a sprite…
Jeff:
Of the flame…
Casey:
Of the flame…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It is that, exactly.
Jeff:
Awesome.
Casey:
Which reminds me, oddly enough, whoever made this, I feel like, played “It Came from the Desert”. Do you know that game I’m talking about? It was a title for the Amiga by Cinemaware about giant ants…
Jeff:
Because you’re feeling influences… Maybe they were influenced…
Casey:
Okay, I’m just gonna list some of the things that made me think that I was like, “Okay…” ‘Cos “It Came from the Desert” was supposed to be a pulp horror film.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Like they, right, it’s based… Like giant ants, you know? So it, in some sense, is just in that genre. So it’s not unusual that some things from “It Came from the Desert”…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Would also show up in a horror film even if that person’s never seen “It Came from the Desert”…
Jeff:
Sure.
Casey:
Because it’s all horror. It’s the same shit.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Obviously, it’s not unusual that the guy’s gonna use dynamite to fight away the giant creature, right?
Jeff:
Alright, I’m with you.
Casey:
Okay. But there are some alarming similarities that sort of…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Tie things together like for example, the way that you have to, like, sort of kill the giant spiders is they’re totally impervious to damage except for their eyes.
Jeff:
Oh, I see.
Casey:
So if you shoot out both their eyes, then they’re done for, right?
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
They can’t keep going.
Jeff:
Sure.
Casey:
Exactly the same thing in this film.
Jeff:
I see.
Casey:
And I was like, “Okay, is that a reference to an earlier film that I’m unaware of or did they just play this game?” The weapons that you had in “It Came from the Desert” were, like, a pistol, dynamite that you lit and threw repeatedly at the waves of incoming insects… They made that same high-pitched noise. I don’t know. It’s just, like, feeling kind of similar to me.
Jeff:
It reminded you.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
That’s awesome.
Casey:
Anyway.
Jeff:
That’s your good action?
Casey:
I wouldn’t say it’s my good action.
Jeff:
Well, actually, okay… So we’re talking about bad movies. I’m gonna ask you some questions. I prepared something.
Casey:
About what?
Jeff:
I prepared something about movies and bad movies.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
This came up…
Casey:
It’s a good segue, then. My arachnophobia…
Jeff:
God… Did you have that one…
Casey:
Were you groaning at the movie or the joke?
Jeff:
What’s that? The joke…
Casey:
Ugh…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s quality humor.
Jeff:
Okay. So I wanted to give you some pairs of movies…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
And I want to ask you which one you’d rather watch or…
Casey:
I have to pick one?
Jeff:
Yes, you have to pick one, okay?
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Alright, so would you rather…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
I’ve got some listed. We only have a few here.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Now, I’m afraid that most of these, you probably haven’t seen but I’ll assume that…
Casey:
Well, I’ll pick which one I would rather see for the first time, then.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Because otherwise, it’s which one I would want to watch again, you’re saying?
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So would you rather watch…
Casey:
Yeah…
Jeff:
“Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon”…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Or… In fact, let’s make this interesting. Would you rather watch “Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon” twice…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Or…
Casey:
It’s like a 3-hour film.
Jeff:
“The Hulk” once?
Casey:
So you’re asking me which Ang Lee movie…
Jeff:
Exactly…
Casey:
I want to see?
Jeff:
Exactly. Because I know you’re a fan.
Casey:
Well, here’s what I would say. There’s, like… That’s like an absolute instant obvious pick for me.
Jeff:
Okay. Really?
Casey:
There’s no way… I’ve never seen “The Hulk” and there’s no way I will ever see “The Hulk” unless there’s a massive amount of money in it for me.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
“Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon”, I actually like.
Jeff:
Oh, okay. I thought I hated it.
Casey:
I don’t care for heavily floaty martial arts…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Of which that film has a number of scenes…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
But on the whole, I like quite a bit of the things in “Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon”…
Jeff:
Okay. Good.
Casey:
Right?
Jeff:
This was useful.
Casey:
So that was an easy one…
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
For me to pick… There are actually some good fight scenes in that, as well.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Right? Yeah, no question about that. And I like some of the story elements, too…
Jeff:
I like…
Casey:
And the costume design is decent.
Jeff:
I liked “Crouching Tiger” quite a bit. You know that.
Casey:
Okay. Yeah.
Jeff:
And I hated “The Hulk”.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But I had you as a “Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon” hater, like…
Casey:
That’s… No, I am not a hater.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I just… It’s not one of my favorite Kung Fu films…
Jeff:
But you don’t mind it.
Casey:
But I do not mind it.
Jeff:
Okay. Alright, so that’s a clear one.
Casey:
I will watch that if it’s on.
Jeff:
Alright, so it’s. . .
Casey:
So that wasn’t much to talk about.
Jeff:
We’ll see if this gets harder for you.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Okay. The next one is a pair of movies versus another pair of movies.
Casey:
Whoa, okay, this is getting complicated.
Jeff:
Okay. Would you rather watch “The Matrix”…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And “The Matrix Reloaded” which we just watched a few days ago and it was fucking brutal…”
Casey:
On RiffTrax.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Versus…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
The pair of movies — “The Empire Strikes Back” and “Return of the Jedi”?
Casey:
Oh, “Empire” and “Return”.
Jeff:
“Empire” and “Return”?
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Well, see, “The Matrix”, to me, like… “The Matrix” was kind of just like a temporal film. It was like they did some interesting things with action staging that hadn’t really been done before. But other than that, it was just crap. It’s just crap through and through.
Jeff:
I liked the first “Matrix”…
Casey:
I don’t think those are quality films.
Jeff:
I thought it was good and I think it will withstand for a while. It did steal a lot of stuff from other movies but it did it well. And I think the paused… The camera rotation thing was new and interesting the first time you saw it.
Casey:
Right. Yeah.
Jeff:
So, I thought it was a good film. I think “Empire” is only… You like “Empire” more than I do, I think. I liked “Star Wars” better than “Empire”. So I was trying to make it…
Casey:
Well, here’s the thing, right. I feel the same way about “The Matrix” as I feel about Kevin Costner, right, which is the first time you see Kevin Costner in a film, you think he’s acting that way. So you might like it. I saw “Bull Durham”. That was the first film I saw with him in it. For all I knew, he was a good actor. That was a good film. I enjoyed that film, right. But then, you see another movie with Kevin Costner and you realize he’s not playing a weird, drab, odd, stunted delivery character. That’s all he can do to act. That’s his acting, right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And at that point, you’re like, “Wow, I bet that would’ve been a much better movie if someone else had acted in it.”
Jeff:
Yeah, maybe. I think…
Casey:
That’s “The Matrix”. It’s like the first time you see a “Matrix” film, right, you’re like, “Wow, there’s some cool shit in there.” And then you realize that’s all they can do. Like, they only knew how to have a bunch of trench coats and people saying weird shit that doesn’t really make any sense in weird, like, stilted tones.
Jeff:
Sure.
Casey:
And through a really weird green filter, right?
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
That’s all they’ve got. That’s what they’ve got. They haven’t got anything else to bring to the party.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
So at that point, “The Matrix”, to me, was just like a washout. It’s like, “Ah, I don’t give a shit about this.” “Empire Strikes Back” I think had enough really cool shit in it. I can appreciate just the making of “Empire Strikes Back”. Like, you go and look at that film and you look at, like, those Imperial Walkers, you know, those big, huge things that lumber around…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I just marvel… I look at that and I’m like, “Wow. This is back when people used to, like, care about animation. And it looks so neat. And there’s problems with it because, hey, it was hard back then. It was stop-motion, whatever.” But it just feels so good. You’re like, it had this, like, visceral sense of production…
Jeff:
Yeah…
Casey:
That gets lost nowadays a lot, I think, in a lot of films…
Jeff:
Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t… You know, we spoke about this often of pod’…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Yeah, I actually watched that about 2 weeks ago…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And it… I remember liking it like everyone does. But I actually liked… When I re-watched them, I liked the first “Star Wars” a lot better than “Empire”. And “Empire” just doesn’t do it for me.
Casey:
You’re talking about ‘cos the story…
Jeff:
No, well, it’s like… “Empire” was the first time when the universe that he created started to contract where “Star Wars”,,,
Casey:
Yeah, expansive…
Jeff:
The universe was fucking huge.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
And you’re like… This is a place and he’s just showing you all these interesting things. As soon as you’re like, he’s your father, and all this shit, you’re like…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It’s all of a sudden… There’s 5 people in this world that matter.
Casey:
Well…
Jeff:
And it doesn’t matter how many worlds there are, how big the empire is, because none of those people matter. It doesn’t matter who’s… No one but the Emperor and Darth Vader matter in this universe for bad guys because no one else has anything to do. So…
Casey:
Well, I don’t know. It’s hard for me…
Jeff:
And “Return of the Jedi” is actually just literally painful for me. It may be even worse for me to watch than some of the other ones.
Casey:
It has some good stuff in it, I think. I don’t know. ‘Cos see, here’s the thing. I’m not really a big “Star Wars” fan. I was when I was 7, right. I mean, I was… Here’s the thing. I was zero when “Star Wars” was released, right. I was born the same year “Star Wars” came out, 1976.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And so, I really couldn’t be on the “Star Wars” wave. I wasn’t one of those kids who was crazy about “Star Wars” because I wasn’t sentient for the most part.
Jeff:
Sure. Okay.
Casey:
But by the time I was 5 or 6, at that point, and it was, like, “Empire” and then “Jedi” or whatever, I was. And I was into it just like all the other kids, right. I had the little figurines or whatever and the snow speeder, you know. One of the first things I did, actually, when I learned to program 3D was I made some ships that you could rotate that were kind of like a snow speeder…
Jeff:
Wire frame?
Casey:
Yeah, exactly. I used to put them in by hand, you know, like on the graph paper…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
God, so many weird things about…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Anyway, getting totally off-topic but the point being… So I was kinda into this as a kid but when I watched the “Star Wars” movies later as an adult, I just… It offends my sensibilities how bad the dialogue is in these films.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And it makes it pretty hard for me to enjoy them kind of as a film, right? But I do appreciate some of the elements of those films which is why I say that it’s not hard for me to watch “Return of the Jedi” and enjoy it because I’m not watching it like a fan. I’m not, like, “Oh, this is a great movie.”
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
So the… It never was a great movie for me, really, you know, except when I was young and too retarded to know. And even then, I wasn’t crazy about it, right?
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I never dressed up as Luke Skywalker for Halloween, I don’t think right.
Jeff:
Right. So it sounds like it wouldn’t have mattered which “Star Wars” because I had actually “Star Wars” + “Phantom Menace” initially but it sounds like “The Matrix” would have lost no matter what.
Casey:
No, “Phantom Menace” would have probably lost there because those films didn’t have any of the things I’m talking about.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
They didn’t have any of the artists and craftsmanship…
Jeff:
Well, no, but I mean, I’m saying… We’re doing a pair of movies. So I’m saying “Star Wars” + “Phantom Menace”…
Casey:
Yeah. As soon as you added “Phantom Menace” in there…
Jeff:
That’s enough of a negative?
Casey:
Yeah, ‘cos those films are pretty devoid of any artistic quality of any kind, right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s got all the same bad dialogue and writing that the earlier films had, right?
Jeff:
Well, we RiffTrax…
Casey:
Minus the quality of the sort of classic story arc that they ripped off, right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
That’s gone. And the special effects were done right at the point in time when ILM sucked. Because there is this kind of… There is this arc in ILM history if you look at it, right?
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Where they were geniuses, essentially, right, doing some of the most amazing shit like those space battle scenes and those walker scenes are just amazing for their time and all the things they had to go through to try and get that shit right just impresses me.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
I have no end of respect for the amount of craftsmanship that goes into something like that, right?
Jeff:
And then they got [ careers ].
Casey:
Then, in the middle, I don’t know what happened there. In the middle, it was really bad. And you’d see stuff like “Phantom Menace” or when they redid the “Star Wars” shots…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And you’re just like, “This looks like something I could whip out in 3D Studio. Like, it looks like you guys don’t know anything. It looks like you don’t even know…” They don’t even understand lighting. It’s like they didn’t understand how to light match a shot so that the shit in it didn’t pop it. I was just like, “What happened to here?” Right? Like, where did all the good people go? I guess they went to Pixar or something. But Pixar’s films didn’t look that good at the time, either, render-wise. So, I don’t know where they went. I have no idea.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Anyway, then eventually, like with “Pirates of the Caribbean”, they kind of got back to a core competency of making shit that looked really good and kind of impressed me. Like, I looked at the stuff in “Pirates of the Caribbean”. It’s like, “Some of this shit looks fucking fantastic.”
Jeff:
Right. Not great movies but…
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
Right. But they looked good.
Casey:
Well, like…
Jeff:
And they were good [inaudible 64:24]
Casey:
What’s the… Not the original “Pirates of the Caribbean”. I’m thinking of…
Jeff:
The second [inaudible 64:27]
Casey:
“Dead Man’s Chest”?
Jeff:
Yeah, the one with…
Casey:
What’s the one with the Kraken and all that shit?
Jeff:
With the whole crew…
Casey:
And the crew, yeah…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
That was unbelievable, you know, and I looked at how they did it and stuff and they had…
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
You know, pages where they talked about how they were doing it. And it’s like… It seems like they’re kind of back to the meticulous, like, “We kind of know what we’re doing now,” thing.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I don’t know if maybe that’s just…
Jeff:
It could also be…
Casey:
Some dudes there are good…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And the rest of the company still sucks. I don’t know. But point being…
Jeff:
It could also be that…
Casey:
Earn some respect there.
Jeff:
We all… They figured out ways to do most of the stuff pretty well — How they film it, how they put in the markers and stuff like that. I think most effects are a lot easier now than they were even 2 or 3 years ago.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
In another 3 or 4 years, it’s gonna be piece of cake but…
Casey:
Well, I mean, to some degree, I guess that’s true but I don’t know that there’s… There wasn’t a whole lot of stuff that they did on “Dead Man’s Chest” that they could not have done on “Phantom Menace” or at least the 3rd one, right?
Jeff:
Maybe…
Casey:
Let’s say?
Jeff:
I don’t know. That’s a good question because… I mean, they did have that thing where they’re like, “Yeah, this took a year to render out the crew walking across, you know, the bow with the ship kind of thing. And you’re like, “If that was 3 years ago, that would’ve been 3 years or something.”
Casey:
I don’t know.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I mean, they do strike me as… They were talking about the fact that they had to ask NVIDIA to help them speed up the rendering for it, right? So there’s definitely… They don’t have a strong render team, that’s for fucking sure, right.
Jeff:
Product placement…
Casey:
Or anti-product placement, if you will…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Like, it was so slow we had to ask them to fix it.
Jeff:
Yeah, [ that’s true ].
Casey:
But I don’t know.
Jeff:
Alright, let me give you the last one and then we’re gonna wrap.
Casey:
Alright, sorry, we kind of got off-topic there. Okay, we’re gonna wrap? What’s the last one?
Jeff:
You said that funny, like, “Oh, we kind of got off-topic.”
Casey:
Oh.
Jeff:
It’s kind of a crazy thing to say.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like that never happens…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Well, here’s the last one. This is a Will Smith category, the Will Smith… I might do this with a Will Smith category every time…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Because they’re so…
Casey:
Oh, this is gonna be a recurring segment on the podcast, you think?
Jeff:
Yeah. I’ll do this a couple times.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
I’ve got multiple options here to do.
Casey:
Okay. Alright.
Jeff:
Okay. Would you rather watch…
Casey:
Yeah…
Jeff:
“Independence Day”…
Casey:
Oh, man.
Jeff:
And “The Wild, Wild West”, a double feature…
Casey:
Oh, I haven’t seen “Wild West”…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
But I’m aware of it, obviously…
Jeff:
Versus “I Am Legend”… New movie…
Casey:
Which I also haven’t seen…
Jeff:
Okay. Which isn’t too bad…
Casey:
I’ve heard it’s alright.
Jeff:
I’m throwing in a doozy with it, “Men in Black 2”. So would you rather watch “Independence Day” and “The Wild, Wild West” or “I Am Legend” plus “Men in Black 2”, which is one of those absolutely painful movies?
Casey:
Well, here’s what I can say about that. The only film in that set of 4 that I’ve seen is the first one…
Jeff:
“Independence Day”…
Casey:
Is “Independence Day”…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
I haven’t seen any of the other ones at all.
Jeff:
Right. And you hadn’t even seen it. You saw it RiffTrax’d, right?
Casey:
What, “Independence Day”?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
No, I saw “Independence Day”. I saw “Independence Day” in the theater, I think.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
A long time ago. Yeah. “Independence Day” is definitely up there on the worst films versus its box office gross, you know, of all time.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
That movie made something like a hundred million Dollars or something, I think.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Opening weekend. They had a huge opening weekend…
Jeff:
There’s a funny thing about that where…
Casey:
And it’s shit.
Jeff:
I like…
Casey:
It is shit.
Jeff:
Yeah. I’m not…
Casey:
Pure garbage, that film.
Jeff:
Yes. You hate it more than I do.
Casey:
Yeah, it’s terrible.
Jeff:
I actually… I have about an hour of that movie that I like…
Casey:
I see.
Jeff:
I actually like… And then, the other part of the movie is so bad…
Casey:
It is terrible.
Jeff:
That I can’t take it. So it’s a funny movie for me to watch. It is one of those ones that happen, if it’s on, I usually watch the end all the way through the fucking painful part of the president and all this shit. Yeah, so you’ve got a hard choice.
Casey:
So basically, it’s really hard for me to say because I haven’t seen any of these films…
Jeff:
Well, imagine which would you sit down and you’re like, “Okay, we’re watching 4 hours. Take your pick. Which would…”
Casey:
And I can’t okay the RiffTrax to “Independence Day”?
Jeff:
No.
Casey:
’Cos the RiffTrax to “Independence Day” was aweseome.
Jeff:
The RiffTrax was awesome. Yes.
Casey:
I loved it.
Jeff:
That’s my favorite RiffTrax I’ve ever… I’ve stymied Casey.
Casey:
Let’s see. “Wild West” actually has all actors I like, I think…
Jeff:
But it’s one…
Casey:
Kevin Klein…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Who I like…
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
Salma Hayek who I wouldn’t say is a good actress. She’s hot.
Jeff:
But she has other assets, yes.
Casey:
She’s like, hot… I think I mentioned this to you before. She’s like, 100 years old. And she’s still hot. I don’t know what happened there.
Jeff:
She could be a witch.
Casey:
Maybe. Who’s the other… The bad guy… There’s a bad guy in it. Who is that?
Jeff:
I don’t remember who’s that, yeah.
Casey:
I didn’t see it, again, so it’s hard for me to remember.
Jeff:
Yeah. I don’t remember.
Casey:
So, it might be…
Jeff:
It is a…
Casey:
It’s terrible?
Jeff:
A terrible movie.
Casey:
I know it has a giant mechanized spider, which scares me a little.
Jeff:
It’s so bad.
Casey:
“Men in Black 2”… I liked it “Men in Black 1”…
Jeff:
I thought “Men in Black 1” was okay.
Casey:
So… You know…
Jeff:
“Men in Black 2”…
Casey:
2… Issues? Alright. And what’s the other one in that pair?
Jeff:
“I Am Legend” which should have been a good movie and wasn’t.
Casey:
I think I’m gonna go with that second half because…
Jeff:
“I Am Legend” and “Men in Black 2”, double feature…
Casey:
“I Am Legend”, I think either… There’s only one of 2 things that could be true here. Either all 4 movies are shit or 3 of the movies are shit and “I Am Legend” is okay. So I might as well go with the pair that’s shit okay and not shit, shit…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Or at least has a chance of being shit okay.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
’Cos I’m pretty sure that “Wild West”…
Jeff:
The polar coordinates here are…
Casey:
Yeah, I’m pretty sure that “Wild West” plus “Independence Day” has no chance of having anything in it that I want to see.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
Right? But the other side might have some parts I like, like in “I Am Legend” which, again, I do think had pretty good reviews. There might be some good scenes in it.
Jeff:
Alright. Well, Fresh Prince in the house for watching next week.
Casey:
Yeah, it was all Will Smith-in’.
Jeff:
Yep, all…
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
He got jiggy with it.
Casey:
Jeff: Now, I don’t actually have to watch the ones you said, do I?
Casey:
Well, yeah. You do. Oh, no. I am running away.
Jeff:
Alright. Well, we’ll stop there before we go on another…
Casey:
Yep.
Jeff:
We’re just under the CD length…
Casey:
Yep, we’ve got to stay under it…
Jeff:
Which your dad pointed out…
Casey:
We’ve got a standard… 72 minutes is the conservancy length. So wrap it up quick and we’ll be really good.
Jeff:
Alright. Email us at Podcast@MollyRocket.com…
Casey:
Podcast@MollyRocket.com with your thoughts, your hopes, your dreams, any movie pairs you’d like evaluated…
Jeff:
Yeah, we’ll…
Casey:
In this fashion. We’ll put them up there.
Jeff:
Yeah. Alright, thanks, everybody. We’ll see you next week.
Casey:
Have a good one.
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casey muratori
the jeff and casey show - season 1 - episode 14
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