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The Technician
No Imperfections Noted
The Jeff and Casey Show
Jeff and Casey Time
Casey Muratori
Seattle, WA
Waiting for a Message You Don't Want To Hear
"You don't have a whole pimp, just a pimp head."
Original air date: March 2nd, 2008
Topics. PS3 vs. 360. Widgets. Clive Barker’s Jericho. Hellgates. Army of Two. The first Metacritic 100% games.
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Transcript
Jeff:
Alright, welcome to the Casey and Jeff Podcast.
Casey:
Hello.
Jeff:
Yes. Casey’s right across. This amazing set-up that’s taken… 2 days? 3?
Casey:
It’s 2 days.
Jeff:
2 days, 4 computers, 3 operating systems…
Casey:
5 computers, my laptop included.
Jeff:
Yep, 5 computers. 3 operating systems…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
And it was the one that was the least likely to work. Win-64 worked.
Casey:
Yes, Win-64 came through for us. This is sort of cutting edge technology. We are running Win-64 and recording off of a… Some ancient microphones…
Jeff:
That’s right. This podcast can actually run indefinitely.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
The file size will never be exceeded.
Casey:
Okay. Some of you are probably wondering why we’re doing a podcast and I would like to sort of, in a vote of solidarity, say that I also don’t know why we’re doing a podcast. But Jeff is the one whose idea it was. So I’ll let him explain why we are doing a podcast to you today.
Jeff:
Okay. Yes. There’s 2 reasons for the podcast: Number 1, we have to document in detail Casey is now an incredible Sony fanboy.
Casey:
That’s not true. That is absolutely false.
Jeff:
That’s number 1. We’re going to get that on tape. And the other reason is just because we have so much good stuff to say.
Casey:
Oh, alright. I can certainly abide by that.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
But let’s address this PS3 fanboy thing. Why are you saying this?
Jeff:
Well, okay. So we got a PS3.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
At the house…
Casey:
Yes, we did.
Jeff:
Has the PS3 been turned off since we got it? Has it been shut off?
Casey:
I have to say no. It probably has not been. It has been on the entire time.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
And part of the reason for that is, of course… This was somewhat shocking that somehow Soy managed to do good software for their system this time around which is amazing. I mean, it’s something that Sony’s never been good at.
Jeff:
It’s awesome.
Casey:
Yeah. They’re the company that ships dev kits that are sort of barely functional with no compiler or no debugger, no…
Jeff:
The video, the music, everything just worked. And we’re only talking about the media part at first here but…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Yeah. When we plugged in that USB and it freaking just worked, we about shit our pants man. It was…
Casey:
Well, I did not shit my pants because what happened when we plugged in the USB drive was exactly what I thought would happen when we plugged in the USB drive which was nothing.
Jeff:
Okay, yeah.
Casey:
We got absolutely nothing out of the USB drive.
Jeff:
That’s totally true.
Casey:
It just said “USB device”. When you clicked on it, it said nothing. No video is found. But…
Jeff:
After an internet search…
Casey:
Yes. The shit did not stay out of the pants for long because after an internet search, we found out that if you named the secret directory “Video” and then put your videos in there…
Jeff:
Then it worked.
Casey:
Yeah. It plays DivX. It plays…
Jeff:
Does music have to be on there? Do you have to call it “Music”?
Casey:
Oh, this is the best. I assumed because you had to call it “Video” that you would call it “Audio” but it’s not. You call it “Music”.
Jeff:
Music, alright.
Casey:
Yeah. But I figured that out pretty quickly.
Jeff:
Okay, yeah. It plays DivX, XVid… It is like the wares machine.
Casey:
I have to eat my words. It is actually a good machine. Now, it’s worth noting that we have bought exactly zero games…
Jeff:
Well, no.
Casey:
In retail for this machine.
Jeff:
Yes, with retail.
Casey:
Like, the attach rate for our PS3 is zero.
Jeff:
Well, you play a little Guitar Hero 3. That’s out there. It’s sitting out there.
Casey:
Well, I mean, you had the [inaudible 3:19] copy from [ Rad ] I mean, no one purchased that.
Jeff:
We haven’t purchased one, okay.
Casey:
But we did purchase the fabulous Pixel Junk Monsters…
Jeff:
Pixel Junk Monsters…
Casey:
And played the hell out of that game.
Jeff:
We’re making up new ways to play it. We played it so thoroughly.
Casey:
That’s true.
Jeff:
Our rainbows had been risen. We’re now trying to figure out their strange scoring system which apparently…
Casey:
How do you have a game with a Highest Score table that does not, in any place in the game, tell you how your score is computed? I literally have no idea. We’ve played that game… We have perfect scores on every level. Well, not perfect scores… Perfect rescue rates, whatever you want to call it. But we have absolutely no idea how the score is computed. We’re even, like… We’re number 54…
Jeff:
37.
Casey:
Sorry, 37 on one of the Highest Scorers… We have no idea how our score is getting computed, none whatsoever.
Jeff:
No idea.
Casey:
So if someone wants to tell us from Q-Games, we would love to get higher scores. We have no idea what…
Jeff:
We’d also love to see the expansion pack.
Casey:
Yeah, expansion pack would be nice.
Jeff:
A little lovin’ for that.
Casey:
Absolutely.
Jeff:
So, yeah. No, that’s all been good. So, yeah. Game-wise for us, that’s… Both game and video, that’s been what we’ve done. So, yeah, that’s pretty amazing. I’m actually nervous every time we go to update system software that it will be fucked up, like they’re going to take the step and it’s going to be like, “No, no. We turned all that off.” No way, they can’t. But…
Casey:
Well, they already did downgrade once. Didn’t you say that it could play like Blu-ray files from a ripped Blu-ray disc. And then they got rid of that feature?
Jeff:
That’s true. I actually don’t know if they’ve gotten rid of it yet or not. I’ve never tried that yet.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
We should try that because I have a bunch of those ripped now and nothing to play them.
Casey:
You have the technology?
Jeff:
I have the time to rip all of those. I have not yet gotten the Blu-ray player to actually play those. But I play HD as I play the others. I haven’t got there yet. So… There is the weird thing on the interface which is the little thing up in the corner…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
That little PlayStation… The orange thing that’s like a different color scheme. It’s like, I don’t…
Casey:
Yes, it’s totally a separate thing. Well, there’s something interesting about that, too, which is that what it does by default when you’re on that screen is it shows scrolling news.
Jeff:
Scrolling news? Okay.
Casey:
So basically, it’s kind of like a new update…
Jeff:
Like an RSS thing?
Casey:
Something like that…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Like an RSS from Sony.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
So basically…
Jeff:
In a different front than the rest of the…
Casey:
Different color scheme, different font…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
There’s no consistency there or whatever.
Jeff:
It’s actually a window that hovers above the…
Casey:
Yes, it’s up there.
Jeff:
It’s behind the… It’s on top of the [ smoke ].
Casey:
Right. Now there is absolutely no screen real estate use by the media bar. I mean, it is using hardly any screen real estate.
Jeff:
Which is awesome.
Casey:
So then, they decided that the way to show news would be to show it in a 5-character wide window that you can’t really read up in the corner that you can’t get to.
Jeff:
So it’s like reading off a stock ticker.
Casey:
Yes, it’s like looking at the side of the Times Square building and waiting.
Jeff:
Yeah, and waiting…
Casey:
And it’s waiting for a message that you absolutely don’t want to hear like, “We shipped yet another undownloadable character for Pain,” which I have never played and, presumably, no one else has either.
Jeff:
I’ve never really looked at all the downloads or looking for Pixel Junk Monsters…
Casey:
There’s like 50,000 characters for Pain and no Pixel Junk levels, yeah.
Jeff:
Do we know what Pain is?
Casey:
I have no idea what Pain is, no.
Jeff:
We live a Pain-free existence.
Casey:
So you can actually get up to that thing. You have to go… There’s actually another button in the UI that’s in a totally different place that jumps you from the media bar which you interact with up to that thing in the corner.
Jeff:
So that’s where you get all the… Apparently, there’s a whole bunch of widgets and stuff up there that’s, like, clocks and revolving…
Casey:
I don’t know how to get the widgets. I don’t know how to do that.
Jeff:
There are some stuff. And in fact, I believe it was Q that did some of that work.
Casey:
The widgets, as well?
Jeff:
Yes, Pixel Junk widgets.
Casey:
Pixel Junk widgets? Awesome.
Jeff:
So, yeah, they’re…
Casey:
See, I don’t get the widgets thing, I have to be honest with you, because the widgets… Everybody wants… All the sort of systems software providers are falling all over themselves to provide widgets.
Jeff:
All about the widgets…
Casey:
It’s all about the widgets. Mac OS X now has all these widgets everywhere. Vista has widgets like crazy, widgets everywhere.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
It’s like you can’t get enough widgets now. The PS3 has widgets. I’m assuming that the Xbox 360 has a widget taskforce that is…
Jeff:
They’re hard at work.
Casey:
They’re hard at work right now.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
And yet, I don’t understand what the point of these widgets are. I mean, as far as I can tell, the only difference between a widget and a window is…
Jeff:
Okay, let’s say it together. Rounded windows.
Casey:
I mean, so it’s rounded. But I mean, yeah. It’s like this partially translucent…
Jeff:
That’s the widget.
Casey:
But what’s the point of the translucent area of a widget? What is the idea there?
Jeff:
There’s a very important… That’s where I’m going to put my other widgets.
Casey:
So it gives you more room for additional widgets.
Jeff:
Additional widgets, yeah.
Casey:
You can pack your widgets more tightly together.
Jeff:
I want hexagon widgets in the future so I can just pack…
Casey:
Totally pile up all widgets?
Jeff:
Totally. Penrose widgets all the way around. I would take an application that took normal… Other applications… And turn them into widgets.
Casey:
Awesome.
Jeff:
Like a widget wizard.
Casey:
Just cut out regions of the screen.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Like a little paintbrush, you could paint translucent sections.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
I don’t really need that part of Microsoft Word. So I’m just going to paint it out or stick something else behind it like a big clock.
Jeff:
Or just like a cookie cutter where you just stamp out your application and that’s what sticks. Way better than translucent, you know, like in Mac OS, you can actually turn each window down individually.
Casey:
Individually, yes.
Jeff:
Right, because it’s important to see while you’re typing…
Casey:
Multi-planes, yes.
Jeff:
All the shit behind it, yeah. So yeah, I want…
Casey:
Alright…
Jeff:
Well, even more irregular, you know… What’s beyond irregular? Super-irregular? Mega…
Casey:
I don’t know what could be more irregular than some of these widgets, though. I mean, it looks like they just have a full alpha mask on there, you can…
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
You know, they have absolutely everything. I guess, yeah, it’s possible that you could do something more advanced but I don’t know what it would be.
Jeff:
That’s fantastic.
Casey:
It is totally fantastic.
Jeff:
So the Xbox doesn’t have widgets.
Casey:
No. And the Xbox is falling behind, you know.
Jeff:
Yeah, they’re falling behind but they are ahead in… I’m sure the usability test… The blade system, massively corrects…
Casey:
Oh, yeah, because the blades… What they did now is they sort of had this… I guess they had this epiphany that the more ways you could scroll interfaces left to right, the better.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
So we’ve got blades. We’ve got just moving the highlight around from left to right on the screen sometimes, multiple comps…
Jeff:
Sub-blades…
Casey:
Sub-blades of blades… We’ve got this new… Sort of another stock ticker-y kind of thing with just categories that we can flip through.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And then they just said… Someone just went, “Fuck it. You know what, let’s just also have this other screen that just shows game boxes and you can pick them like normal buttons, like widgets, no blades on it…
Jeff:
I say no blades…
Casey:
There’s no scrolls, nothing, no scrolling at all. It’s just that’s what it’s going to be.
Jeff:
I think it’s awesome if you sit there with the controller in your hand and you go “right, right, right” and then you go “left, left, left”, you can…
Casey:
No, you don’t get back to the same place, no. You’ll be anywhere
Jeff:
Right. You might be on a different blade. You might be on a different part and you probably bought something.
Casey:
Probably.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
It’s possible.
Jeff:
For some amount of points that there’s… It’s not a rational… You know, you can’t represent it as a rational real number, the conversion from points to Dollars which is important when you go like, “Oh, it’s 700 Points. What’s that again? Oh, right, it’s a picocent.”
Casey:
Did they have our points… So the points vary with currency. If you have 1,500 Microsoft Points…
Jeff:
That would be awesome.
Casey:
How does that work?
Jeff:
When the Dollar dropped, it’s like… No, it’s now 1,800 Points.
Casey:
Yeah, does that happen? I don’t know what happens.
Jeff:
That would be awesome.
Casey:
So the thing is, I think you could actually make a reasonable game out of that Microsoft UI, right?
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
It could be something like sort of a [inaudible 11:00]
Jeff:
Where in the world are the games that I buy? Damn it.
Casey:
[inaudible 11:01] How do I find the games I bought? Like something where it sort of shows you a screen…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And then it puts you back at the start, the boot up. And you have to try and find where that screen is in the interface with a certain amount of time. You have 10 seconds to get to the screen.
Jeff:
And heaven forbid in those 10 seconds, you go to the video screen and it starts blipping in the titles like… And I have a fast connection… This is like… I’m not getting screwed on my byte.
Casey:
This is like full on, full pipe, 6 megabit down.
Jeff:
This is good action and you’re just like… And it’s… I don’t know, the GIF is probably 100 bytes and they’re coming in really slowly and they blip in so you can get the full screen. You’re like, “Oh, thank God.”
Casey:
Yeah. But you’re not sure. You’re not sure if you did get the full screen, right, or the full list?
Jeff:
Yeah, right. But if you scroll down, you can catch up to the… ‘Cos it’s in the background and you’re like, “Well, okay, I’m going to take the freaking hit. They’re all going to blip in. It’s going to be awesome.”
Casey:
And then I’ll [ never have to do this again. ]
Jeff:
If you go off that screen for one second, it’s like, “Oops, I hit the left button,” which normally means left… No, it’s a blade…
Casey:
Or you play a game. You play the game.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
You play the game, you came back… Like, I downloaded some Xbox Live Arcade title. It sucked. So you come back and you want to delete it.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
But it’s not there. And you have no idea when it’s going to… Yeah. It’s kind of like a sock drawer interface. It’s like, you open up this drawer and you’re rooting around for your games like, “Oh, I think it’s in here somewhere. I know I’ve got it. Where is it?”
Jeff:
It’s a sock drawer with a false bottom because I have downloaded stuff into my drawer and I can’t find it.
Casey:
You can’t find it again.
Jeff:
Yeah. I cannot find it. So, it’s awesome.
Casey:
It’s pretty amazing.
Jeff:
I don’t understand when you have the games you own why it… Because…
Casey:
I don’t know.
Jeff:
It’s sitting there.
Casey:
And this is the hard drive version.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
So it’s like they didn’t even have to worry about, like, it’s a memory card and so and so. Thse are the hard drive versions and it still doesn’t work.
Jeff:
It’s awesome. I heard it’s actually going to get better soon.
Casey:
Oh, I’m sure it’s going to get way worse.
Jeff:
Way worse, yes.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Everybody’s saying it’s ridiculous.
Casey:
Well, now, it’s going to be like each game is going to be its own 3D art or something. It’s going to take 10 times longer to bloop in…
Jeff:
Apparently they’ve taken the blades to a new level of blade-age.
Casey:
Awesome. Maybe you can go in more of a continuous movement through blades — side to side, left, right forward, backwards, up, down…
Jeff:
They’re going to… I just… No, I wouldn’t even think cardinal directions are enough for the possible…
Casey:
Just continuous blade rotation?
Jeff:
Yes, continuous blade rotation.
Casey:
Awesome. Oh, kind of like the mass effect interface where there’s, like, 8,000 things in a circle and you have to kind of delicately select just one particular one.
Jeff:
Yeah, totally.
Casey:
That would be awesome. Maybe they can get BioWare to do it, too.
Jeff:
Same team, yeah.
Casey:
Yeah, that would be perfect.
Jeff:
It’s going to be awesome.
Casey:
Well, they have the same… Actually, now I think about it, BioWare and Microsoft are totally synergistic in that way because BioWare’s interfaces also have totally random button assignments and totally random concepts in and out. Like, sometimes, one button gets you back out of a screen. And sometimes, it’s another one. So, yeah, if they could form a great UI design team there, it would be perfect.
Jeff:
It would be an entire UI based on a 20-sided dice. It’s like, “Oh, right, didn’t work this time. Try again. No, you still didn’t roll it.” It would be all based on huge percentages.
Casey:
Awesome.
Jeff:
Yeah. No, that will be good action. So, I guess we’ve been Pixel Junk Monster-ing…
Casey:
Yep.
Jeff:
And we played Portal together.
Casey:
We did play Portal together.
Jeff:
You manned the controls. I got massively nauseous.
Casey:
That’s right.
Jeff:
John got a little nauseous, John Miles was watching us.
Casey:
And he got nauseous.
Jeff:
He got nauseous. He was… I just laid down and kind of didn’t want you play whereas john still stood behind you. He just… It was like he was at the sauna and he didn’t want to make contact with the naked fat man.
Casey:
He didn’t want to look to the urinal next him kind of thing.
Jeff:
He was kind of holding his chin and looking up.
Casey:
Yep.
Jeff:
And it was like he was thinking about Portal but not looking at it.
Casey:
Not looking at it, don’t look…
Jeff:
Yeah. No, it kind of leads into what I want to talk about but… I mean, the game was okay. I thought the middle part, I didn’t… The searching for portable surfaces…
Casey:
It was alright, yeah.
Jeff:
A little too long… But absolutely exceptional writing and very good…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
I mean, humor’s hard to write…
Casey:
Perfect.
Jeff:
Way harder to write than normal stuff. They nailed that. They also nailed some really subtle emotional things where you felt bad for your cube. You did other stuff.
Casey:
Yeah, all the…
Jeff:
And they did that fast and… So really, really good writing. Big 2 thumbs up to them. That’s the Old Man Murray guys, right?
Casey:
Yeah, definitely.
Jeff:
Yeah. One of my favorite sites, ever. You can still now go choose a random page…
Casey:
And laugh your ass off, yeah.
Jeff:
It’s perfect. Yeah. They never did…
Casey:
Well, no, I think they did a great job with that but I don’t know. The thing is, game humor comes in 2 varieties — 1, of course, is intentional humor…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And that never happens except this one time.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
And the other one is unintentional humor. And that happens all the time.
Jeff:
Well, I think there’s 3.
Casey:
Okay. Narrow it down.
Jeff:
Okay, intentional humor. There’s intentional humor that misses badly.
Casey:
Okay, yeah.
Jeff:
And then there unintentional humor.
Casey:
It’s not intentional humor at that point. It’s intended humor, perhaps.
Jeff:
Okay, intended humor. Okay, I like… Intentional humor, intended humor, and then unintentional humor…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Games do the unintentional humor so much better than they do everything else.
Casey:
Yes. Well, Clive Barker…
Jeff:
Right…
Casey:
Being the undisputed king of unintentional humor…
Jeff:
The Jericho…
Casey:
Clive Barker’s Jericho…
Jeff:
The introduction where…
Casey:
The trailer, the Xbox trailer for Clive Barker’s Jericho… I’ll put a link up.
Jeff:
It’s insane.
Casey:
Yeah. It is the best thing ever. You will laugh your ass off the whole time, guaranteed.
Jeff:
It just keeps coming. And when you think you’ve seen it all…
Casey:
It’s got more.
Jeff:
It’s got more
Casey:
Yeah. Every thing you could possibly think of that’s a stupid cliché that you’ve seen a hundred times before that you have no interest in seeing again is all mushed into one game…
Jeff:
Well, it’s…
Casey:
It starts off with a baby in a diaper somehow. Somehow, it starts off with a baby in a diaper…
Jeff:
God’s fallen… God’s mistake… Because there’s Biblical. There’s science. There’s…
Casey:
It’s like the baby from 3D studio, like the dancing baby.
Jeff:
Yes, but he’s [ brown ]. Yes.
Casey:
That is what it starts out with.
Jeff:
Totally.
Casey:
But he’s an evil dance… He’s like the evil 3D studio baby.
Jeff:
He only…
Casey:
And then it only gets better from there, yeah.
Jeff:
It’s awesome. And by putting… I think your way of putting it that’s best is… The more is…
Casey:
Oh, “’less is more’ is less”.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
Is there opinion. It’s like… So it’s just about more is more…
Jeff:
Because it’s all in there.
Casey:
Yeah. Why get complicated? Why say less is more? That’s something to think about.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
More is obviously more. That’s why it’s more, right? So just go with that.
Jeff:
It doesn’t even make any sense to say less is more.
Casey:
Yeah, it’s way less.
Jeff:
So it’s more is less is more. Wait…
Casey:
No, it’s “’less is more’ is less”.
Jeff:
Okay. “Less is more” is less.
Casey:
And more is more.
Jeff:
Just more.
Casey:
Just more.
Jeff:
More.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Clive Barker is more.
Casey:
Clive Barker is more. That would be awesome.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
But I think, as I usually point out, we shouldn’t make too much fun of Clive Barker.
Jeff:
Yes. He is a fan of games.
Casey:
He is into games unlike other sort of… Other media people who maybe think that games are lame…
Jeff:
Yeah. He debated Ebert.
Casey:
He debated Ebert, that’s right. And that’s always a plus.
Jeff:
You can’t give him too much trouble but, boy, that trailer…
Casey:
That trailer was amazing.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
It was amazing, yeah.
Jeff:
I don’t know how much creative control he had over Jericho. I don’t if like…
Casey:
Yeah, me neither.
Jeff:
Maybe they were taking notes and he was saying, “Here’s some ideas…”
Casey:
Yeah, and they put them all…
Jeff:
And they just put them all in because that’s what it is…
Casey:
That’s entirely possible.
Jeff:
Yes. I have no idea. He could have designed the entire game. Creative control could have been limited to where he cashed the check. The spectrum there is wide.
Casey:
Could be…
Jeff:
Yes, okay. So then there’s the intended humor games which there used to be more of. There used to be Leisure Suit Larry games…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
There were a fair… A lot of the Lucas games that actually hit…
Casey:
That’s true. Like Sneaker Monkey Islands had…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
[inaudible 18:53] those funny stuff in there…
Jeff:
Right, Day of the Tentacle, all those.
Casey:
Yeah, oh, Day of the Tentacle Good game.
Jeff:
Good game. Great game. But most of that, especially the Leisure Suit Larry games and even Duke Nukem, the last one…
Casey:
Yeah, sorry, I don’t follow…
Jeff:
Duke Nukem 1900th century…
Casey:
Something, yeah.
Jeff:
So anyway, the last…
Casey:
Wait, there’s a Victorian Duke Nukem?
Jeff:
No, that was just when the last version came out.
Casey:
Oh, okay. Sorry.
Jeff:
Okay, it’s like steam punk computers, that’s why we can’t play it.
Casey:
Awesome.
Jeff:
So, yeah. So, they kind of go for… It’s nostalgic to play them because there’s a lot of emulators and stuff like that. Now, because there’s this thing where they were basically designed for 12-year old humor. And don’t get me wrong, I’m all about…
Casey:
I’m all about the 12-year old humor, as well.
Jeff:
Yes. I mean, as much of poop and pee jokes. I’m down with that.
Casey:
You can’t go wrong.
Jeff:
No, you can’t go wrong. But the problem is that if you play them now, what’s happening… And I don’t think this is solely because I’m older. I think it also has to do a little bit with the fact that what a 12-year old laughs at today is not what a 12-year old laughed at 20 years ago.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
So it’s got the double going on…
Casey:
Dated 12-year old humor.
Jeff:
Dated 12-year old humor. So it’s like, now, the things that a 12-year old might laugh at like Kevin Smith stuff or…
Casey:
Superbad.
Jeff:
Superbad would be an excellent example… The writing is so less clever and so less meta than those kinds of stuff…
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
That it just stands out in its… Not its age group. It’s like there isn’t an age group any longer where that kind of humor is appropriate for…
Casey:
Yes, it doesn’t have a niche any longer.
Jeff:
Yes. So I don’t know. Maybe… I believe they’re making a new one, a new Leisure Suit. And Duke Nukem Forever is…
Casey:
Now, the last one they made, was that successful? Why are they making another Leisure Suit Larry?
Jeff:
I don’t know how well it did. Maybe there’s a lot of 12-year old 50-year old people.
Casey:
You got me.
Jeff:
I don’t know. They did do one…
Casey:
It’s not something people… There’s a fair number of games out there that people are clamoring for. And people are always saying like, “Oh, I wish they’d make a sequel to…” I have never seen someone say, “I really they’d make a sequel to Leisure Suit Larry 8,” or whatever it was the last one that Al Lowe did.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Or Sierra before they imploded.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
So I don’t know why they would resurrect that one but I guess they did and I guess they’re going strong with it.
Jeff:
Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, you could… I could imagine a script that would be funny with Leisure Suit Larry especially if they played to the 12-year old thing…
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like, he still is stuck in that 1986 12-year old and, like, hey, nowadays 12-year old see everything on the internet…
Casey:
Well, because the game was about an anachronism to begin with.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
The whole leisure suit and the gold chain and everything but out of the seventies so…
Jeff:
But I’m not optimistic.
Casey:
I’m not optimistic, either.
Jeff:
And I don’t know. Duke Nukem, when it comes out, it may be fresh humor or it may just be, “Hey, laugh [inaudible 21:57]” It’s just, there was a little bit of naughtiness then, you know, when you were like Leisure Suit Larry and these little tiny pixelated breasts that now, even 12-year olds, that’s like, “Dude…” You know, “I saw worse than that from my mom this morning.”
Casey:
Oh, dude…
Jeff:
It’s just not impressive.
Casey:
Oh, man. You had a very interesting upbringing.
Jeff:
Yeah. I’m just saying, man, they’re forwarding… You know, it’s on the family homepage. It’s just not the way it should go.
Casey:
That’s true.
Jeff:
So, you know…
Casey:
You have to be careful which links he clicks on in the Flicker family album at this point.
Jeff:
Yeah, exactly because it’s all out there.
Casey:
It’s like, “Oh, whoops! Mom’s college days.”
Jeff:
It’s all out there.
Casey:
Didn’t want to go there but…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Yep.
Jeff:
You know what, never tape yourself naked. Never.
Casey:
Yes, never do it.
Jeff:
Never ever. You know what, you’ll think you’re going to delete it. You don’t delete it. You think you’re going to get rid of those pictures. They’re just on the camera. No.
Casey:
Nope.
Jeff:
It doesn’t matter. So yeah, don’t do it. Unless you’re pretty.
Casey:
Sage advice, Jeff.
Jeff:
Unless you’re really pretty…
Casey:
Then send it to the podcast email.
Jeff:
Yeah, send it to podcast@mollywrecker.com.
Casey:
Yep.
Jeff:
So yeah. I don’t know. I mean, that’s why I like Portal. The humor was intelligent.
Casey:
Yeah, it works.
Jeff:
And subtle.
Casey:
And it was new, fresh…
Jeff:
Yeah, it was new. So…
Casey:
Totally agree.
Jeff:
We want… I mean, that’s something that… I don’t know the game that would be improved with a better at it, you know… A better view of its place… And purpose in entertaining people, certainly… Way more games take themselves…
Casey:
Way too seriously.
Jeff:
Way too seriously.
Casey:
Absolutely.
Jeff:
Especially if you were really to cut it down to what the essence of the game is. You’re really not trying to…
Casey:
So speaking of essence, let’s talk about Hell Gates.
Jeff:
Hell Gates, okay. I love… Okay, the invention of Hell Gates is one of my favorite…
Casey:
Landmarks in computer entertainment.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
The invention of the Hell Gate.
Jeff:
Right. You just drop them in, monsters come out. It’s like it’s as good as a Nazi. You have to have Nazis…
Casey:
Yes. Then the reason that they invented the Hell Gate was they’d already used the Nazis, right. They had Wolfenstein 3D…
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
And it was like, “We’re going to need something for you to fight that’s not a Nazi…”
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
And the Hell Gate is perfect because what the Hell Gate lets you do is it lets you totally ignore the part of your design process that would have had you explain why there’s something to fight, right?
Jeff:
’Cos there’s a Hell Gate.
Casey:
’Cos it’s like, “Okay, where are we? I don’t know.” We can make up anywhere that we are and the Hell Gate connects you from that location…
Jeff:
To another.
Casey:
Where nothing is unusual…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
To hell where there’s tons of monsters to fight and demons. And they’re just angry. Why are they angry at you? Who knows.
Jeff:
Shit is hitting the fan in hell.
Casey:
Yes, exactly.
Jeff:
And they’re angry.
Casey:
Yeah, it’s a Hell Gate.
Jeff:
Yeah, it’s a Hell Gate.
Casey:
It’s a Hell Gate. It’s perfect. So it allows you to use any setting that you want. And here comes the Hell Gate and the monsters come in.
Jeff:
Now, Doomed 3 was on Mars, right?
Casey:
No, Doomed 1, the original Doomed, was on Mars.
Jeff:
Oh, so they’ve always been Mars?
Casey:
Doom 3…
Jeff:
Well, what the Hell Gates doing… Does it zap between hell and earth?
Casey:
Yes. I think they got it. They were one of the earlier Hell Gate games, right?
Jeff:
So [inaudible 25:12]
Casey:
So they didn’t realize that you could just have one excuse why there would be people there.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
So they thought, you know, outer space is one because obviously there’s things to fight in outer space because outer space is colonized the giant bugs and evil alien races…
Jeff:
Fucking aliens.
Casey:
And so on.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
There’s tons of aliens.
Jeff:
Yep.
Casey:
And then, Hell Gate is, of course, something to fight because hell is populated with angry demons that oftentimes take more than 1 bullet to kill, very important…
Jeff:
Yeah, child molesters…
Casey:
Yeah. So they put it in space and open to Hell Gate figuring there’s no way this can fail.
Jeff:
Another double…
Casey:
There’s no way this can fail…
Jeff:
And it’s… Yes.
Casey:
And since then, we’ve had refinements of that…
Jeff:
More.
Casey:
More is always more. And one refinement we’ve had with that process, obviously, is… Recent game that came out…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Just called Hell Gate.
Jeff:
So they just dispensed.
Casey:
They got rid of the whole thing of like, there’s sort of an actual environment and then there’s a Hell Gate and that’s a thing. It’s just like, “No, no. The important part is the Hell Gate.”
Jeff:
It’s the Hell Gate. Which is true.
Casey:
So why do we name games after other stuff that’s not the Hell Gate? Because the Hell Gate is the thing.
Jeff:
I agree.
Casey:
Hell Gate.
Jeff:
Hell Gate. Okay.
Casey:
The odd thing about this game… I believe the full name is Hell Gate London…
Jeff:
Hell Gate London, okay.
Casey:
The odd thing is…
Jeff:
So is the city the Hell Gate? Or is the…
Casey:
Unclear… No, that’s Clive Barker’s Jericho. In Clive Barker’s Jericho, the whole city is the Hell Gate, I believe.
Jeff:
You’re telling me in Jericho, there’s a Hell Gate?
Casey:
Oh, of course.
Jeff:
More.
Casey:
The Hell Gate was just like a preamble thing.
Jeff:
I see…
Casey:
Like, obviously there’s going to be a Hell Gate.
Jeff:
Are there Italian plumbers in Jericho?
Casey:
Obviously there’s going to be nano-machines. Obviously there’s going to be…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Guns that are so heavy that they require counterbalancing on the person… All of those things were just obviously going to be in there. And then, they started from there and went forward.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
But in a more normal game like Hell Gate London, I think they…
Jeff:
This sounds like the best game every.
Casey:
Okay. It may well be.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
But here’s the strange part. And [inaudible 27:10] because I have not played this game…
Jeff:
Okay. What kind of game is it?
Casey:
I was just going to say I believe it is an MMO.
Jeff:
It’s an MMO, alright.
Casey:
So I believe that it is Hell Gate London and it is massively multi-player.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
You don’t play by yourself.
Jeff:
Can you play as the Hell Gate, then?
Casey:
I think you can probably play as the Hell Gate. I don’t see why not.
Jeff:
I would love to play as the Hell Gate. Okay.
Casey:
Yes, sure, play as the Hell Gate.
Jeff:
And you just run around as the Hell Gate? What can you do…
Casey:
No, Hell Gate’s… Have you played games? Hell Gates don’t move.
Jeff:
Okay, you’re playing as the Hell Gate. What can you do?
Casey:
Open. Close.
Jeff:
Okay. Command line interface.
Casey:
Open and close, no, they’re icons. Open and close the Hell Gate. Move something from hell to earth and move something from earth to hell. That’s what a Hell Gate does. It doesn’t move…
Jeff:
Okay so you’re saying if you’re playing as a Hell Gate operator… You’re just…
Casey:
You’re not the Hell Gate operator. You’re just the Hell Gate.
Jeff:
Well, you’re basically an elevator operator, then.
Casey:
In some sense, yes. Okay, yes, you’re a demon conveyor. That’s what you do, yes.
Jeff:
Awesome.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Okay. But I think you should be able to move the Hell Gate around like chase players around.
Casey:
How could you move the Hell Gate? When was the last time you played a video game and you got to the last level and you’re ready to close the Hell Gate and it runs away?
Jeff:
[28:23]
Casey:
Like, what? Does it grow legs?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
“Oh, chase down the Hell Gate! It’s getting away.”
Jeff:
“Shit, the Hell Gate’s getting away.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And it’s dropping shit out…
Casey:
Because it’s running too fast and the…
Jeff:
Yeah, exactly. And stuff’s coming out in hell that it’s not…
Casey:
Things you don’t normally send out of hell…
Jeff:
Right, bolders…
Casey:
Like filing cabinets full of the souls that were there…
Jeff:
Yeah, exactly, all that stuff.
Casey:
How does it move? Does it have legs? Running away?
Jeff:
Flower pots.
Casey:
Flower pots?
Jeff:
Yeah. Because, you know…
Casey:
That is ridiculous. No. That doesn’t happen in games. Hell Gates don’t move. Everyone knows that Hell Gates don’t move. They only open and close.
Jeff:
No, grappling hook… No, it’s awesome. It will be like, you know, in Alice in Wonderland where the cards have little legs. That’s you.
Casey:
There’s a little sort of swirling, fiery doom portal with these two little muscle-y legs coming out of it.
Jeff:
I would totally play as the Hell Gate.
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
You do that. You can sign as the Hell Gate.
Jeff:
What happens if one of your Hell Gates jumps into another Hell Gate? Does it evaporate?
Casey:
Yeah. This is the kind of game play they’re going to have in there, I’m sure.
Jeff:
Oh, man. Okay.
Casey:
They’re going to address those kinds of questions.
Jeff:
That actually sounds like a really good game.
Casey:
It’s like Portal, at that point, yeah.
Jeff:
I mean, this is really silly and stuff but, hey, taking stuff out is probably good. It’s the essence of Hell Gate-ing.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
So hey, party on with your little Hell Gate. Hell Gate is… Yes, it is the triangle game as Chris Hecker would say.
Casey:
Everything starts with a Hell Gate, yeah.
Jeff:
Yes. And Portal…
Casey:
Fundamental.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Portal is just a Hell Gate that you’re already in Hell. So when you open the gate, it’s there still.
Jeff:
Yep, it’s awesome.
Casey:
It’s like it just comes back to you.
Jeff:
They should have just called it Hell Gate.
Casey:
Yeah, The Hell Gate Gun.
Jeff:
I totally love the Hell Gate Gun. That is awesome. So, what was the other game we’ve been playing or reading about?
Casey:
Oh, Army of 2 is the one that I wanted to talk about.
Jeff:
Army of 2, yeah. Let’s talk about Army of 2.
Casey:
Army of 2… So I…
Jeff:
Best video, ever.
Casey:
Yeah, it was an amazing video.
Jeff:
Yes.
Casey:
What I would say about Army of 2 is, personally, I think that games have an opportunity as a modern medium to not do the same thing that film and TV did.
Jeff:
Which is?
Casey:
Which is when they first introduced gay characters as something that occurs in a film or TV, they just introduce them as these totally over-the-top stereotypical flamboyant gay people…
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Which not all gay people are right?
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
But that’s all that was interesting, right, to Hollywood was you had to be… You couldn’t just be a normal character but you happen to be gay. You had to be, like, a gay character. And that was a thing.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
And so, games could have just ignored that whole trend and just started having gay characters. “Oh, there’s gay characters. Maybe some of them are flamboyant. Maybe some of them are regular. They’re normal game characters who just happen to be gay.”
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
But no, here we come…
Jeff:
Okay, one second… So how do you know there haven’t been lots of gay characters?
Casey:
Well, you know, it’s addressed in the game in some way.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Like, that guy happens to talk about the fact that he’s attracted to another man or something.
Jeff:
So here’s a war. They’ll be like, “Oh, man…”
Casey:
Maybe, yeah. And it doesn’t have to be explicit. They don’t have to have gay sex in the middle of the game but just the fact that the character is gay, right?
Jeff:
No, they do.
Casey:
Well, right, yeah. Maybe.
Jeff:
I would have to see that happen in Gears of War.
Casey:
Okay. That would be very interesting.
Jeff:
They spend a lot of time in jail.
Casey:
And you know what, they’re in a helicopter getting from place to place…
Jeff:
Yeah, totally.
Casey:
Sure. Okay. But…
Jeff:
Whenever I ride a helicopter…
Casey:
Here we come with our first (that I know of) game that has obviously gay characters…
Jeff:
Okay, now, we have to say we don’t know if… I mean, they’re not like, “Hey, these are gay characters.” We’re assuming from the video.
Casey:
It looks to me like someone sat down and said, “We’re going to make the most flamboyantly gay character as we can for this video game,” and it’s kind of offensive. They’re in masks. They’re wearing S&M masks like these weird fucked up scary masks on their head the whole time. They are parachuting on each other's backs. They're lifting each other's crotches up over walls.
Jeff:
The climbing is awesome.
Casey:
It is unbelievable. I mean, it’s just… I don’t know why you had to do that. Why couldn’t they just be gay if you want them to be gay? You don’t have to be…
Jeff:
Okay. By offensive, you mean awesome because that video is awesome.
Casey:
Well, yeah, okay. It is an awesome video.
Jeff:
Here’s the thing…
Casey:
And if there were other gay characters in games, it would just be cool that there was other gay characters that happen to be flamboyant. That’s fine.
Jeff:
Yeah. I know exactly what you’re saying. I mean, for all we know, this is completely subversive by the designers and we’re semi out-ing their characters.
Casey:
Oh, you think they were trying to be subtle? You think they were being subtle?
Jeff:
The wall-climbing thing was a little much. I mean, it felt a little Ace & Gary, yes.
Casey:
When your buddy… When your partner…
Jeff:
Okay, you’re calling it a partner… Okay.
Casey:
When your partner is wounded, you take out a tampon. What is the… This is ridiculous. It’s totally blatant.
Jeff:
No, it’s not called that.
Casey:
Yes, there’s videos where they’re like, “I’m going to heal my partner with a tampon.”
Jeff:
With a tampon?
Casey:
What do they think… Have these people ever met a gay person? What are they thinking? It’s ridiculous. It’s totally ridiculous.
Jeff:
Okay, what’s the tampon for?
Casey:
I have no idea.
Jeff:
Is it clotting like you put it in a wound?
Casey:
I guess. What’s a tampon normally for? It soaks up blood.
Jeff:
I don’t want to talk about that. But in the game…
Casey:
Yes, I guess.
Jeff:
Okay. And it’s, like, how you administer health? Like…
Casey:
Well, you revive the fallen teammates. The teammate goes down. It enshrouds the screaming in blackens. And it shows one partner standing over the other partner…
Jeff:
And inserting a tampon?
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
And it shows a little tampon graphic and it gets progressively more red. It’s like a tampon mini game. It’s a tampon mini game. It’s a tampon mini game.
Jeff:
Wow.
Casey:
That’s what they call it, anyway.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
No, that’s pretty… So here’s my question. Does that work in real life? Like…
Casey:
I guess. I don’t know.
Jeff:
See, because we only get.
Casey:
I don’t know where they this idea from.
Jeff:
We only get our facts from video games.
Casey:
Bad gay stereotypes, basically, is where they got it from, I guess.
Jeff:
Well, we only get our facts from video games. So that means when we run across somebody that got hit by a car…
Casey:
Yes, we’ll use a tampon.
Jeff:
You’re going to start inserting tampons, yeah…
Casey:
Just pack the guy in tampons, you know…
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Maybe you’ll go into a toxic shock but maybe you’ll stop the bleeding.
Jeff:
The ambulance is going to pull over and go, “What the fuck is this?” And you’re like, “Dude, I’m glad you’re here. I’m running out. We don’t have enough tampons. Come on.”
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And we have no Band-Aids at all. We only carry tampons. What are you doing carrying those around? “Well someone might get hurt.”
Casey:
For all you know, it’s in the government’s readiness kit. Like, one roll of duct tape, 5 packs of tampons…
Jeff:
Wow.
Casey:
You know, just things you need in case of emergency.
Jeff:
And that’s in the game?
Casey:
That’s in the game.
Jeff:
Okay, that’s all.
Casey:
I’ll post it a link. I’ll put a link with this thing. I’ll put a link to the tampon mini game.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
There’s a video of that, sure.
Jeff:
Again, I’m saying, “Awesome.”
Casey:
Alright.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
It’s fine, awesome.
Jeff:
Awesome-ness. Awesome.
Casey:
So you’re saying this is a metacritic 100.
Jeff:
We’re saying more humor, more extreme gay-ness… And you want more…
Casey:
No, I want more regular, realistic gay-ness, not ridiculous gay-ness in games.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Showers? Do we want to see showering?
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
I mean, I’m trying to get your… You know, everybody’s meter is different. Showering, no. Okay. Tampons, yes.
Casey:
You can put anything you want in. Just how about some regular gay characters is all I’m saying.
Jeff:
Okay. Just regular gay characters, just playing the game…
Casey:
Dumbledore, there you go.
Jeff:
Dumbledore?
Casey:
The Harry Potter games already have a gay character in them. You know he’s gay, right…
Jeff:
But I didn’t until recently.
Casey:
So that was good. That’s a plus.
Jeff:
I suppose so.
Casey:
Normal character, he’s gay. Good.
Jeff:
Alright. He’s an old guy.
Casey:
Sure.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
Yeah, maybe harder for me if I’d have been gay in 1920.
Jeff:
Yeah, that’s true.
Casey:
Or maybe it was easier in 1920. 1940…
Jeff:
Yeah, it’s true. Yeah, he hooked up with Oscar Wilde and Clive Barker.
Casey:
Clive Barker.
Jeff:
Okay, so we’re… Alright… So yes, the Metacritic 100 thing…
Casey:
I don’t really know much about this.
Jeff:
Yeah, so I was…
Casey:
This is something you’ve been talking about.
Jeff:
Yes. I went to GGC recently. You didn’t go.
Casey:
No, I did not. I try not to go every year. And this year, I succeeded for the 2nd time ever. I think it may be one other year.
Jeff:
Hung me out to dry.
Casey:
That’s what I’m all about.
Jeff:
Yup.
Casey:
I told you not to go.
Jeff:
I know you did. And I did. And I went anyway. But I did learn this… I learned this awesomeness which is now… Metacritic ratings are an adjective. You just describe, like, “Hey, my game… Yeah, it’s not quite done. There are parts that are Metacritic 100 and other parts that are Metacritic 60.” They use it like this is a thing.
Casey:
Awesome.
Jeff:
It’s not like this is somebody inventing something. Everybody talks like this.
Casey:
Wow.
Jeff:
Yes. So billions of Dollars of our industry is riding on this…
Casey:
On Metacritic?
Jeff:
Metacritic, yes, that this strange rating system, binary where people in the middle of nowhere that absolutely love [inaudible 37:21] or something or deciding, like…
Casey:
And it’s a huge galaxy in blur, right?
Jeff:
Oh, totally.
Casey:
It’s just like this giant average of everyone stuck together.
Jeff:
I talked to somebody who is trying to get bridge financing of several million Dollars. They are requiring him to pay it back if their next game doesn’t get an 85 Metacritic.
Casey:
That’s ridiculous. How can you guarantee your Metacritic score? That’s just ridiculous.
Jeff:
I have no idea. Yes. But it should be used all parts of speech, all walks of life…
Casey:
Alright, that’s Metacritic.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
Yo, man. That’s Metacritic. Alright.
Jeff:
That’s what, like, a normal adjective or adverb is just the verb. This one has a scaler built right into it.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
So if you say…
Casey:
It’s a Metacritic 90…
Jeff:
Yeah. And go like, “Oh, man. I was walking Metacritically 65 yesterday. I kept tripping.”
Casey:
It seems like all games on Metacritic are between 70 and 100. So it’s one of those things kind of like Go Rankings where there’s the rankings and they have to sort of make a new ranking for the high echelon because there wasn’t enough resolution. Are they going to rescale Metacritic at some points to that you just take 70 to 100?
Jeff:
Where’s Jericho falling in that old scale?
Casey:
I have no idea.
Jeff:
Okay. Army of 2, 100.
Casey:
Jericho is 100%. What does it not have in that game?
Jeff:
More is more.
Casey:
More is way more.
Jeff:
Alright. So let’s talk real quick. Pitch me a Metacritic 100 game. Give me your best shot here. I’ll be your critical Parker.
Casey:
Well, I think that if there’s one thing that’s true, it’s that critics like sequels.
Jeff:
Yeah, of course.
Casey:
A lot.
Jeff:
Yeah. Built-in set of people, ready to review it.
Casey:
Absolutely. Gotta have sequels.
Jeff:
Yep. Gotta have sequels.
Casey:
Gotta be a sequel something. And also, I think hip, modern…
Jeff:
Urban…
Casey:
Urban, cool…
Jeff:
Alright. Does urban just mean black? I gotta ask.
Casey:
No. Urban means…
Jeff:
Am I urban? I’m pretty white.
Casey:
How often do I try to get you to come in to the city? You only come to get good ramen. That’s it.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
That’s not urban at all.
Jeff:
I’m a loser.
Casey:
Yeah. You’re not urban. You’re suburban.
Jeff:
Suburban?
Casey:
It means below urban, in case you’re wondering.
Jeff:
Can’t I be semi-urban?
Casey:
Maybe.
Jeff:
Damn it. Semi-urban? Alright, give me that. I’ll take it.
Casey:
In this case, maybe it does mean black because what came to mind was Flow…
Jeff:
Flow, the downloadable game…
Casey:
Yes, the downloadable game, PlayStation… Did not get a proper sequel…
Jeff:
What do you mean proper?
Casey:
The team that’s doing it is doing it like a spiritual successor as opposed to a sequel to the game. There’s not going to be a Flow 2.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
There’s Flower.
Jeff:
Are you sure you’re pronouncing that right.
Casey:
I’m pretty sure. It’s a game about a flower.
Jeff:
Because it could be flow-er.
Casey:
It could be flow-er, yes.
Jeff:
And Flow-est could be the 3rd one.
Casey:
Yes, it could be Flow, Flower, and Flowest. But I don’t think so. I think it’s Flower because they show a field of flowers and so on in the trailer.
Jeff:
Okay. Alright, Flower.
Casey:
So there isn’t going to be a Flow 2 which is why I… My Metacritic 100 game is going to be Hustle and Flow.
Jeff:
Hustle and Flow? Okay, I love it.
Casey:
So you’re a pimp…
Jeff:
It’s hard out there for a pimp.
Casey:
It is hard out there for a pimp. I’m thinking you just have… But just a pimp head, right. Like, you don’t have a whole pimp. It’s just a pimp head. And trailing behind your pimp head is a line of bling.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
And you start off with just a pimp head and a line of bling and there are other pimps and they’ve actually got hoes.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
So what you have to do is you have to kind of go up on the side, right… You can’t go in front. You can’t go in the grill, if you will.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
You’ve got to go up on the side…
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
You’ve got to get from the side and steal a hoe.
Jeff:
Okay.
Casey:
And the more hoes you get, the bigger your stable gets, the bigger your bling line gates.
Jeff:
So it’s just as you add the hoes that you get more of a line.
Casey:
Yeah, because you know, everyone said exactly the same thing about Flow. They were like, “We really, really love this game play but the atmosphere is terrible.
Jeff:
Atmosphere is terrible.
Casey:
Atmosphere is terrible.
Jeff:
We get some Atlanta rap going…
Casey:
Exactly. So they were like, “You know what, perfect game play but we need that… We need to sort of modernize this to appeal to the kinds of people that are buying video games.”
Jeff:
I like it. It’s [ 2 and 4 ]?
Casey:
Yeah, Hustle and Flow.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
100% Metacritic, absolutely.
Jeff:
Terrence Howard does the voices, you’re saying…
Casey:
Yeah. I mean, I don’t know if you could get him…
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Yeah. They could probably get him if you were a THQ for the Scarface Games…
Jeff:
Okay, yeah. We’re going to talk…
Casey:
They obviously had to hook up. We’ll talk about Scarface a different day.
Jeff:
We will talk about the Scarface because I actually would like to play that, just have you experience that once and then we’ll talk about it. Yeah.
Casey:
Alright. Now, so do you have a Metacritic 100 idea for me or what?
Jeff:
I have one. Mine, you know, since I’m semi-urban, doesn’t have an urban flow at all.
Casey:
Okay. Yeah, I’ll be in charge of that. I’m urban. I’ll be in charge of the hip hop style.
Jeff:
Okay. So my game is Clive Barker’s Kool-Aid Guy. So it’s got a little…
Casey:
So this is like two licenses together. It’s an authorial license plus a brand name…
Jeff:
Something for the kids, yeah.
Casey:
First of all, EA would sign off on it because it has Kool-Aid on the title.
Jeff:
Totally.
Casey:
You don’t have to pitch any further. EA would be like, “Where do we sign up?”
Jeff:
“Stop right there.”
Casey:
“Stop right there.”
Jeff:
Kool-Aid guy… Yes.
Casey:
“You’re hired.”
Jeff:
Okay, so my Kool-Aid guy…
Casey:
So what’s the game?
Jeff:
The game is just like Portal. You’re looking for brick surfaces that you can break through, right.
Casey:
Yes.
Jeff:
Because, you know, you can’t go through all surfaces. Yeah, you might slosh.
Casey:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But Clivwith Barker has written fiction.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
So your normal… You’re like a nanotech scientist.
Casey:
Are you black Kool-Aid? Is the Kool-Aid dark in some way?
Jeff:
Like black raspberry?
Casey:
Yeah, just like it’s a dark color, like a foreboding. And maybe he’s got an evil face instead of…
Jeff:
I am so urban now, yeah.
Casey:
Oh, yeah.
Jeff:
Oh, yeah. Yeah, totally. So okay, you’re a nanotech scientist, right…
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
You’re a normal guy.
Casey:
Just a normal guy.
Jeff:
Something went wrong.
Casey:
Every man…
Jeff:
Something…
Casey:
Something goes wrong, okay…
Jeff:
It’s science run amok.
Casey:
It was a Kool-Aid experiment. You were trying to make better Kool-Aid and something went horribly wrong.
Jeff:
And you’re the Kool-Aid man.
Casey:
Now you’re the Kool-Aid man. So it’s like the Fly almost. You’ve transformed. The scientist becomes the Kool-Aid man.
Jeff:
Right. And so, your face is where the Kool-Aid man’s face is. Right.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
But you have special powers. You can break through any brick wall.
Casey:
Any brick wall…
Jeff:
You just go through right through.
Casey:
Right.
Jeff:
So everybody’s after you, right. That’s a powerful… You can break into banks or whatever.
Casey:
Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
Jeff:
So what happens is terrorists abduct your daughter, okay.
Casey:
Okay. And they want you to break through a wall for them or they’ll hurt her.
Jeff:
They want you to come work for them, right. So you have to go to the city to find your daughter as the Kool-Aid man where there’s like… There has to be a Hell Gate because the terrorists were trying to bring Saddam back, went wrong, now there’s demons. There’s not just terrorists. There’s demons and there’s terrorists, more is more…
Casey:
That’s true. More is definitely more.
Jeff:
Kool-Aid man…
Casey:
If you can get demons, terrorists…
Jeff:
And Kool-Aid…
Casey:
And Nazis together… That would be pretty awesome. I don’t know how that works. Time travel, which also Clive Barker’s Jericho does have, more is more…
Jeff:
It has time travel?
Casey:
Of course, it has time travel.
Jeff:
More is more. Wow.
Casey:
The entire city is a time machine.
Jeff:
Okay. I’m fine with that.
Casey:
I’m fine with that, as well.
Jeff:
Right.
Casey:
Because that way, you don’t have to get in the time machine which could be a real…
Jeff:
You don’t have to wait for the Kool-Aid to get cold.
Casey:
Nope.
Jeff:
It’s just… You travel forward an hour, Kool-Aid’s been chilled, ready to go. Weapons need work. I can think this is like straw, you can shoot…
Casey:
You can shoot up the Kool-Aid.
Jeff:
Yeah. But maybe it’s acid. I don’t know.
Casey:
Maybe, yeah.
Jeff:
I think you get Kool-Aid man, Cliver Barker, and Hell Gate in there…
Casey:
And you’re done.
Jeff:
And you’re done. You just stop right there. Say no more. You had me at Kool-Aid man, Hell Gate, and Clive Barker.
Casey:
Absolutely. I love it.
Jeff:
Yeah. Alright, so that’s our games, 100 percents, right. We accept nothing else.
Casey:
I don’t know whether or not the Kool-Aid man game is 100% or not. What I do know is that it’s instantly going to be signed. EA signs that Day 1.
Jeff:
You’re saying I have 100% signing potential.
Casey:
Right because there’s 2 things there, right.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Casey:
There’s the 100% Metacritic which EA will be interested in because they’ll sell copies. And then there’s the “We don’t give a fuck because Kool-Aid has to pay us a bunch of money…
Jeff:
That’s true.
Casey:
This could be the shittiest game that has every existed and we’re going to put that up…
Jeff:
Oh, yeah.
Casey:
Yeah, exactly. Oh, yeah.
Jeff:
And you don’t think we can send little packets of Kool-Aid to all the Metacritics and jut buy our way…
Casey:
Possible. It depends what you spike it with but yes.
Jeff:
Alright.
Casey:
There’s a long history of spiked Kool-Aids so that wouldn’t be… You know, I don’t think that would be frowned upon, certainly.
Jeff:
The Kool-Aid guy could be gay if you want.
Casey:
No.
Jeff:
Why not.
Casey:
He doesn’t have to be…
Jeff:
Why not? Saying he’s going to be…
Casey:
Are all gay people a giant Kool-Aid pitcher to you? What’s the deal with that?
Jeff:
Yeah, a little bit.
Casey:
I mean, it’s just normal… Yeah. Alright, fine.
Jeff:
Alright. And I think that’s about it, right? We talked about a lot of crazy stuff. Next week, we’ll talk about… You know, I think the Scarface thing… Scarface, I would love…
Casey:
We’re going to talk about Scarface, probably. Advertising games, we could probably talk about. We only touched about it today.
Jeff:
Advertising in games, scripting, we could do maybe. But I think the Scarface might take Clive Barker in the more is more category. I’ll have to…
Casey:
They certainly have a… They have a certain more is more appeal in Scarface.
Jeff:
Yeah. Alright. Well, thanks, everybody. You can email podcast@mollyrocket.com.
Casey:
Yeah, podcast@mollyrocket.com.
Jeff:
You can also post on the forums. And yeah, let’s know if you like it, if you should do lots more because we’re going to anyway because…
Casey:
Yeah, I think Jeff has said that this is going to be a long-running series. And since there is no actual cost to doing a podcast…
Jeff:
Now.
Casey:
Your apathy will not stop him.
Jeff:
Your apathy is meaningless to me.
Casey:
There is no way… Yeah.
Jeff:
Yes. In fact, the only thing I will say is there was so much time in getting this recording system…
Casey:
That it works… We’re going to do a ton of them whether you like it or not.
Jeff:
No, it’s either that or we’re going to start filming Casey doing porn. That’s it.
Casey:
Alright. But, that’s going to conflict with my ordinary porn filming schedule but alright…
Jeff:
That’s true. We’ll get an exception.
Casey:
Okay.
Jeff:
Alright, thanks, everybody. Okay, bye.
Casey:
Alright, bye.
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casey muratori
the jeff and casey show - season 1 - episode 1
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